Speculation: Roster Speculation Part VII

[Gordo21]

Ok, so we're all in agreement...


Fire Housley and Botts,

Trade useless Ristolainen and Scandella and replace their minutes with a shit load of extra minutes for Pilut.

Send Thompson to the AHL so he can learn from Nylander

Make CJ Smith a staple on the Sabres roster.

In fact, literally staple both him and Pilut's name to the cup that we will invariably win from finally making all the moves that all the "Fans" here on this message board have been clamoring for relentlessly, and by overwhelming consensus, for what seems like forever.

I think that's it, right?

Oh Goodness, almost forgot ... And Kick Sobotka in the Nuts, just because we can.


God bless this organization.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Duddy]

Housley is the smartest

Nobody stands a chance against his coaching smarts.

 

[Reddawg]

Hopefully the subliminal text reads "Jason told me to say nice things about Vlad so he can trade him".

 

[dasaybz]

wtf is Gar?

 

[Reddawg]

wtf is Gar?

Goals Above Replacement. His value vs an average replacement player.

 

[slip]

Housley is the smartest

Nobody stands a chance against his coaching smarts.

Guaranteed Trotz is freaking out right now. He's like a high school chess amateur about to take on the Bobby Fisher of the coaching world: "Oh no, not the Pominiville First Line Gambit! And the Sobotka Defense too? The man is unstoppable."

 

[Royal Thunder]

Larsson, Girgensons, and Rodrigues are all vastly better pk'ers than Sobotka. I read it somewhere else, but the guy plays with zero passion or energy, it's like hockey is 100% just a job to him.

 

[GellMann]

Off the top of my head:

Kucherov
Ovechkin
Kane
Tarasenko
Laine
Marner
Panarin
Gaudreau
Rantanen
Pastranak
Marchand
Wheeler
Kessel
Landeskog

I mean, I like Stone a lot, he's a 1st line winger.

But he's not a top ten winger. And he doesn't have NEAR the resume that Tavares has. He'll get more than Skinner, less than Panarin.

I would take Stone over a fair number of those guys, though not all but 3 or even 5 like some people claim.

Further, a guy like Kessel, similarly to E. Kane (though on a higher level) will score more goals for your team but won't make your team and its players better at hockey, whereas Stone is the kind that does that.

I'd take him over Kessel, Landeskog, Laine for sure, Tarasenko, and then some of Wheeler/Panarin/Rantanen/Pastrnak, though I'm not sure which ones offhand.

 

[TehDoak]

I would take Stone over a fair number of those guys, though not all but 3 or even 5 like some people claim.

Further, a guy like Kessel, similarly to E. Kane (though on a higher level) will score more goals for your team but won't make your team and its players better at hockey, whereas Stone is the kind that does that.

I'd take him over Kessel, Landeskog, Laine for sure, Tarasenko, and then some of Wheeler/Panarin/Rantanen/Pastrnak, though I'm not sure which ones offhand.

You do realize Kessel was the key piece that pushed the penguins to their 2nd/3rd cups right?

He should have won conn smythe one of those years.

I could certainly see an argument about Kessel's age vs Stones, sure. But, the idea that Kessel is this goal scorer that doesn't help your team was obliterated during the Pens cup run.

 

[Snippit]

Off the top of my head:

Kucherov
Ovechkin
Kane
Tarasenko
Laine
Marner
Panarin
Gaudreau
Rantanen
Pastranak
Marchand
Wheeler
Kessel
Landeskog

I mean, I like Stone a lot, he's a 1st line winger.

But he's not a top ten winger. And he doesn't have NEAR the resume that Tavares has. He'll get more than Skinner, less than Panarin.

He’s better than Landeskog, Kessel, Laine, Tarasenko. I’d say easily better, in fact. Putting him firmly in the top 10, and debatable with a few more.

 

[GellMann]

You do realize Kessel was the key piece that pushed the penguins to their 2nd/3rd cups right?

He should have won conn smythe one of those years.

I could certainly see an argument about Kessel's age vs Stones, sure. But, the idea that Kessel is this goal scorer that doesn't help your team was obliterating during the Pens cup run.

Kessel went from top dog with all defensive efforts shifted to stopping him, to a guy that played that first playoff run and much of the next year on the 3rd line, benefiting from Crosby and Malkin requiring all and then some of their opponents' extra focus. As a hockey player on the ice, Phil's skillsets don't lend to cohesive team hockey a la what the Hurricanes dismantled us with, and offensively he's not much more than a one-trick pony, a trick that he's really, really good with. Stone plays the kind of game that elevates the hockey that his team plays on the 98% of the game that isn't the goal itself in a way that few NHL players do, certainly not Phil Kessel.

