Roster Speculation, 2018 offseason Part 5/ Post-free agency edition

[SnuggaRUDE]

Bogosian was viewed more as a cap dump than a core piece in the Kane deal at the time of the trade.

And Moulson was more of a "culture" signing than a core player when he was re-signed. He was also signed at a time when they were more of a cap floor team than a cap team.

At the end of the day, there is a conversation about re-signing Reinhart and available cap space. And the Sabres have a lot of "bad contracts" on the books and they were acquired by both Murray and Botterill.

What!? Bogosian was viewed as a straight up for Myers piece. No one at the time viewed him as a camp dump or Murray would have been fired instantly.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Today... is not the same as the gap that existed a the last 3 years.

Zadorov and Compher is not a good point, as the return for those prospect was one of a top 20 NHL center in his prime.

Armia wasn't an NHLer until this past year...

McNabb was legit depth, and that turned out to be a terrible trade by Murray.

Murray tried to spin his prospects into current NHL production. It blew up in his face and created a gap. Compher, Zadorov, McNabb would have been quality pieces last season too.

 

[Jame]

People also ignore the depth that Murray subtly added:
Evan Rodrigues, Tim Scahller, William Carrier, CJ Smith, Casey Nelson, Derek Grant... all NHLers/borderline NHLers today... of course it's easier to scream about wasted draft picks and ignore actual talent acquired through other means....

 

[Icicle]

They won the draft lottery, signed an UDFA in Pilut, unwound the RoR & half the Kane trade, and looked like their 8th pick unexpectedly caught lightning in a bottle for 6 games.

So, half of it was lucky: lottery, Casey
A quarter of it was skill: unwinding RoR / Kane
And a quarter was a high variance event: Pilut

NB: I'm not suggesting trading RoR/Kane made the current team better, but it did/will go a long way to increasing prospect depth.

Skinner. Sheary. Thompson. 3 2019 1sts. Mitttelstadt/Dahlin. Hutton. Berglund.



Are you going to chalk up Skinner to luck, Hutton to high variance, and ignore Sheary?

 

[Jame]

Murray tried to spin his prospects into current NHL production. It blew up in his face and created a gap. Compher, Zadorov, McNabb would have been quality pieces last season too.

Yes, it did blow up in his face... but he filled the gap... people just ignore it...
Evan Rodrigues
Tim Scahller
William Carrier
CJ Smith
Casey Nelson
Derek Grant
etc

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Agreed... the so called "Murray Gap" wasn't because of Murray's trades, it was because of the failed development of the last Regier wave of prospects.

That, and stuff like Murray trading Pysyk for a pending UFA and not also taking a flier on an advanced stats darling like Wiercioch in case things went south.

The complete lack of contingency planning is what killed Murray.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Skinner. Sheary. Thompson. 3 2019 1sts. Mitttelstadt/Dahlin. Hutton. Berglund.



Are you going to chalk up Skinner to luck, Hutton to high variance, and ignore Sheary?

Only addressing prospect depth in that post. Skinner, Hutton and Sheary are NHL regulars. (and probably good gets).

 

[Jame]

So, if Murray doesn't do the Kane/Bogo trade.... sure, we have Armia and maybe Roslovic.... but we then probably don't have Rodrigues and CJ Smith.

Whatever differences there may be... it's not a massive organizational gap...

Sure.... the McNabb trade was moronic in hindsight... but without the gap, maybe Murray doesn't direct his guys to draft "all D" after Eichel... giving us Guhle and Borgen.

The Pysyk trade didn't work with regards to Kulikov... how's everyone feeling about Asplund though?

Murray failed... because his plan didn't work (accelerate) and he made a poor coaching. But the revisionist history is weak...

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

Yes, it did blow up in his face... but he filled the gap... people just ignore it...
Evan Rodrigues
Tim Scahller
William Carrier
CJ Smith
Casey Nelson
Derek Grant
etc

Yeah, it's basically a toss up between that group and Zadorov, Compher, McNabb, Colin White, and Roslovic...

 

[Jame]

That, and stuff like Murray trading Pysyk for a pending UFA and not also taking a flier on an advanced stats darling like Wiercioch in case things went south.

The complete lack of contingency planning is what killed Murray.

