Prospect Info: Round 2, Pick #50: Adam Ginning, D, Linkoping HC (SHL)

[TB87]

You're probably right but let's hope he's a cheap 3rd pair hard nosed d in the future.

There's value in being a hard-nosed defenseman. Winning battles is a very, very important skill. As far as the Flyers prospect pool goes, lefties like York+Zamula+Kalynuk+Millman are tracking to be more impactful potential NHL players (in more than 1 area). Such as skating, hockey sense, offensive ability, & overall puck skills.

Potential role players like Ginning have to be incredibly good in their specific roles to truly offer tangible value to an NHL team in order to offset their multiple deficiencies. Otherwise, there's a danger that a player of his ilk becomes ends up being a wasted roster spot.

 

[Starat327]

There's value in being a hard-nosed defenseman. Winning battles is a very, very important skill. As far as the Flyers prospect pool goes, lefties like York+Zamula+Kalynuk+Millman are tracking to be more impactful potential NHL players (in more than 1 area). Such as skating, hockey sense, offensive ability, & overall puck skills.

Potential role players like Ginning have to be incredibly good in their specific roles to truly offer tangible value to an NHL team in order to offset their multiple deficiencies. Otherwise, there's a danger that a player of his ilk becomes ends up being a wasted roster spot.

If you look up Robert Hagg in the dictionary, this is what it shows.

 

[Striiker]

Like Hagg.

Terrible at everything that matters and not even good at the meaningless thing he’s known for.

 

[hatcher]

If you look up Robert Hagg in the dictionary, this is what it shows.

With forward help he'll along with the rest will look alot better. Fletcher called out the forwards for a reason and thats back habits everywhere on the ice and the back check was terrible and lack of winger blocking shots.

 

[deadhead]

There's value in being a hard-nosed defenseman. Winning battles is a very, very important skill. As far as the Flyers prospect pool goes, lefties like York+Zamula+Kalynuk+Millman are tracking to be more impactful potential NHL players (in more than 1 area). Such as skating, hockey sense, offensive ability, & overall puck skills.

Potential role players like Ginning have to be incredibly good in their specific roles to truly offer tangible value to an NHL team in order to offset their multiple deficiencies. Otherwise, there's a danger that a player of his ilk becomes ends up being a wasted roster spot.

I think there's a prejudice toward good skating, puck handling defensemen these days that ignores defensive deficiencies.
TJ Brennan, anyone? MDZ. Ristolainen. Barrie. OEL. Girard.

For one thing, especially at lower levels where advanced stats are hard to find, guys who skate and score stand out, and their mistakes on the defensive end aren't as noticeable.
As offensive players rise, many can't translate scoring from lower levels to higher levels.

So I'd say the same holds true for Zamula, Kalynuk and Millman, unless they have plus defensive instincts (supposedly York does) they'd better be 30 point ES types to have value in the NHL - which means they also have to be very good in an offensive role.

 

[Starat327]

With forward help he'll along with the rest will look alot better. Fletcher called out the forwards for a reason and thats back habits everywhere on the ice and the back check was terrible and lack of winger blocking shots.

No. Robert Hagg's deficencies are not back-checking related. He's a poor defenseman with nothing in between his ears. He arrives to every play late and can not make decisions. the decisions he does make usually take him out of the play, exposing his D partner and the goalie to a HDSC.

If you want call out detriments to the team - it starts with Hagg.

 

[Striiker]

Does an imaginary lack of back-checking cause him to have stone hands or a cement head?

 

[Magua]

Post the Ginning WJC gif again, please.

LMAO. Get over yourself. You aren’t the only poster who watches hockey.

You must be fun at parties. You provide no commentary on his game, save for shallow Wikipedia copy and pastes, basing his hockey intelligence on an interview, and tireless appeals to authority. There is no there there to anything you say about the player. No finer points, no visual evidence, just blather. If you want to argue with people who can provide these things, don't play the martyr when called out.

If I had any confidence they were your own well-meaning thoughts, I wouldn't mind. I'd disagree, but I would do so respectfully. I don't think anyone needs to be shamed for their opinion. Any player or topic. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out this is par-for-the-course contrarian shtick because something something hive mind. Nothing you write exists in a vacuum.

Even if you had watched him and all this was in earnest and I'm someone who desperately needs to get over myself (very likely!), you've proven on countless occasions your hockey thoughts aren't worth much. But keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Starat327]

You must be fun at parties. You provide no commentary on his game, save for shallow Wikipedia copy and pastes, basing his hockey intelligence on an interview, and tireless appeals to authority. There is no there there to anything you say about the player. No finer points, no visual evidence, just blather.

If I had any confidence they were your own well-meaning thoughts, I wouldn't mind. I'd disagree, but I would do so respectfully. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out this is par-for-the-course contrarian shtick because something something hive mind. Nothing you write exists in a vacuum.

Even if you had watched him and all this was in earnest and I'm someone who desperately needs to get over myself (very likely!), you've proven on countless occasions your hockey thoughts aren't worth much.

 

[Striiker]

Wrong gif, that's Hagg.

 

[FlyguyOX]

I think there's a prejudice toward good skating, puck handling defensemen these days that ignores defensive deficiencies.
TJ Brennan, anyone? MDZ. Ristolainen. Barrie. OEL. Girard.

For one thing, especially at lower levels where advanced stats are hard to find, guys who skate and score stand out, and their mistakes on the defensive end aren't as noticeable.
As offensive players rise, many can't translate scoring from lower levels to higher levels.

