Prospect Info: Round 2, Pick #50: Adam Ginning, D, Linkoping HC (SHL)

[GapToothedWonder]

And that's fair and that's fine. If he turns into a bottom pair defender that plays the PK, this pick will look like a good pick. Anything more is gravy. Anything worse is a bummer, especially if someone like Thomas or Groulx lights it up. That's the draft though. Educated guessing.

My problem with it is that in my opinion the best educated guess is to find somebody who shows the ability to efficiently use their feet and passing abilities to be able to escape pressure and transition the puck and then teach them proper defensive technique. But lots of older NHL minds haven't shifted their paradigm yet. They still believe that you can use guys that have plus defensive skills but not the ability to relieve forecheck pressure.

It's nicely summed up by this commercial



I think people who still value old school defensive players are still trying to sell CDs. People who realize that modern day defensive D-men need to be able to play as transition players as well see the future and realize thats where you should invest.

You don't need 6 first pairing Dmen you just need your lower pairing guys to have just enough puck skills that they aren't detriments in the transition game

So to me you can still have your opinion on CDs and truly believe in it, but you would be better off in coming around to the future.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My problem with it is that in my opinion the best educated guess is to find somebody who shows the ability to efficiently use their feet and passing abilities to be able to escape pressure and transition the puck and then teach them proper defensive technique. But lots of older NHL minds haven't shifted their paradigm yet. They still believe that you can use guys that have plus defensive skills but not the ability to relieve forecheck pressure.

It's nicely summed up by this commercial



I think people who still value old school defensive players are still trying to sell CDs. People who realize that modern day defensive D-men need to be able to play as transition players as well see the future and realize thats where you should invest.

You don't need 6 first pairing Dmen you just need your lower pairing guys to have just enough puck skills that they aren't detriments in the transition game

So to me you can still have your opinion on CDs and truly believe in it, but you would be better off in coming around to the future.

Maybe their evaluation is he’s got the tools where he’ll have “just enough puck skills” to not be a detriment to the transition game?

And there still is such a thing as the PK. I mean, I’m a fan of transition defensemen, but I don’t think you can have a team with six undersized defensemen. The game isn’t entirely played 5 on 5 & on the PP, & when the puck is in your own zone for extended periods due to being a man short, undersized defensemen (not all) tend to get abused around the crease. In a game heavy on deflections & crease play, that’s not good.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg was one of the worst regular defensemen in the league last year. So it’s not really hard to improve from that. He doesn’t have some phenomenal track record before entering the league either. But other than blind optimism & hoping for an outlier I really don’t see him ever being a guy who doesn’t hold you back even with improvement off last year.

 

[deadhead]

22 year olds who have continually improved up until that point aren't finished products and can still improve. (Morin)

22 year olds who stagnated long ago because of a lack of brains and skill aren't suddenly going to turn it on. (Hagg)

I wouldn't say Morin has continually improved, he's kinda flatlined himself, and not just due to injury.

 

[macleish1974]

And what is wrong with CDs? And what is wrong with records for that matter? Or the ultimate: RTR with master tapes? If streaming, it is fine for convenience. Most of my music is not streamed, and if streamed I already have it on vinyl or cd. Anyone been to the Princeton Record Shop? The only thing I think that could be better than hockey as a sport or hobby is Flagstad belting out the Immolation scene at the end of Wagner's Götterdämmerung in an Audi R8 with the Burmester audio system, going 180 mph.....;-)))......boy do I dream! ;-)). Though another dream would be having Frost, Farabee, Myers, Ratcliffe and Allison on 2018-2019 Flyers! ;-)) Both impossible dreams.

 

[MacDonald4MVP]

Maybe their evaluation is he’s got the tools where he’ll have “just enough puck skills” to not be a detriment to the transition game?

And there still is such a thing as the PK. I mean, I’m a fan of transition defensemen, but I don’t think you can have a team with six undersized defensemen. The game isn’t entirely played 5 on 5 & on the PP, & when the puck is in your own zone for extended periods due to being a man short, undersized defensemen (not all) tend to get abused around the crease. In a game heavy on deflections & crease play, that’s not good.

Hagg has gotta be one of the most talked about insignificant players on the whole forum lol. He is getting more attention than vesey after leaving college.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg has gotta be one of the most talked about insignificant players on the whole forum lol. He is getting more attention than vesey after leaving college.

Thank Hakstol & the rest of the organization for that.

