Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XXII

[Kovalev27]

I think there’s a much much better shot of hank retiring than being traded.

 

[ElLeetch]

I am ok with this plan. Let him keep his 10 team NTC.

I would even go 4 years @ $7.25. 5 years @ $7.

You can move Buchnevich in the offseason.

I think we try to move him this offseason anyway, regardless of the other contracts. I like Buch, but i don't see him long-term with this team. too much of a passenger most nights.

 

[rangers1314]

I think there’s a much much better shot of hank retiring than being traded.

He has 5.5 coming to him next season. Doubt it.

 

[BKGooner]

Trouba is an extremely important player for the Rangers and having him allows Fox and DeAngelo to play to their strengths. Having a guy with size, strength and a degree of meanness who can play 25 minutes a night is important and no one's arguing that DeAngelo or Fox aren't better offensively (though Trouba's pretty good offensively) but you also need someone who can handle defensive situations because there will always be penalties to kill and top players to defend against. That is not DeAngelo's strength and those are not situations you want to put a smallish first year pro like Fox up against all that much either. Trouba's really the anchor of the defense or the player we're constructing are defense around---we needed to move on from the Shattenkirk experiment because he's not someone you can construct a defense around---he's not the kind of player either who gives someone like DeAngelo much room to grow or play to his strengths.

Further to this point, if the Rangers go with smallish offensively aggresive D behind Trouba, they need to be balanced by bigger, stronger, more responsible partners on the left. And since this is 2020, these hypothetical beasts better be able to skate too. You could see the weakness at the start of the second last night when the Isles forecheck was shellacking the Ranger D and working both dmen from corner to corner. A bigger more skilled version of that would wipe this team out in a playoff series. Lindgren plays a heavy game, but he doesn't have the size to really match a big determined forward group.. If Miller develops the right way it's such a benefit for this team, especially if management can find a similar big body with some skill.

 

[True Blue]

lindholm and ekholm don’t bring what Trouba brings not even close. He’s 25 years old you are paying for his prime years. He’s a beast on both ends. Don’t think for a second fox and DeAngelo are having the seasons they’re having without Trouba doing most of the heavy lifting. It’s a tremendous mix love what we did with those 3.

People seem to want to ignore that. DeAngelo & Fox are not having the type of season that they are having if they had to play Trouba's minutes and have his situational usage.

 

[Leetch3]

No, but it's tough to pay top dollar for even one goalie. Are you proposing to pay two? To then have one of them sit on the bench most games...?

this is not an either/or situation...neither goalie is even a starter yet and are certainly no where near being paid top dollar. lots of teams have 2 goalies. paying georgiev about $3 mil while shesterkin is on his ELC is a non-issue...the situation you are talking about, if it ever happens, is several years down the road. no one is saying you keep both guys forever, but why not want them to platoon for the next couple years until one PROVES they are the better one?

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement? I don't want theories, speculations, "this trade doesn't happen in a vacuum" or "they'll make other moves." Who is the guy? Is it the player they take at 28 with the pick they get for him? Or the B prospect? Is it Frederic or Gauthier? An impending UFA? A change of scenery guy? Name names.

Kreider scored 28 goals last year, only 58 players scored 28 or more. There's over 600 players in the league. That's less than 2 per team. Add in his play in front of the net. How many other guys play that way? How many goals has Kreider caused just by screening the goalie, that he doesn't get credit for on the stat sheet? He leads the league in deflections over the last three years. Who's the guy that's just as big and also one of the fastest players in the league? Can anyone name one guy that does what Kreider does and can reasonably be obtained by the Rangers in the next two seasons? Anyone?

This team needs more Kreiders, not less.

 

[NYSPORTS]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement?
.

Kakko

he’s not ready yet but this team isn’t a contender either. IMO, you do not tie up money with aging vets during a rebuild. That’s why it’s a rebuild. With so many defensemen, I think the Rangers will have to trade for some for simply lack of space. Likely other forwards will be obtained. Meanwhile, the team still has 3 goalies.

 

[Kovalev27]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement? I don't want theories, speculations, "this trade doesn't happen in a vacuum" or "they'll make other moves." Who is the guy? Is it the player they take at 28 with the pick they get for him? Or the B prospect? Is it Frederic or Gauthier? An impending UFA? A change of scenery guy? Name names.