So I'd say the same holds true for Zamula, Kalynuk and Millman, unless they have plus defensive instincts (supposedly York does) they'd better be 30 point ES types to have value in the NHL - which means they also have to be very good in an offensive role.

Literally Girard was better at defense than offense last season...

 

[FlyguyOX]

Brandon Carlo is what some people are projecting Ginning to be.

 

[deadhead]

Literally Girard was better at defense than offense last season...

View attachment 254001

How about 2 years ago, I just did a quick search of low xGFs for "offensive" defenseman over the last two years (assuming that it was due to bad defense - hey, I don't get paid for this so sue me). Should have looked at xGA as well.

Over a two year period, things tend to even out.
Worse xGF% - xGA/60 [selected defenseman]
Schenn 42.47 - 2.53
Leddy 43.89 - 2.86
Ceci 44.64 - 2.80
Ristolainen 45.07 - 2.90
MDZ 45.59 - 2.64
Barrie 45.87 - 2.78
Girard 46.22 - 2.38
OEL 46.24 - 2.80
Keith 46.86 - 2.94 [that's a shocker]
Manning 46.95 - 2.40
Doughty 46.95 - 2.60 [so is this]
Hagg 47.01 - 2.62 (only 43rd worst of D-men with 1000+ minutes at ES)

If Ginning turned out to be Brandon Carlo, jackpot, 54.96 - 2.00
Best xGA/60 last two years, Pateryn 1.83, followed by Seeler, Merrill, Gunnarsson, Fantenberg, Kevan Miller and Carlo.
Worse xGA/60 last two years, Yandle 3.09, followed by Carlsson, Gustafsson, M Reilly, Ekblad, Forsling, Keith, Seabrook and Ristolainen.

A lot of this is influenced by usage, obviously Keith and Doughty aren't as bad as their numbers since they get top matchups, whereas someone like Kevan Miller has good numbers but gets sheltered minutes.

Still it does suggest while Hagg isn't a good defensemen, there are worse players getting steady minutes.

 

[TB87]

Brandon Carlo is what some people are projecting Ginning to be.

Out of curiosity: Which people?

 

[FlyguyOX]

Out of curiosity: Which people?

Whoever the dummies are that are optimistic about him being anything more than a 3rd line plug ha.

 

[TB87]

Whoever the dummies are that are optimistic about him being anything more than a 3rd line plug ha.

Ah, I see. I thought you were referring to a specific writer or something

 

[deadhead]

Well, it's not like Carlo is a skilled offensive juggernaut: 28 ES points total in 3 seasons (4 more on the PK).

 

[TCTC]

People would hate Carlo too if he was on our team. He's big, he doesn't score a lot. That's all some people need to know about him.

 

[prototypical4thliner]

Still it does suggest while Hagg isn't a good defensemen, there are worse players getting steady minutes.

Half way there... can I, for my own personal gratification, hear you say he is worse than the current six defensemen slotted into the flyers depth chart.

 

[wasup]

Literally Girard was better at defense than offense last season...

View attachment 254001

Quit posting advance stats and actually watch the player . He tries to carry the puck out of his own all the time , hangs on to it to long , this results in him turning the puck over way to much and puts the team back on their heels repeatably . If you want to see how it should be done watch Makar not Girard , huge difference .

Girard is like Barrie and i would not want both on my team at the same time and i guess Sakic did not want to either , one of that style is enough on a team .

 

[DancingPanther]

You must be fun at parties. You provide no commentary on his game, save for shallow Wikipedia copy and pastes, basing his hockey intelligence on an interview, and tireless appeals to authority. There is no there there to anything you say about the player. No finer points, no visual evidence, just blather. If you want to argue with people who can provide these things, don't play the martyr when called out.

If I had any confidence they were your own well-meaning thoughts, I wouldn't mind. I'd disagree, but I would do so respectfully. I don't think anyone needs to be shamed for their opinion. Any player or topic. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out this is par-for-the-course contrarian shtick because something something hive mind. Nothing you write exists in a vacuum.

Even if you had watched him and all this was in earnest and I'm someone who desperately needs to get over myself (very likely!), you've proven on countless occasions your hockey thoughts aren't worth much. But keep fighting the good fight.

Nice box out

 

[deadhead]

Half way there... can I, for my own personal gratification, hear you say he is worse than the current six defensemen slotted into the flyers depth chart.

No s***, Sherlock.
Question is whether 24 year old Morin is better than 24 year old Hagg as the 7th D-man, or is Friedman better than both of them?

 

[prototypical4thliner]

No s***, Sherlock.
Question is whether 24 year old Morin is better than 24 year old Hagg as the 7th D-man, or is Friedman better than both of them?

I’m just looking for catharsis and the collective being on the same page here. Just interesting to see the same team being interpreted so wildly differently over the last couple years.

 

[Jettany]

Like Hagg.

Terrible at everything that matters and not even good at the meaningless thing he’s known for.

I have more faith in hexy!

 

[FLYguy3911]

Quit posting advance stats and actually watch the player . He tries to carry the puck out of his own all the time , hangs on to it to long , this results in him turning the puck over way to much and puts the team back on their heels repeatably . If you want to see how it should be done watch Makar not Girard , huge difference .

Girard is like Barrie and i would not want both on my team at the same time and i guess Sakic did not want to either , one of that style is enough on a team .

He was one of the best puck movers in the entire league last year. You have too many biases my man.