Roster Speculation, 2018 offseason Part 5/ Post-free agency edition

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debaser66

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Mar 10, 2012
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players thriving in better teams (McNabb, Myers)
May have never fullfilled their potential here.
Just look at Myers who was constantly roasted on this board until he found his place in Winnipeg because he wasnt asked to be a top pairing minutes.
And Bogo wasn't a cap dump he was considered a straight up replacement for Myers.
I am glad Murray is gone but making him a scapegoat to make the future shine brighter isnt quite what went on.
As of now I hope Botterill pulls the trigger at the right time for the Reinhart deal.
 

TehDoak

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Will fix everything
I’ll take Dahlin

Exactly. Every misstep along the way delivered us a franchise defenseman. The complaining should end right there, but it never does.

Agreed.... I wouldn't change anything over the last 6 years... it's all worth a core of Dahlin, Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts...

:ha: No one can take credit for winning a lottery. By that logic, Craig McTavish is a good GM because his actions led to McDavid.

I'm sorry, is that supposed to be a good blueline????

It's miles ahead of

Scandella-Risto
Gorges-Bogosian
McCabe-Nelson
 
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Reddawg

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:ha: No one can take credit for winning a lottery. By that logic, Craig McTavish is a good GM because his actions led to McDavid.
I'm just saying, if we tinker enough of the past around to result in six more points last year, Dahlin start Ottawa Sens camp tomorrow. I could care less at this point about past mistakes, they don't matter anymore. The present and the future is all I choose to focus on.
 
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Djp

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2014 late round players are AHL regulars at this point in time typically. Our 2014 picks are barely getting 4th line minutes despite all our 1st rounders skipping the AHL.

And that's only half the problem. All the actual players he targeted in trades sucked and got rightfully ran out of town. The teams we traded a plethora of players to all have those players contributing to their playoff series last season.


lets be fair here.....

Murray handled the
1415--3rd yr AHL players are from 2010 draft in CHL players
1516--3rd yr AHL players are from 2011 draft in CHL players
1617 --3rd yr AHL players are from 2012 draft in CHL players

these were not his draft classes. based on drafting Europeans he could stock the AHL with 18 yr old players by drafting Europeans. But Buffalo picked top 3 which means usually these players skip AHL.
 

Djp

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So, if Murray doesn't do the Kane/Bogo trade.... sure, we have Armia and maybe Roslovic.... but we then probably don't have Rodrigues and CJ Smith.

Whatever differences there may be... it's not a massive organizational gap...

Sure.... the McNabb trade was moronic in hindsight... but without the gap, maybe Murray doesn't direct his guys to draft "all D" after Eichel... giving us Guhle and Borgen.

The Pysyk trade didn't work with regards to Kulikov... how's everyone feeling about Asplund though?

Murray failed... because his plan didn't work (accelerate) and he made a poor coaching. But the revisionist history is weak...


McNab deal was done before Buffalo had Eichel, ROR, or Kane.

at the at time Buffalo had to get to the cap floor.

McNabb had to go through waivers the next year and the sabres needed to get to the cap floor.

His plan was to sign a higher cost deman for the 23 man roster which would push McNabb into waivers given they also had Zadorov. and Pysyk

If TM was certain Bufalo would get McDavid or Eichel in 2015 he likely only signs Ennis and Moulson to 4 yr contracts, He signed to 5 in case the 2015 pick would still be on ELC this year to help them get to the cap floor.


The Pysyk trade intention was to try to balance L/R and also the issue was the expansion draft and maybe try to resign Kulikov after the draft.
 

Royal Thunder

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Feb 21, 2012
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To me this indicates one of 2 things, neither good:

Either (a) Botts sucks at negotiating or (b) Botts sucks at evaluating talent (i.e. he thinks Sobotka will be a difference maker in the bottom six and Berglund will be a passable middle six option)

I've brought this up before...part of the reason the 05-06 team was so good was because they could outplay other teams up and down the lineup, especially in the forward ranks. You could count on the 4th line to not only break even, but to sometimes generate offensive pressure. You could also move guys like Hecht/Goose/Grier up the lineup due to injuries for short periods of time without suffering a massive drop-off.

