Roster Moves & Training Camp Discussion

[joestevens29]

Our biggest area of need is better 5v5 play and I don't believe we are much if any better 5v5. On top of that our special teams, both PK and PP, are drastically different.

I've often thought coaching was a big factor to success at the nhl level. I think that twice as much for the Oilers. On top of that with significant personal changes Tippett has his work cut out. Plus less time and no preseason.

Not to give the players a free pass but I can't remember a season where going into it the coach is the primary reason for success or failure. Imo.

There is a lot of things the players have to do better. It's been identified by fans, media and even the coaches.

One stat that still gets me is Kassian being did last in blocked shots per 60. And it showed in the play ins. Not enough guys are getting into the lanes to prevent shots from hitting the net. Even when he was on the PK in 18-19 he simply wasn't getting the blocked shots.

Now I'm not suggesting or guys have to get down and block every shot going at the net, but we need to be blocking those lanes and in proper position for puck retrieval. Far too often the opposition is getting pucks through or being able to get to the pucks a lot easier than our guys. Can't tell me the coaching staff isn't telling these guys where to be in different situations.

With the amount of extras we have, guys are simply not going to have the leash they use to have.

 

[joestevens29]

To be honest, I actually think the separation of 97 from 29 is a huge factor here as well. It creates a matchup nightmare for opponents. Both 97 and 29 are a year older as well, and seem very aware of what needs to happen for the team to take that next step. I expect better defensive awareness, and maybe less points because of it, from both of them this year. I still think that McDavid could have a supersonic-type season, but he's just so good that I think he might be able to increase his defense AND offence in the same season, but if I had to guess which one made the improvement, it would be defense.

I honestly don't even know what McDavid could do offensively to be better. I think him being better defensively could actually impact his offense a lot more than him trying to work on being better offensively.

If this kid ever became one of those nuts that studies game film he could very scary, especially in a year where you are only playing 6 other teams.

 

[Aerchon]

What makes you think this year's bottom six won't be better at 5v5 than last year's?

Turris, Barrie, and Ennis are not known for great 2 way play.

Puljujarvi and Kahun are wild cards.

The top 6 isn't any better 5v5 compared to last year's play ins.

No Klefbom.

Koskinen a bit of a wild card imo.

Smith all but guaranteed a disaster imo.

I see a team that won on special teams last year which is unlikely to continue on a historical level. That has improved goal scoring but if anything a potential for even more goals against.

 

[FlameChampion]

I know it seems very minor to some degree, but Struds has really been banging the PK change drum a lot and got me thinking

Sheahan and Khaira were #1 and #4 from a forward standpoint. Klef and Russell were #1 and #4.

With the talk yesterday that Russell might be out and Koekkoek in I wonder how much 4 player personnel change is going to have.

I think one of the huge problems with our PK though was certain players were good on the PK but than they would get caved in on 5 on 5. (The other problem is that you had guys like Neal on the PP who wasnt good 5 on 5 either - but this is a PK discussion). So it just feels like whatever good they did on the PK they gave it back on the 5 on 5. I think the team probably needs to figure out to make themselves better 5 on 5 while maintaining a good PK (which is probably easier said than done). I think they have improved their roster for 5 on 5 but I really dont know what to truly expect from the PK this year.

I think the PK is going to regress this year. I think its pretty much a given considering it was #2. I wouldnt be surprised to see it kinda drop to middle of the pack in the league.

I dont really think the PK is/was sustainable from last year though. Even if we had the same players this year, I think we were either lucky to be second or Playfair has something good going on tactically. Maybe I am naive and dont understand hockey well enough from an x an o's point of view but I have a bit of a hard understanding what made our PK so good last year? You have to give the players credit obviously, and a large portion is because of them but I'm not really sure that its the largest reason. I actually wouldnt mind some of your guys thoughts on what made our PK good last year.

I do think Sheahan was a good penalty killer. The guy did get caved in 5 on 5 though. I think he played too much as a 3C though. I think I would of preferred him as the 4C over Shore this year but I am guessing he outpriced himself and Holland moved on. I think Nygard - Sheahan - Archibald was a fairly good line and could of got the job done as fourth line this year as opposed as a third line last year.

I personally dont think Khaira is a good penalty killer. His numbers were good last year but I am not sure I see any traits from his game that make me think he should be a good PK'er. I could be wrong but I dont think his PK numbers are sustainable.

I do think Russell is a good PK'er. I think having Koekkoek in the line up over him is going to help 5 on 5 but the PK is surely going to fall because of it. I think you do have to give Russell some credit for some things and the PK is a part of it.

