Roster Thread (2023-2024 Season)

[Dirty Dog]

The roster is still very talented up and down the lineup. But it’s very flawed. What’s infuriating is we don’t need a major overhaul. We need a few important obtainable additions and new coaching

 

[Krieger Bot]

Maybe trading Mitts for Byram did not magically solve all the issues on the blueline...

Between January 1 and March 5 (the day before Mitts was traded), the Sabres 5 on 5 xGA was 2.39/60, good for 11th in the league.

From March 6 to the present, our 5 on 5 xGA has ballooned to 3.08, second last in the league.

One stat alone doesn't tell the whole story of course, but that stat is pretty damning.

 

[OkimLom]

I don't think they have to start over. This team has the personnel to be a solid playoff team as is, imo. They do need more team structure though.

I do not see a lot of consistency in their on ice structure, which tells me the players are reacting to the situation as individuals and not setting up as a team with simple defined jobs. I strongly believe that if a coaching staff where to come in and simplify what was being asked of the players, that they would step on the ice knowing they were doing what was asked of them and they could focus on competing within those parameters instead of focusing on trying to make reads based off of where each of their teammates every shift.

Let them focus just on competing within a more limiting structure, and I think the effort becomes a whole lot more consistent.

They have the personnel to be a solid regular season team on their best day. A team that makes it to the dance, but doesn't make it past the 1st round. Adams has built a soft team, not just physically, but mentally.

As the team is structured right now, and barring a miracle that about 80% of the players decide to change how they play, this team just doesn't have the game (or dog) in them to play a more condensed, pressurized, more (non call) obstructed environment that playoff hockey brings with it.

I feel confident that Greenway, Benson, Peterka, Quinn, and probably Tuch would be effective players. I honestly believe the rest would fold up, or they would become too caught up in getting back at players when the whistles are put away.

 

[Jim Bob]

They have the personnel to be a solid regular season team on their best day. A team that makes it to the dance, but doesn't make it past the 1st round. Adams has built a soft team, not just physically, but mentally.

As the team is structured right now, and barring a miracle that about 80% of the players decide to change how they play, this team just doesn't have the game (or dog) in them to play a more condensed, pressurized, more (non call) obstructed environment that playoff hockey brings with it.

I feel confident that Greenway, Benson, Peterka, Quinn, and probably Tuch would be effective players. I honestly believe the rest would fold up, or they would become too caught up in getting back at players when the whistles are put away.

They need to get to the playoffs before I start worrying about guys that play a playoff style.

 

[OkimLom]

They need to get to the playoffs before I start worrying about guys that play a playoff style.

I can understand that, but we've watched enough playoff hockey to understand what sort of game it is, how it gets called. And we've seen this team play under an assortment of styles of games, plays, and have seen circumstances/situations during gameplay how these guys play. I think we can get a very good idea of how these players would play during playoff hockey.

I was just posting my opinion on the idea/thought of this team having the personnel of being a solid playoff team.

 

[Fjordy]

They need to get to the playoffs before I start worrying about guys that play a playoff style.

They want players who are difficult to play against, guys with character, but they also need a coach like that, not Donnie Granato's golf club.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Let's be 100% clear here, this was the plan for the summer, from Adams himself in his post trade deadline presser:

1. Backfill Mittelstadt's spot with one of Krebs or a prospect (assuming Savoie here)
2. Add a veteran 4th line center who can win faceoffs and help with the PK.
3. Re-do the 4th line, though, he probably wants to bring back Girgensons.

.....that's it. He gave Granato the vote of confidence.

Maybe that changes, but I don't think it does.

They aren't going to spend to the cap.

Superficial changes and another important role handed to someone who isn't ready for it.

Maybe Adams goes out and proves me wrong, he hasn't yet.

Until Adams (and, by extension, the Pegulas) are removed from the decision making here, our absolute best case scenario for this team is make the playoffs and get promptly exited from the playoffs in the 1st round. And that will require everything breaking right for them like last year.

You’re right on most of this - but again, they definitely will be spending to the cap, after next season.