 

[Fezzy126]

88 NHL games, 10G, 10A. That's why. He hasn't produced at the NHL level significantly yet. Force feeding him TOI won't fix his issues.

TT seems to be a "all the tools no toolbox" kind of player at this point.

For every corner he picks for a highlight real goal, I can find 10 unforced turnovers or bad decisions that have killed forechecks or led directly to a chance against.

He was gifted a spot out of camp....and I'm still not sure why.

Amazingly, when Sam was playing with AHLers, everyone and their mothers came to defend him. But Phil staples Tage to Sobotka and no one comments about his linemates.

I've seen progression from the kid, and although the bad still outweighs the good, I'm reserving judgement until I see him play alongside of actual NHL players.

 

[Fezzy126]

I would take Stone over a fair number of those guys, though not all but 3 or even 5 like some people claim.

Further, a guy like Kessel, similarly to E. Kane (though on a higher level) will score more goals for your team but won't make your team and its players better at hockey, whereas Stone is the kind that does that.

I'd take him over Kessel, Landeskog, Laine for sure, Tarasenko, and then some of Wheeler/Panarin/Rantanen/Pastrnak, though I'm not sure which ones offhand.

I don't understand the continuous proclamations of player A > player B. When you reach a certain point it's just - damn, he's really f***ing good at hockey, and it then becomes all about fit, style chemistry, etc.

I'd never make the claim that Stone is better than so and so, but I'd feel really really good about a lineup that had Jack, Dahlin, Skinner, Reinhart, and Stone for the next decade(ish).

 

[sabrebuild]

Off the top of my head:

Kucherov
Ovechkin
Kane
Tarasenko
Laine
Marner
Panarin
Gaudreau
Rantanen
Pastranak
Marchand
Wheeler
Kessel
Landeskog

I mean, I like Stone a lot, he's a 1st line winger.

But he's not a top ten winger. And he doesn't have NEAR the resume that Tavares has. He'll get more than Skinner, less than Panarin.

That’s a pretty bad list. Might make it less ridiculous if some explanations were made, because otherwise, ugly.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Lol the PK went right to the toilet when Larsson missed game action and it was Girgs/Sobotka PK1

 

[sabrebuild]

Amazingly, when Sam was playing with AHLers, everyone and their mothers came to defend him. But Phil staples Tage to Sobotka and no one comments about his linemates.

I've seen progression from the kid, and although the bad still outweighs the good, I'm reserving judgement until I see him play alongside of actual NHL players.

Please. I love this narrative that nobody is being fair to Thompson. Nobody is crapping on Tage because he has bad linemates and they don’t do anything with great setups. Only the most extreme fringe think he will never figure it out at all.

They complain because Tage objectively made horrific individual plays pretty constantly for his first 30 games. Now he makes horrific individual plays only a lot of the time. Like being in a perfect shooting position a couple games ago and passing to Sobotka who had no shooting lane and is Sobotka.

It’s a dumb comparison. I think Thompson will become a useful player eventually. But it’s not his linemates that are dragging him down. Heck, he could have played with Mitts all year and have 10 extra points and I still would expect a large group of posters to notice the multitude of game changing gaffes that he has created all year long.

 

[Fezzy126]

Dead serious, I'm not going to objectively judge Tage until Sobotka is not his center. Unless of course you think it's fair for a shot generating 21-year old forward to be paired black hole that is good at nothing and placed in a defensive role?

Would you think talent judgement would be fair if Nylander was played in that same role with those same teammates?

 

[Aladyyn]

Dead serious, I'm not going to objectively judge Tage until Sobotka is not his center. Unless of course you think it's fair for a shot generating 21-year old forward to be paired black hole that is good at nothing and placed in a defensive role?

Would you think talent judgement would be fair if Nylander was played in that same role with those same teammates?

I meant the part about people defending Reinhart. That definitely wasn't the popular stance.

And even then there is one key difference. Reinhart was still driving play with terrible linemates. Thompson is the opposite.

 

[Fezzy126]

Please. I love this narrative that nobody is being fair to Thompson. Nobody is crapping on Tage because he has bad linemates and they don’t do anything with great setups. Only the most extreme fringe think he will never figure it out at all.

They complain because Tage objectively made horrific individual plays pretty constantly for his first 30 games. Now he makes horrific individual plays only a lot of the time. Like being in a perfect shooting position a couple games ago and passing to Sobotka who had no shooting lane and is Sobotka.