Meanwhile, expectations for recent Sabres bottom 6s have been "Please don't get scored on or take a penalty." The bar for success is incredibly low and they still fail to achieve it pretty often.
I feel to see why Berglund cannot have an impact somewhere in the range of Hecht/Goose/Grier. Sobotka is less of a sure thing but could easily be an upgrade for our bottom 6.

You accuse Botts of sucking at evaluating talent, while scoffing at the idea of Berglund being even a passable top 9 option? You seem to think he is barely an NHL caliber player while he's been in the top 9 of a good team for like a decade, now that's failing at evaluating talent..
 

struckbyaparkedcar

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Mar 1, 2008
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That's true of the forward group.

The defensive talent exodus is 100% on Murray. He went the opposite way of how the NHL was trending (moved out better skating, puck moving d-men and replaced them with slower, stay at home guys).

Moving out Myers, Pysyk, Zadorov, McNabb and replacing them with Bogosion, Gorges, Kulikov is a joke. Even if you'd do the RoR trade again.....imagine a blueline of:

Scandella-Myers
McNabb-Risto
Guhle-Psysyk

Last year, it's miles ahead of where we are at currently.
Guhle, who didn’t make a worse blueline, is on this version of the team because...?

Zach Bogosian played more games than Tyler Myers in Murray’s two seasons with Eichel.

If McNabb is who his stats are, we don’t get Eichel. If McNabb is the nice, albeit complimentary piece we and the Kings pegged him as, the issue goes back to Murray’s lack of work on the margins.
 

Jame

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I feel to see why Berglund cannot have an impact somewhere in the range of Hecht/Goose/Grier. Sobotka is less of a sure thing but could easily be an upgrade for our bottom 6.

You accuse Botts of sucking at evaluating talent, while scoffing at the idea of Berglund being even a passable top 9 option? You seem to think he is barely an NHL caliber player while he's been in the top 9 of a good team for like a decade, now that's failing at evaluating talent..

Berglund's former Sabre comparison is Drew Stafford.

He's nothing like Jochen, Goose, or Grier....
 

Jame

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:ha: No one can take credit for winning a lottery. By that logic, Craig McTavish is a good GM because his actions led to McDavid.

Im not giving credit for winning a lottery... (although it's true that Murray engineered Eichel, while Botts lucked in to Dahlin).

My point is... if given the opportunity to undo Murray/Botts mistakes over the last half decade, I wouldn't take the chance of altering the outcome of where we are today.
 

Jame

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To me this indicates one of 2 things, neither good:

Either (a) Botts sucks at negotiating or (b) Botts sucks at evaluating talent (i.e. he thinks Sobotka will be a difference maker in the bottom six and Berglund will be a passable middle six option)

Or both...
 
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Team Cozens

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:ha: No one can take credit for winning a lottery. By that logic, Craig McTavish is a good GM because his actions led to McDavid.



It's miles ahead of

Scandella-Risto
Gorges-Bogosian
McCabe-Nelson

Our starting D for game 1 last year:

Beaulieu - Risto
Scandella - Tennyson
McCabe - Antipin

We didn't stand a chance.....
'
 

brian_griffin

"Eric Cartman?"
May 10, 2007
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In the Panderverse
Jeff Skinner is 200 pounds at 5'11" - surprising, he doesn't look that thick. oh that makes me sound old, *thicc

he looks taller and thinner the few times I’ve seen him play live.

A big reason as too why we have one of the best prospect pools in the NHL right now is, when Murray got fired we didn't have Rasmus Dahlin, we didn't have Casey Middlestadt that is one point right there,

<snipPed more good content>
I don’t think either TM or JB should receive credit for obvious draft picks. Similarly, while some of their picks and trades and signings are clear duds, others remain to be fully evaluated, and there are small handful which are clear “good moves”. Conversely they should neither be prematurely panned (Nylander still only 20yo) nor praised (Thompson, either singularly or as a settle vs a better Blues prospect).