I do think that Barrie can replace Klefbom on the powerplay. I do think 5 on 5, the extra puck transition should help the team. (I consider Klefbom an average puck mover). But to be honest, I probably have overlooked Klefboms time on the PK more than I should of. Thats probably going to be hard to replace.

 

[McTonyBrar]

No idea why so much of the media is so high on the Canadiens. To me, they look terrible. What am I missing here?

Toffoli and Anderson > McDavid and Draisaitl

 

[yukoner88]

Toffoli and Anderson > McDavid and Draisaitl

Dont forget the annual Carey Price circle jerk

 

[FlameChampion]

I honestly don't even know what McDavid could do offensively to be better. I think him being better defensively could actually impact his offense a lot more than him trying to work on being better offensively.

If this kid ever became one of those nuts that studies game film he could very scary, especially in a year where you are only playing 6 other teams.

I dont think that McDavid is that bad defensively. But he was last year I think because he was afraid to really engage on defenders (he would just allow guys to go untouched into the slot), which I think was because of his injury. Hes always been prone to flying the zone early but I dont remember him being that bad defensively in previous years (I could be wrong though). If it was the case of his injury and getting reinjured, its hard to really blame him too much considering the extent of the injury. I wonder how much defense we will see him play this year though.

I think if the team could ever get a third line going that actually score more goals than they allow or at the very least break even, it might allow McDavid/Draisaitl to focus on their overall games more. Theres just too many times in previous seasons, where it feels like the team is waiting for McDavid/Draisaitl to do something. I imagine that the both of them feel tremendous pressure to produce, because they havent won many games when they havent.

 

[bellagiobob]

No idea why so much of the media is so high on the Canadiens. To me, they look terrible. What am I missing here?

Their own media will rip them to shreds after their first two game losing streak. Always unicorns and rainbows before the season starts, then reality kicks in. A very average team.

 

[Aerchon]

I dont think that McDavid is that bad defensively. But he was last year I think because he was afraid to really engage on defenders (he would just allow guys to go untouched into the slot), which I think was because of his injury. Hes always been prone to flying the zone early but I dont remember him being that bad defensively in previous years (I could be wrong though). If it was the case of his injury and getting reinjured, its hard to really blame him too much considering the extent of the injury. I wonder how much defense we will see him play this year though.

I think if the team could ever get a third line going that actually score more goals than they allow or at the very least break even, it might allow McDavid/Draisaitl to focus on their overall games more. Theres just too many times in previous seasons, where it feels like the team is waiting for McDavid/Draisaitl to do something. I imagine that the both of them feel tremendous pressure to produce, because they havent won many games when they havent.

McDavid has been very inconsistent with his 2 way play. At times brilliant even for long stretches. But the majority... He bad and it can't all be blamed on injury. His previous year he wasn't great either.

He plays 3 minutes more a night than say Kucherov. He shouldn't be used as much as he is. If they dialed him back a bit I think his energy goes up a bit. Split the PP more evenly rather than having him on the full 2 min.

But at the end of the day it's on him and I think his play speaks volumes. I believe he is far more concerned about points and trophies than his team winning.

Our top 6 has... decent support now. Talent enough to "help". Our bottom 6 talent enough to chip in. McDavid needs to trust his team to score and play a 2 way game. What he clearly doesn't understand is that if he is more patient and back checks as hard as he plays in the offensive zone he ends with a +20 5v5 goal differential and helps his team win that much more.

A lot of what I said applies to Draisaitl as well. If our top 2 lines was eating a +20 5v5 goal differential each our bottom 6 could be meh at best and we make the playoffs easily.

 

[joestevens29]

I think one of the huge problems with our PK though was certain players were good on the PK but than they would get caved in on 5 on 5. (The other problem is that you had guys like Neal on the PP who wasnt good 5 on 5 either - but this is a PK discussion). So it just feels like whatever good they did on the PK they gave it back on the 5 on 5. I think the team probably needs to figure out to make themselves better 5 on 5 while maintaining a good PK (which is probably easier said than done). I think they have improved their roster for 5 on 5 but I really dont know what to truly expect from the PK this year.

.

I agree 100% and obviously it was something that Holland realized he had to try fix. With limited cap space he took some shots and at least brought in some guys that could do something for the team. One of them in Archibald at least they realized could do more than just PK.

Now it's about finding more of these guys that have more use than just special teams.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Turris, Barrie, and Ennis are not known for great 2 way play.

Puljujarvi and Kahun are wild cards.