 

[deadhead]

And what is wrong with CDs? And what is wrong with records for that matter? Or the ultimate: RTR with master tapes? If streaming, it is fine for convenience. Most of my music is not streamed, and if streamed I already have it on vinyl or cd. Anyone been to the Princeton Record Shop? The only thing I think that could be better than hockey as a sport or hobby is Flagstad belting out the Immolation scene at the end of Wagner's Götterdämmerung in an Audi R8 with the Burmester audio system, going 180 mph.....;-)))......boy do I dream! ;-)). Though another dream would be having Frost, Farabee, Myers, Ratcliffe and Allison on 2018-2019 Flyers! ;-)) Both impossible dreams.

Most stream music is low quality, which is why I'm digitalizing my collection (including 1000 bootlegs) at 320 kps, a compromise between quality and convenience. I have no idea how people listen to 64 kps on anything but crappy ear buds.
But I save music on CDs on Wave files, eventually Flac files on a hard drive, but I've been waiting for storage prices to drop (we're talking multiple Tets).

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hagg has gotta be one of the most talked about insignificant players on the whole forum lol. He is getting more attention than vesey after leaving college.

My post was with the understanding the person I was replying to was referring to Ginning.

 

[GapToothedWonder]

And what is wrong with CDs? And what is wrong with records for that matter? Or the ultimate: RTR with master tapes? If streaming, it is fine for convenience. Most of my music is not streamed, and if streamed I already have it on vinyl or cd. Anyone been to the Princeton Record Shop? The only thing I think that could be better than hockey as a sport or hobby is Flagstad belting out the Immolation scene at the end of Wagner's Götterdämmerung in an Audi R8 with the Burmester audio system, going 180 mph.....;-)))......boy do I dream! ;-)). Though another dream would be having Frost, Farabee, Myers, Ratcliffe and Allison on 2018-2019 Flyers! ;-)) Both impossible dreams.

Hey I love vinyl records and have a fair sized collection of my own and those stolen from my parents. But I sure wouldn't want to be trying to make a living selling CDs! Haha

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I think Ginning will be there (the WJC’s that is) regardless but Sandin backed out of the summer camp citing a “long season” so that’s probably not good for his WJC’s chances I’d imagine.

 

[Stizzle]

An Adam Ginning sighting.

 

[Appleyard]

 

[Appleyard]

 

[deadhead]

Have to have some perspective, Ginning was #50, not exactly looking a "sure things" at that point in the draft.

So you gamble on upside, guys that big who can skate (see Morin) hold out the hope of a big defensive defenseman who can keep up with a skilled offensive partner - there's only one puck so ideally you want someone to CYA for a gambling defenseman and who can clear the crease and handle the puck in the D-zone without looking like a klutz.

Your 3rd and 4th best scoring D-men are going to give you 15-25 points at ES at best, so the falloff to say 10-15 points is pretty minor, but if the less skilled big defenseman is significantly better on defense, he more than makes up for that minor decline in offensive production.

 

[Appleyard]

I mean, he is a pretty "sure thing" in a way. At worst barring something awful he will be top 4 SHL level... I.E. top ~3 AHL level who could hold his own in the NHL. His upside is probably the problem.


My objection to the pick simply was/is that there were potential top six forwards sitting there, and there were some overlooked Euro Dmen who would 100% fall into the later rounds with just as much upside if not more.

I had Hallander and Thomas both top 25. Time will tell of course...

 

[Curufinwe]

JOB + Ginning or K'Andre Miller + Akil Thomas?

 

[Jtown]

JOB + Ginning or K'Andre Miller + Akil Thomas?

that is the question isn't it. Right now its clearly miller and thomas. K'Andre has oodles of potential. Thomas keeps getting better and better.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

His tools are better than many give him credit for.

And big guys generally take a little longer to fully develop. I think he’ll keep improving.

 

[Jtown]

His tools are better than many give him credit for.

And big guys generally take a little longer to fully develop. I think he’ll keep improving.

he stood out in the summer showcase. I think some on here rushed to judgement on him but he has ability.

 

[hatcher]

I picked ginning and Wyatt. Both great picks and will be solid flyers lol. Ginning will be a solid dman on the big team.

 

[TB87]

he stood out in the summer showcase. I think some on here rushed to judgement on him but he has ability.

Standing out in exhibition games is nice. He’s been inconsistent in the SHL this season. Even more so than last season (according to Appleyard).

If he ends up as a 3rd pair defenseman at the NHL level that’s fine. If he’s good defensively but he’s a detriment to the transition game and isn’t aggressive against entries...than I won’t be pleased. Gotta attack rushers in the NZ and be helpful in transition from the DZ to be as impactful as possible.

I see a brighter NHL future for Hogberg, Zamula, & Friedman. Brighter as in: play-driving, shot suppression, a positive contributor in the NZ, skating, etc.

 

[Tripod]

Clearly he has been watching game tape of Luke Schenn.