For the millionth time, cheapness with regards to the cap isn’t the reason this team is bad. It’s horrible decision making by ownership and management, and cheapness with regards to scouting and coaching. Your obsession with the cap is weird because they have done nothing but sign big idiotic contracts that all but guarantee that they will have cap issues within the next 2 years.

 

[Jim Bob]

Bryson is getting a lot of work at practice.

 

[toddkaz]

Have to wonder if the workload has taken a toll on UPL. I would like to think goalies can handle it but its nice to have an excuse for his play the last game.

He must of played 30 of the last 35 games or so?

 

[Beerz]

Donnie can't help with f***ing with the D pairs ..

Jesus.. ride Dahlin and Byram for the rest of the year. See what you have.

 

[BFLO]

You’re right on most of this - but again, they definitely will be spending to the cap, after next season.

For the millionth time, cheapness with regards to the cap isn’t the reason this team is bad. It’s horrible decision making by ownership and management, and cheapness with regards to scouting and coaching. Your obsession with the cap is weird because they have done nothing but sign big idiotic contracts that all but guarantee that they will have cap issues within the next 2 years.

There's no "one thing" holding the Sabres back, there's a lot of things holding them back, but I don't see how you can say cap cheapness hasn't been part of the problems over the last 3 seasons.

 

[The Blunder Years]

Been watching some games from 05-07 and wow it’s hilarious comparing how our current team plays.

The 05-07 teams were loaded with skill but played with so much intensity. High speed and heavy forecheck. They would swarm their opponents. They had a great ability to get the puck right to the net too instead of waiting for the “perfect” shot. And if It didn’t go in they players crashing the crease.

But our current team literally does not do any of this. We are so far from being a good team still. Granato needs to go, there is no way in hell he can get the team to play the way they need to.

 

[Jim Bob]

There's no "one thing" holding the Sabres back, there's a lot of things holding them back, but I don't see how you can say cap cheapness hasn't been part of the problems over the last 3 seasons.

I wonder if Adams is being honest about the spending against the cap the last few years. Are there restrictions or has it been his approach by emphasizing draft and development and not wanting to keep from being able to retain guys who earn long term deals?

 

[DapperCam]

I’m pretty much ready for them to really shake things up.

- Replace Granato with an experienced coach
- Trade Tage unless the front office has some sort of inside info that he will return to form
- Buy out Skinner
- Trade the 2024 1st for help now
- Trade one or two of the prospects in the pipeline for help now (Kulich, Savoie, Rosen, etc).
- Deal Joker
- Send Krebs down to Rochester, he’ll clear waivers.
- Let Zemgus walk.
- Buy some actually decent FA. Push guys like Cozens down the lineup.

It’s pretty obvious that this group as currently put together isn’t going to ever win a playoff series with internal development alone. They need to get smarter and tougher. Too many players with low hockey IQ constantly killing plays. I wish we hadn’t dealt Mitts, but it’s in the past now.

 

[sabremike]

So we are now at the "make trades/get rid of guys just for the sake of doing so" stage because those type of moves always end up working out great.

 

[TehDoak]

You’re right on most of this - but again, they definitely will be spending to the cap, after next season.

For the millionth time, cheapness with regards to the cap isn’t the reason this team is bad. It’s horrible decision making by ownership and management, and cheapness with regards to scouting and coaching. Your obsession with the cap is weird because they have done nothing but sign big idiotic contracts that all but guarantee that they will have cap issues within the next 2 years.

Actually, them spending to the cap floor two consecutive seasons is one of the big reasons we are where we are today (and 6M under the cap this year with 9M wasted on Girgensons/Jost/Okposo/Stillman)

It's not reasonable to expect a rebuilding team to be capped out, and in reality, it's wise not to be. But, the issue with the Adams rebuild has been them not utilizing Rochester enough and not focusing on improving the team at the NHL level. The 'let the kids play' has been a disaster, even with a developmental coach. Addressing roles as a practicality and fitting kids in roles where they can succeed is the correct path.