It’s a dumb comparison. I think Thompson will become a useful player eventually. But it’s not his linemates that are dragging him down. Heck, he could have played with Mitts all year and have 10 extra points and I still would expect a large group of posters to notice the multitude of game changing gaffes that he has created all year long.

My comparison is that linemates can affect individual performance. and yes, in this case they are. I know, I mentioned Reinhart by name, so alarms were triggered, but Sam's first half point production was abysmal. Many people acutely pointed out that he was playing with AHLers, some agreed and then enjoyed his 2nd half resurgence, some labeled him a bust and wanted to trade him...

Tage's greatest strength is as a shooter. He's not a transition player, he's not a distributor. How many times have his teammates put him in a position to use his greatest asset? His individual mistakes are magnified because he's is depended on by his linemates to be the primary puck handler for zone exits, transition, zone entry, distributor, and the trigger man all at once. He still has a lot to learn about finding space without the puck and making himself available to use his shot, but he has made strides this year.

Many of you may be right, he may not have the hockey IQ necessary (or as Chain has referred to him as Eric Daze with a better shot), but I don't think anything about his deployment and performance this season should lead you to that conclusion yet.

I meant the part about people defending Reinhart. That definitely wasn't the popular stance.

And even then there is one key difference. Reinhart was still driving play with terrible linemates. Thompson is the opposite.

I guess I remember it differently, I felt like all of us were aware that his linemates sucked. And you are correct, Sam was still driving play. He is significantly better at hockey than Tage, I never made an argument otherwise. In fact he is the only one that has managed to drive Sobotka to near useful levels this year

 

[OkimLom]

Dead serious, I'm not going to objectively judge Tage until Sobotka is not his center. Unless of course you think it's fair for a shot generating 21-year old forward to be paired black hole that is good at nothing and placed in a defensive role?

Would you think talent judgement would be fair if Nylander was played in that same role with those same teammates?

I don't see no issue with waiting to fully judge the player until he is given a fair shake with quality of linemates. However, I do think you can judge the player as an individual player based on what he has done so far.

We did see him with Eichel. He was drastically behind consistently, but he also wasn't given time with Jack to try and get up to speed. There's a part of me that would like to see what he can do with Sam. A guy who has shown this year to be a guy who makes those around him better. Eichel/Skinner haven't been as impactful without Sam this year. Sheary/Mittelstadt haven't played better without Sam.

 

[Jim Bob]

Tage Thompson at eliteprospects.com

Tage wasn't a big time goal scorer at the NTDP.

He wasn't a big time goal scorer at UConn. (He was t-32nd in the NCAA his last season at UConn in goals)

He wasn't a big time goal scorer in the AHL.

And he hasn't been a big time goal scorer in the NHL.

Thompson seems to be a guy that scouts love because he's a big body with a booming shot. But, that hasn't led to a lot of production at any level.

 

[Fezzy126]

I don't see no issue with waiting to fully judge the player until he is given a fair shake with quality of linemates. However, I do think you can judge the player as an individual player based on what he has done so far.

We did see him with Eichel. He was drastically behind consistently, but he also wasn't given time with Jack to try and get up to speed. There's a part of me that would like to see what he can do with Sam. A guy who has shown this year to be a guy who makes those around him better. Eichel/Skinner haven't been as impactful without Sam this year. Sheary/Mittelstadt haven't played better without Sam.

Ugh, I was excited when Tage got the chance with Jack & Jeff, but it lasted for a period and a half AND it was the game that Jack came back from injury (he didn't look like himself for several games after he returned)... I was hoping he'd get a couple games so we could get a real evaluation of him playing with skill players.

 

[Fezzy126]

Tage Thompson at eliteprospects.com

Tage wasn't a big time goal scorer at the NTDP.

He wasn't a big time goal scorer at UConn. (He was t-32nd in the NCAA his last season at UConn in goals)

He wasn't a big time goal scorer in the AHL.

And he hasn't been a big time goal scorer in the NHL.

Thompson seems to be a guy that scouts love because he's a big body with a booming shot. But, that hasn't led to a lot of production at any level.

Casey also wasn't a big time scorer at the lower levels, which certainly raises some warning flags, but I have high hopes that both can be good/complimentary middle 6 NHLers.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Ugh, I was excited when Tage got the chance with Jack & Jeff, but it lasted for a period and a half AND it was the game that Jack came back from injury (he didn't look like himself for several games after he returned)... I was hoping he'd get a couple games so we could get a real evaluation of him playing with skill players.

I really like that graphic. I find most of the visualised advanced stats a bit to OTT these days but that is brilliant.