The top 6 isn't any better 5v5 compared to last year's play ins.

No Klefbom.

Koskinen a bit of a wild card imo.

Smith all but guaranteed a disaster imo.

I see a team that won on special teams last year which is unlikely to continue on a historical level. That has improved goal scoring but if anything a potential for even more goals against.

This is just wrong. Kahun is better than whoever we had as last options in the top 6 last year.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

I love Klefbom, I'm one of his biggest fans, but he had poor relative numbers and took a shitkicking 5v5.

With Barrie taking his PP minutes and Jones taking his EV minutes, I think we're ok.

 

[joestevens29]

I love Klefbom, I'm one of his biggest fans, but he had poor relative numbers and took a shitkicking 5v5.

With Barrie taking his PP minutes and Jones taking his EV minutes, I think we're ok.

I never did like how much he was playing and given what we've heard about him playing with pain I still can't wrap my head around why he was getting so much time. Sure options were limited, but a guy playing hurt shouldn't have been getting 25+ minutes a night.

 

[Samus44]

I never did like how much he was playing and given what we've heard about him playing with pain I still can't wrap my head around why he was getting so much time. Sure options were limited, but a guy playing hurt shouldn't have been getting 25+ minutes a night.

Yeah that's tough but I'm sure with everyone being adults and Klefbom contemplating his career it may have been a mutual decision. If I was Klefbom and I didn't know if I was going to play again I probably would have said f*** it and played through it too. I do think the Oilers felt the PP time was easier minutes and likely didn't consider that too detrimental. The real shame is the year he kept playing despite the team being ass. Last year the team was trying to win it all, Holland was trying to send a message to the group that everyone needs to do their part including him and that's why he was active at the deadline. The Oilers needed a strong year and they rode Klefbom for it. It's tough but at least they were competing for the division and not a lottery pick.

 

[Drivesaitl]

There is a lot of things the players have to do better. It's been identified by fans, media and even the coaches.

One stat that still gets me is Kassian being did last in blocked shots per 60. And it showed in the play ins. Not enough guys are getting into the lanes to prevent shots from hitting the net. Even when he was on the PK in 18-19 he simply wasn't getting the blocked shots.

Now I'm not suggesting or guys have to get down and block every shot going at the net, but we need to be blocking those lanes and in proper position for puck retrieval. Far too often the opposition is getting pucks through or being able to get to the pucks a lot easier than our guys. Can't tell me the coaching staff isn't telling these guys where to be in different situations.

With the amount of extras we have, guys are simply not going to have the leash they use to have.

Its an indication of which players are consistently dialed in and which are not. Kass has been iffy on several categories and I suggest that he's had a whole lot more up and down than is generally thought. For a player that we rescued from the garbage heap I would wish for some more consistent contributions from him.

 

[McDNicks17]

There is a lot of things the players have to do better. It's been identified by fans, media and even the coaches.

One stat that still gets me is Kassian being did last in blocked shots per 60. And it showed in the play ins. Not enough guys are getting into the lanes to prevent shots from hitting the net. Even when he was on the PK in 18-19 he simply wasn't getting the blocked shots.

Now I'm not suggesting or guys have to get down and block every shot going at the net, but we need to be blocking those lanes and in proper position for puck retrieval. Far too often the opposition is getting pucks through or being able to get to the pucks a lot easier than our guys. Can't tell me the coaching staff isn't telling these guys where to be in different situations.

With the amount of extras we have, guys are simply not going to have the leash they use to have.

To be fair, it's pretty much only defenseman blocking shots on the PK.

RNH and Brodziak had the lion's share of PK time in 18-19 and they combined for 7 blocked shots on the PK. (Kassian had 4.)

 

[Draiskull]

Turris, Barrie, and Ennis are not known for great 2 way play.

Puljujarvi and Kahun are wild cards.

The top 6 isn't any better 5v5 compared to last year's play ins.

No Klefbom.

Koskinen a bit of a wild card imo.

Smith all but guaranteed a disaster imo.

I see a team that won on special teams last year which is unlikely to continue on a historical level. That has improved goal scoring but if anything a potential for even more goals against.

It really depends on what you want to see.
I have seen arguments by non-Oil fans that we only have 3 true NHL forwards and rest are fringe AHL\NHL players who either have proven nothing or\and would easily pass through waivers.

When it comes to Kahun, Turris, Kassian, Yama, Pulju, Khaira etc as fans we are hoping for the higher end version of them and not what opponents see.

Time will tell but Puljujarvi, Kahun, Turris in top 9 over AA and whatever else we had last season is improvement offensively and defensively for me.