Obvious mistakes the last two years:

- Forcing Power into a top 4 role (both last year and this year)
- Defaulting to Levi this year rather than adding a veteran goalie to let him develop
- Gifting Peterka and Quinn top 9 forward time.
- Keeping Benson

Of the four listed, the quinn/peterka thing has been the least harmful, though I'd argue adding a middle six veteran forward and letting Quinn/Peterka fight for one spot would have had dividends last year and this.

The lack of veteran support in the middle six forwards, top 4 defense, and in goal is why we didn't make the playoffs last year and why we collapse under any adversity this season. And you don't add that kind of support all in one offseason, you do it over several seasons. And those players cost real money. And to come to a rebuilding situation, you have to typically over pay them a bit over market. And the Sabres refused to do that, instead opting for the Hinostrozas and Corey Stillmans and bringing back the same voices of a failed era in Girgensons/Okposo.

So when I talk about 'cheapness', I'm not talking about them not signing some superstar or being in on every big name. I'm talking about getting real, effective veterans to fill in roster holes and 'block the kids' to let them earn roster spots and ice time instead of it being gifted.

 

[BuffaloMango]

It's impressive that a guy who built a career on being an effort checker has no clue how to identify winning depth players and is willing to watch his supposed top line guys be so inherently gutless. There is no push back from this group. I don't know if there is a way to instill that without sweeping most of the personnel out the door... again. But the no hit, no cycle, no net drive child's game the staff is selling does not work.

And it feels very much like he traded the wrong center(s) at the deadline.

To your first point. It seems there is an attempt to save a couple of bucks by not paying Granato not to coach the next two years. If he does that he will likely have to tear this whole thing down again just like with ROR, Reinhart, and Eichel. For anybody that believes in the kids in that locker room, running it back will set the franchise back another 3-5 years. I truly believe that.

To the second point, it doesn't take Scotty Bowman to see that Dylan Cozens has consistently been our 3rd best center by some margin and that Mittstadt has been a better all around player than Tage Thompson since about the 2023 All-Star break. Byram fills a need but it is also magnifying the deficiencies of TT and DC. Somehow the 24-25 Buffalo Sabres need to find an upgrade at center.

 

[BuffaloMango]

Actually, them spending to the cap floor two consecutive seasons is one of the big reasons we are where we are today (and 6M under the cap this year with 9M wasted on Girgensons/Jost/Okposo/Stillman)

It's not reasonable to expect a rebuilding team to be capped out, and in reality, it's wise not to be. But, the issue with the Adams rebuild has been them not utilizing Rochester enough and not focusing on improving the team at the NHL level. The 'let the kids play' has been a disaster, even with a developmental coach. Addressing roles as a practicality and fitting kids in roles where they can succeed is the correct path.

Obvious mistakes the last two years:

- Forcing Power into a top 4 role (both last year and this year)
- Defaulting to Levi this year rather than adding a veteran goalie to let him develop
- Gifting Peterka and Quinn top 9 forward time.
- Keeping Benson

Of the four listed, the quinn/peterka thing has been the least harmful, though I'd argue adding a middle six veteran forward and letting Quinn/Peterka fight for one spot would have had dividends last year and this.

The lack of veteran support in the middle six forwards, top 4 defense, and in goal is why we didn't make the playoffs last year and why we collapse under any adversity this season. And you don't add that kind of support all in one offseason, you do it over several seasons. And those players cost real money. And to come to a rebuilding situation, you have to typically over pay them a bit over market. And the Sabres refused to do that, instead opting for the Hinostrozas and Corey Stillmans and bringing back the same voices of a failed era in Girgensons/Okposo.

So when I talk about 'cheapness', I'm not talking about them not signing some superstar or being in on every big name. I'm talking about getting real, effective veterans to fill in roster holes and 'block the kids' to let them earn roster spots and ice time instead of it being gifted.

I actually think Quinn and JJP are further along than Cozens and Power because they spent 60-70 games a piece in Rochester. Experience matters, but you also don't create Michael Phelps by teaching a kid to swim in a hurricane either.

