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Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXIX

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SA16

SA16

Sixstring
Aug 25, 2006
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eco's bones said:
They're a lot more probable than we are and if Panarin does sign with them that just increases the likelihood. They've also got a pretty good chance of winning the division this year (despite or) because their goaltending has been pretty good.
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More probable, yes, but I think we do need to consider that they are probably the flukiest team in the playoffs in the East right now. They've been better but we are still talking about a team with the 8th worst CF% in the league (16th since January) who scores at a league average rate who is getting by solely due to unprecedented play from their two goaltenders. They don't have a good PP, their PK allows the 2nd most shot attempts in the league (4th most shots), and they are below average overall on the PK despite again extremely good goaltending. They are actually the 7th lowest scoring 5v5 team since January just now they're up to .946 goaltending in that time frame. It's not going to continue.
 
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I Eat Crow

I Eat Crow

Fear The Mullet
Jul 9, 2007
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RangerBoy said:
Kreider's name is out there. If the Rangers weren't talking to teams about him, his name wouldn't be out there. TSN has him on their trade list. Why is Kreider such as indispensable part? He is very overrated by the Rangers fanbase. Every year it's the same thing with him. This is the year he breaks out. Next year is the year he breaks out. He has 4 goals in the last 22 games. His last goal was 7 games ago against Los Angeles. Kreider had 20 goals on December 29. He was pace for 44 goals. Now he is pace for 33. That number goes down every game. 28 goals is his career high. He will be 29 when his next contract begins. Look at the aging curves. A 5-6 year contract takes him to 34-35 at the end of that contract. He will not be a productive player for most of that contract. Ages 30/31 to the end. Kreider is a nice guy and everything but let another team pay him.

Teams didn't want to give Machado and Harper crazy term because analytics are so good. The Padres were desperate and they weren't the player's top ten choice of teams. Players decline in their early to mid 30's in baseball and teams didn't want to be left holding the bag. The Yankees didn't want to do it. Everyone had them signing one of those players to a 10 year plus contract. The Yankees employ 20 people in their analytics department. It's much earlier in hockey. The decline begins at the start of Kreider's next contract.
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I still think Kreider gets dealt at the draft. Teams will still pay a nice price for a full year and playoffs of Kreider, but I don't think he gets dealt within thr week unless a team blows the Rangers doors off with an offer.

We're talking Nylander and Liljegren from Toronto. Fiala and Fabbro or Tolvanen from Nashville. DeBrusk and Vaakanainen from Boston, etc.
 
pld459666

pld459666

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I hear this on the Rumors board all the time that there are more sellers than buyers, yet in the west, there are 3 points separating 6 teams for the last WC spot.

6 points separate 7 teams for the last two WC spots.

Not to mention those teams that are in the POs looking solidify their teams and positions in the standings.

Personally, I think it's just another HF group think mentality.

The goal is to win a cup and GMs, if they believe anything can happen in the POs, will make moves, within reason, to get into the second season.

I think once the first impactful deal gets done, there are going to be some surprises.

I'm looking at AZ, Van, Chi and possibly Colorado
 
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Salvage21

Salvage21

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I’m all for trading Kreider- if there’s a deal that makes sense for the Rangers. High draft pick or a Zbad for Bassard type deal..

But i completely disagree that Kreider will not be a productive player at 30/31. Barring some freak injuries - he’s going to stop going into the paint? He’s not going to be able to rip shots off the rush? Maybe he’ll lose a step. Maybe. But he’ll still be a faster skater than 80% of the league.

I can see a case being made for whether he’s worth 7 million dollar contract, sure. But if that’s all the cost and there is no deal out that that will bring back a young, top line player then I see no reason to move him. He’s a great team guy. Honestly, I’d be more inclined to give him “C” than anyone else currently on the team.
 
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eco's bones

eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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SA16 said:
More probable, yes, but I think we do need to consider that they are probably the flukiest team in the playoffs in the East right now. They've been better but we are still talking about a team with the 8th worst CF% in the league (16th since January) who scores at a league average rate who is getting by solely due to unprecedented play from their two goaltenders. They don't have a good PP, their PK allows the 2nd most shot attempts in the league (4th most shots), and they are below average overall on the PK despite again extremely good goaltending. They are actually the 7th lowest scoring 5v5 team since January just now they're up to .946 goaltending in that time frame. It's not going to continue.
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Put it this way if I were scoping out the NYC area and was just ranking which of the three teams were most likely to make the playoffs or contend in any way--at this point I would pick the Islanders.

I know a lot of Rangers fans as well have this idea that Panarin is coming our way. People set their sights on things and later they're disappointed. Maybe he does come here though but it ain't a slam dunk--not for him and not for anyone else.
 
eco's bones

eco's bones

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Jul 21, 2005
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I think the Rangers have every intention of putting at least as competitive team on the ice next year as they have this year. I don't think we're moving Kreider. I don't think we're pulling the rug out from under Quinn and his coaching staff.
 