 

[McJadeddog]

Turris, Barrie, and Ennis are not known for great 2 way play.

Puljujarvi and Kahun are wild cards.

The top 6 isn't any better 5v5 compared to last year's play ins.

No Klefbom.

Koskinen a bit of a wild card imo.

Smith all but guaranteed a disaster imo.

I see a team that won on special teams last year which is unlikely to continue on a historical level. That has improved goal scoring but if anything a potential for even more goals against.

You honestly don't think that having Kahun in the top 6 is better than having Archibald? Really?

 

[CycloneSweep]

When our team puts in the effort and gives a shit we can dominate a game. The biggest problem with this team is heart and give a shit. On paper there is zero reason this team shouldn't make the playoffs easily. But people are always down on the Oilers cause no matter who they have on the the, the teams effort is rarely there. How many times in the last few years have the Oilers rolled over for 2 periods, have an incredible 3rd but just come up too short?

All this team needs to learn is to play for 60 minutes and they will win more than they lose

 

[McTonyBrar]

Turris, Barrie, and Ennis are not known for great 2 way play.

Puljujarvi and Kahun are wild cards.

The top 6 isn't any better 5v5 compared to last year's play ins.

No Klefbom.

Koskinen a bit of a wild card imo.

Smith all but guaranteed a disaster imo.

I see a team that won on special teams last year which is unlikely to continue on a historical level. That has improved goal scoring but if anything a potential for even more goals against.

The top six isn't any better 5 v 5 compared to last years play ins... WHAT??

Kahun, Yamamoto, RNH, Kassian/JP on our wings with Turris as a 3rd line C and Ennis as a top 9 winger. How are not all of these wingers better, 5 v 5, than the wingers from last season?

 

[McTonyBrar]

When our team puts in the effort and gives a shit we can dominate a game. The biggest problem with this team is heart and give a shit. On paper there is zero reason this team shouldn't make the playoffs easily. But people are always down on the Oilers cause no matter who they have on the the, the teams effort is rarely there. How many times in the last few years have the Oilers rolled over for 2 periods, have an incredible 3rd but just come up too short?

All this team needs to learn is to play for 60 minutes and they will win more than they lose

Isn't almost every teams biggest fault their consistency lol?

 

[Tobias Kahun]

When our team puts in the effort and gives a shit we can dominate a game. The biggest problem with this team is heart and give a shit. On paper there is zero reason this team shouldn't make the playoffs easily. But people are always down on the Oilers cause no matter who they have on the the, the teams effort is rarely there. How many times in the last few years have the Oilers rolled over for 2 periods, have an incredible 3rd but just come up too short?

All this team needs to learn is to play for 60 minutes and they will win more than they lose

It's the NHL, very few teams play good to great hockey for 60 minutes, theres such things as momentum shifts.

 

[bone]

You honestly don't think that having Kahun in the top 6 is better than having Archibald? Really?

The top six isn't any better 5 v 5 compared to last years play ins... WHAT??

Kahun, Yamamoto, RNH, Kassian/JP on our wings with Turris as a 3rd line C and Ennis as a top 9 winger. How are not all of these wingers better, 5 v 5, than the wingers from last season?

It remains to be seen if he indeed is, but wasn't the 6th Ennis until he got hurt.

5 of the top 6 are exactly the same.
I definitely prefer the chances that Kahun is better than Ennis as the final guy in the top 6.
I like Turris better than Sheahan overall at 3C.
JP over AA remains to be seen, but I'm hopeful that's an improvement.
I like Ennis, Chiasson, and Neal batlling for the last two winger spots better than Neal, Chiasson and Russell.
I also prefer Khaira, Shore and Haas battling for 4th C better than just Khaira and Haas battling for it.

When you look at it player by player it's not super glaring that it will be better, but if Kahun is the real deal and JP takes a bit step, it all of the sudden becomes a lot better. But I don't see the horse for PK.

 

[Samus44]

To be fair, it's pretty much only defenseman blocking shots on the PK.

RNH and Brodziak had the lion's share of PK time in 18-19 and they combined for 7 blocked shots on the PK. (Kassian had 4.)

Reasonable point and this is no criticism of you but it should be said that it's less about blocks and more about forcing a difficult shot or pass by being there. The type of dmen QBing a PP in the NHL today are quite good at getting pucks past the first layer and that's expected but letting them tee up bombs is a recipe for success and that showed against Chicago.

 

[wingsfan17]

Neal is ruled out because of COVID protocols, but be was allowed to practice with the team during training camp? I am confused