These evaluations of the GMs are still unfinished stories. Let’s revisit again in 15 months. Sentiments change based on new data / understanding. Example:
@Jame has walked back a good bit of his Murray praise.
Agreed... the so called "Murray Gap" wasn't because of Murray's trades, it was because of the failed development of the last Regier wave of prospects.
I think we can all agree on that. Tear down started well. Players were then either rushed or not buffered in role / competitively challenged.
 

OkimLom

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Wow, this is some revisionist history. Armia, Zadorov, Compher, McNabb would all earn starting jobs in Buffalo today.

If they were still in Buffalo's development system??? Probably not. I'm pretty confident that Armia and McNabb wouldn't. We would probably be talking about Zadorov and rumors of trading him before he goes to the KHL. Compher is most likely fighting Asplund for #1 Center in Rochester.
 

flashsabre

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Apr 5, 2003
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Why are people still on about Murray? Why not Russ Brandon? What about Regier? Ted Black? Golisano not paying the co captains? The slimy Larry Quinn? The Rigases? They have all played a part in where the franchise is today but who cares at this point.

Can we just enjoy our new franchise Dman and the young talent around him moving forward rather then the same old arguments about the past that go nowhere. The Murray debate has gone on here a 100 times and no one has brought anything new to the table.
 
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AustonsNostrils

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Apr 5, 2016
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It's exciting we have some depth now with talented prospects who should compete for jobs THIS year but I watched a bunch of prospect tournament games, the rest of the league has the same, so much young talent skill. I want Pominville gone, I don't know enough about Sobotka to want him gone too.

Brannstrom looked fantastic for Vegas, if he plays like that in pre-season he will stick with them, at least for the 9 games they're allowed before burning a year off his ELC. There's a big winger from Sweden named Stenlund who Columbus drafted in the 2015 2nd round, he looks NHL ready.

I really hope Asplund and other prospects play well enough in pre-season games to earn roster spots.
 

Jame

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It's exciting we have some depth now with talented prospects who should compete for jobs THIS year but I watched a bunch of prospect tournament games, the rest of the league has the same, so much young talent skill. I want Pominville gone, I don't know enough about Sobotka to want him gone too.

Brannstrom looked fantastic for Vegas, if he plays like that in pre-season he will stick with them, at least for the 9 games they're allowed before burning a year off his ELC. There's a big winger from Sweden named Stenlund who Columbus drafted in the 2015 2nd round, he looks NHL ready.

I really hope Asplund and other prospects play well enough in pre-season games to earn roster spots.

I look at a team like New Jersey last year.... they didn't fill up their roster with garbage (sure, they had a piece or two), but they let Jesper Bratt win a job (a 19 year old, 6th round pick)... he played top 6 minutes game 1, while the filler (Drew Stafford) was relegated to the bottom of the lineup before hitting the press box.....

Miles Wood got his chance the prior year... as a 20 yr old, 4th rounder...

New Jersey was better for it... not only in the present, but in the long term as well.

(New Jersey stands out as an example because we played them in the first week or so of the season, and I remember my reaction was "who the f*** is Jesper Bratt" as he was lighting us up....)
 

La Cosa Nostra

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To say McNabb would have only done this or would have only been that if he stayed here is just false. He's a legit high end #3 dman after this past year. He would easily be in our top 4. I hated the deal from the very moment it happened and was very high on McNabb. He is literally what this blue line is missing.. a responsible player with some snarl and tenacity. But if he was still here we likely miss out on Dahlin.

I just want the season to start. This team easily is adding 20 points to their total. If they play to their ability then they have the chance to attain 90-95 points. They arent a cup contender but they can easily be a wild card team. Teams like Jersey, Philly and Florida are not heads and shoulders better. Buffalo is right there with them.

And the Berglund hate is laughable. He has scored 17+ goals every single season of his career. Hes a quality 2nd/3rd line vet forward and will replace 90% of RoRs goal scoring, and actually upgrade at ES goal scoring.
 
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