Murray and Botts have the same blind spot in that regard IMO.

 

[Jame]

Yeah, it's basically a toss up between that group and Zadorov, Compher, McNabb, Colin White, and Roslovic...

False narrative.
ROR > Zadarov, Compher

Try harder.

Everytime you mention Zadarov and Compher it's like you're screaming "Botteril wasted so much organizational depth acquiring Skinner for 1 year"

 

[Reddawg]

Armia wasn't an NHLer until this past year...

And then Winnipeg tossed him into a cap dump trade.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

False narrative.
ROR > Zadarov, Compher

Try harder.

You want to give Murray credit for bringing people in without examining who he sent out?

Try at all.

 

[Jame]

You want to give Murray credit for bringing people in without examining who he sent out?

Try at all.

That examination was finalized years ago... catch up

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

That examination was finalized years ago... catch up

You finalized his examination while he was still GM? Do you even check these posts for internal consistency? It's just relentless axe grinding.

 

[Jame]

You finalized his examination while he was still GM? Do you even check these posts for internal consistency? It's just relentless axe grinding.

Yea... I don't really know wtf you're talking about... over here we are talking about organizational depth, and the supposed gap that Murray created.

Some examples are legit, like Brayden McNabb and Mark Pysyk.

Other examples, like the ROR trade are not legit.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

The RoR trade may have been good value. Strategically it may have been unsound, because Murray over-pursued campaign of trading futures for current production. And then managed to get nothing out of his team.

 

[TehDoak]

Agreed... the so called "Murray Gap" wasn't because of Murray's trades, it was because of the failed development of the last Regier wave of prospects.

That's true of the forward group.

The defensive talent exodus is 100% on Murray. He went the opposite way of how the NHL was trending (moved out better skating, puck moving d-men and replaced them with slower, stay at home guys).

Moving out Myers, Pysyk, Zadorov, McNabb and replacing them with Bogosion, Gorges, Kulikov is a joke. Even if you'd do the RoR trade again.....imagine a blueline of:

Scandella-Myers
McNabb-Risto
Guhle-Psysyk

Last year, it's miles ahead of where we are at currently.

 

[Jame]

That's true of the forward group.

The defensive talent exodus is 100% on Murray. He went the opposite way of how the NHL was trending (moved out better skating, puck moving d-men and replaced them with slower, stay at home guys).

Moving out Myers, Pysyk, Zadorov, McNabb and replacing them with Bogosion, Gorges, Kulikov is a joke. Even if you'd do the RoR trade again.....imagine a blueline of:

Scandella-Myers
McNabb-Risto
Guhle-Psysyk

Last year, it's miles ahead of where we are at currently.

I’ll take Dahlin

 

[Reddawg]

I’ll take Dahlin

Exactly. Every misstep along the way delivered us a franchise defenseman. The complaining should end right there, but it never does.

 

[Jame]

Exactly. Every misstep along the way delivered us a franchise defenseman. The complaining should end right there, but it never does.

Agreed.... I wouldn't change anything over the last 6 years... it's all worth a core of Dahlin, Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts...

 

[26CornerBlitz]

 

[Aladyyn]

That's true of the forward group.

The defensive talent exodus is 100% on Murray. He went the opposite way of how the NHL was trending (moved out better skating, puck moving d-men and replaced them with slower, stay at home guys).

Moving out Myers, Pysyk, Zadorov, McNabb and replacing them with Bogosion, Gorges, Kulikov is a joke. Even if you'd do the RoR trade again.....imagine a blueline of:

Scandella-Myers
McNabb-Risto
Guhle-Psysyk

Last year, it's miles ahead of where we are at currently.

I'm sorry, is that supposed to be a good blueline????

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Agreed.... I wouldn't change anything over the last 6 years... it's all worth a core of Dahlin, Eichel, Reinhart, Mitts...

Murray wasn’t a failure because he sucked so bad we lucked into a lottery win for the best D prospect in 40 years. That’s a plan well executed. It was so perfectly executed that even that fraud Botts couldn’t screw it up.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I'm sorry, is that supposed to be a good blueline????

His point is that it's a lot better than Falk, Beaulieu, and Tennyson. Hard to argue. I'd take Myers, Pysyk, and McNabb over those three any day.