There are certainly some examples of developing talent under Donnie. But at the same I can't help but notice that this team has a death grip on any kid who even flashes talent, and forces them into play. Levi flashes and suddenly he is our starting goaltender. UPL finds his game and now he is playing at a 67 game pace. A pace nobody in the league has played since 2018. Cozens, Power, it is all the same. There are moments where this doesn't feel like development. It feels like survival.

 

[Dubi Doo]

It's impressive that a guy who built a career on being an effort checker has no clue how to identify winning depth players and is willing to watch his supposed top line guys be so inherently gutless. There is no push back from this group. I don't know if there is a way to instill that without sweeping most of the personnel out the door... again. But the no hit, no cycle, no net drive child's game the staff is selling does not work.

And it feels very much like he traded the wrong center(s) at the deadline.

This is what kills my interest. This roster is plagued with gutless players. They've tried adding guys who have been there before (Tuch, Clifton, EJ, Byram, etc...) but the same issues exist.

A change in coaching will help, but I have to wonder if they need to ship out a core guy or two to really shake up the locker room.

I don't know. The worst part of this season is I've been so detached that my opinions I share on this board are based in ignorance. I want to vent, but Ive seen so little of this team this year that I know my posts lack substance.

Kudos to those of you still trucking along.

 

[DapperCam]

So we are now at the "make trades/get rid of guys just for the sake of doing so" stage because those type of moves always end up working out great.

I don’t think it is “for the sake of doing so”. This team has serious issues and as such, needs serious changes.

- We need a new coach, that is obvious. A team that values winning would have done this change already.
- We have too much youth and too many low hockey IQ players that kill plays constantly. To remedy that will require shipping out cap and assets for capable vets (keyword being capable).

Which assets and cap to ship out is a matter of debate, but it needs to happen.

 

[BuffaloMango]

Have to wonder if the workload has taken a toll on UPL. I would like to think goalies can handle it but its nice to have an excuse for his play the last game.

He must of played 30 of the last 35 games or so?

Very close guess. 29/35. Which also is how many games since the new year. Which is 67.9 game pace.

The last goalie to play 68 games or more was Cam Talbot in 2016-17.

I don't understand why Levi is still called up and not back in Rochester. The season is over, UPL is exhausted, and the team gave up last night. Just let Comrie play.

 

[BuffaloMango]

This is what kills my interest. This roster is plagued with gutless players. They've tried adding guys who have been there before (Tuch, Clifton, EJ, Byram, etc...) but the same issues exist.

A change in coaching will help, but I have to wonder if they need to ship out a core guy or two to really shake up the locker room.

I don't know. The worst part of this season is I've been so detached that my opinions I share on this board are based in ignorance. I want to vent, but Ive seen so little of this team this year that I know my posts lack substance.

Kudos to those of you still trucking along.

Normally I would say that the right thing to do is wait until year end to fire the coach. But this team is too soft and comfortable. With some reports that some guys came back a bit slow after last summer I would send them into the offseason uncomfortable/nervous and fire Granato today.

 

[Selanne00008]

I ALWAYS wanted them to bring in Bruce Boudreau. Is he still kicking after Vancouver? I feel like he really turned some mediocre teams into playoff teams. With all the dart throws at coaching, this is one move we haven't really tried yet.

PLEASE!!!!

 

[slip]

It's impressive that a guy who built a career on being an effort checker has no clue how to identify winning depth players and is willing to watch his supposed top line guys be so inherently gutless. There is no push back from this group. I don't know if there is a way to instill that without sweeping most of the personnel out the door... again. But the no hit, no cycle, no net drive child's game the staff is selling does not work.

And it feels very much like he traded the wrong center(s) at the deadline.

I would give anything to have Mitts back and Tage in Colorado.

 

[BuffaloMango]

I would give anything to have Mitts back and Tage in Colorado.

Or Cozens.

It’s so strange that Adam’s said we needed Krebs to backfill Mitts. Casey has been our best center all year and leading all centers in TOI. I believe he lead all forwards in 5v5 TOI as well.

There is a total disconnect between what this staff/FO sees on the ice, what they say they want, and reality.