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Webster

Webster

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Irishguy42 said:
It is irresponsible to play your big trade chips this close to the deadline. That's on Gorton.

Imagine Hayes or Zuccarello get injured before the TDL. Poof. There goes a few first/second round picks and prospects, and now you're forced to either lose them to free agency for nothing, get a low round picks for their UFA rights (like Yandle), or sign them to expensive extensions. None of these options are in the team's best interest.

Also, Quinn doesn't care. He will play the players provided to him. He understands that this is a business. He's even said as much. Multiple times. The team will try to win games with whatever lineup they have.
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Gorton isn't doing anything wrong, because he's also talking to their agents about a possible extension. This means there's no decision that Hayes and Zucc will be traded no matter what. Gorton is obviously weighing trade offers against team value.

I'm sure Quinn wants to keep Zucc. He's basically driving this team and plays 25 mins a game.
 
NYR Viper

NYR Viper

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Salvage21 said:
I’m all for trading Kreider- if there’s a deal that makes sense for the Rangers. High draft pick or a Zbad for Bassard type deal..

But i completely disagree that Kreider will not be a productive player at 30/31. Barring some freak injuries - he’s going to stop going into the paint? He’s not going to be able to rip shots off the rush? Maybe he’ll lose a step. Maybe. But he’ll still be a faster skater than 80% of the league.

I can see a case being made for whether he’s worth 7 million dollar contract, sure. But if that’s all the cost and there is no deal out that that will bring back a young, top line player then I see no reason to move him. He’s a great team guy. Honestly, I’d be more inclined to give him “C” than anyone else currently on the team.
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It's not so much 31 where I fear his play, it's 32, 33, 34, 35, 36 (as I think he gets a 7 year deal).

One must also remember that the league itself is getting faster every year. Will he keep that edge in speed
 
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ThirdEye

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Nov 28, 2006
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No one is talking about Vesey, but he's having by far his best season so far. I think they can easily get a 2nd for him and a decent prospect

Depends on how much they want to gut this team
 
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LaffyTaffy

LaffyTaffy

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Feb 1, 2016
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Oscar Lindberg said:
McQuaid is going today I can feel it

And last night should be the last game Hayes and Zucc plays
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I was thinking this last night but also i have no idea whats going on, i thought we would start bubble wrapping days ago. I feel something in Ottawa explodes today and sets the dominoes a fallin
 
Off Sides

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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pld459666 said:
I hear this on the Rumors board all the time that there are more sellers than buyers, yet in the west, there are 3 points separating 6 teams for the last WC spot.

6 points separate 7 teams for the last two WC spots.

Not to mention those teams that are in the POs looking solidify their teams and positions in the standings.

Personally, I think it's just another HF group think mentality.

The goal is to win a cup and GMs, if they believe anything can happen in the POs, will make moves, within reason, to get into the second season.

I think once the first impactful deal gets done, there are going to be some surprises.

I'm looking at AZ, Van, Chi and possibly Colorado
Click to expand...

The market does change, some years more 1st move than in other years, so on so forth, yet in my opinion the Rangers have so much flexibility in what they could move and take back I think if they are willing to be creative, maybe take a hair cut on the return here or there while thinking of it more as the whole package of returns combined instead of holding out too much for one for one value they will end up with pretty close to the same futures as they did last deadline.

Looking at it through those optics, the Rangers sort of replaying last years deadline and draft is what a rebuilding team should be looking to do.

If they need to back fill with some mediocre level vets, should they have not already taken back some at the deadline, it's not like those vets are going to be in huge demand on the UFA or trade market this summer.
 
Fitzy

Fitzy

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Jan 29, 2009
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It seems likely to me that Duchene is the prize of the deadline, and so a lot hinges on when he eventually is dealt.
 
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Amazing Kreiderman

Amazing Kreiderman

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Apr 11, 2011
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Webster said:
Gorton isn't doing anything wrong, because he's also talking to their agents about a possible extension. This means there's no decision that Hayes and Zucc will be traded no matter what. Gorton is obviously weighing trade offers against team value.

I'm sure Quinn wants to keep Zucc. He's basically driving this team and plays 25 mins a game.
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Remember Webster. Check out on Monday is at noon
 
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Off Sides

Off Sides

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Sep 8, 2008
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Rangers talking to Hayes, Zucc could be as simple as them seeing what they'd go down to in an extension, however it could also be them asking them which teams they may be willing to extend with post their trade. If they can find a match, and allow them negotiating rights prior to the trade, the return is different than it is if they are pure rentals.
 
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