Kreider scored 28 goals last year, only 58 players scored 28 or more. There's over 600 players in the league. That's less than 2 per team. Add in his play in front of the net. How many other guys play that way? How many goals has Kreider caused just by screening the goalie, that he doesn't get credit for on the stat sheet? He leads the league in deflections over the last three years. Who's the guy that's just as big and also one of the fastest players in the league? Can anyone name one guy that does what Kreider does and can reasonably be obtained by the Rangers in the next two seasons? Anyone?

This team needs more Kreiders, not less.

could be a decade or longer before they find a guy like that. Let alone during this upcoming window of being a contender. We’re closer to being a contender with Kreider than without. Not to mention the chemistry on and off the ice with our most important player Mika Zibanejad

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

Kakko

he’s not ready yet but this team isn’t a contender either. IMO, you do not tie up money with aging vets during a rebuild. That’s why it’s a rebuild. With so many defensemen, I think the Rangers will have to trade for some for simply lack of space. Likely other forwards will be obtained. Meanwhile, the team still has 3 goalies.

Kako's a right wing. Even if you say Kakko takes his spot, you now need two right wings to fill out your top 6. The three goalie situation has not changed the Kreider situation in the slightest.

 

[NYSPORTS]

Kako's a right wing. Even if you say Kakko takes his spot, you now need two right wings to fill out your top 6. The three goalie situation has not changed the Kreider situation in the slightest.

I get it. I’m talking power forward. Nobody wanted to part ways with Zuccarello either. Wanted to keep McDonagh, we’re heartbroken when Stepan left and some want to extend Hank. It’s a rebuild.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I get it. I’m talking power forward. Nobody wanted to part ways with Zuccarello either. Wanted to keep McDonagh, we’re heartbroken when Stepan left and some want to extend Hank. It’s a rebuild.

Zuc was 32. Kakko is not a power forward and plays the right side. They didn't want to pay McDonagh, different position. Stepan was slow and didn't put work in. Trade Kreider and the rebuild takes even longer. What else you got?

 

[TheBloodyNine]

I get it. I’m talking power forward. Nobody wanted to part ways with Zuccarello either. Wanted to keep McDonagh, we’re heartbroken when Stepan left and some want to extend Hank. It’s a rebuild.

Personally I fully supported each and every one of those players being dealt.

 

[Edge]

I don't think there's anything left to debate on this. The polls say what they say, and the points have been made. You either agree with it or you don't at this point.

 

[NYRangers0723]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement? I don't want theories, speculations, "this trade doesn't happen in a vacuum" or "they'll make other moves." Who is the guy? Is it the player they take at 28 with the pick they get for him? Or the B prospect? Is it Frederic or Gauthier? An impending UFA? A change of scenery guy? Name names.

Kreider scored 28 goals last year, only 58 players scored 28 or more. There's over 600 players in the league. That's less than 2 per team. Add in his play in front of the net. How many other guys play that way? How many goals has Kreider caused just by screening the goalie, that he doesn't get credit for on the stat sheet? He leads the league in deflections over the last three years. Who's the guy that's just as big and also one of the fastest players in the league? Can anyone name one guy that does what Kreider does and can reasonably be obtained by the Rangers in the next two seasons? Anyone?

This team needs more Kreiders, not less.

Great Post!!!

 

[broadwayblue]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement? I don't want theories, speculations, "this trade doesn't happen in a vacuum" or "they'll make other moves." Who is the guy? Is it the player they take at 28 with the pick they get for him? Or the B prospect? Is it Frederic or Gauthier? An impending UFA? A change of scenery guy? Name names.

Kreider scored 28 goals last year, only 58 players scored 28 or more. There's over 600 players in the league. That's less than 2 per team. Add in his play in front of the net. How many other guys play that way? How many goals has Kreider caused just by screening the goalie, that he doesn't get credit for on the stat sheet? He leads the league in deflections over the last three years. Who's the guy that's just as big and also one of the fastest players in the league? Can anyone name one guy that does what Kreider does and can reasonably be obtained by the Rangers in the next two seasons? Anyone?

This team needs more Kreiders, not less.

They absolutely do. I'll be the first to admit that. But they need those guys to be younger...not at the peak of their performance looking for a big pay day as they enter the beginning of their decline.

 

[nyr2k2]

I'm becoming more okay with the 3-goalie rotation. If the Rangers play it cool, and act like they'd seriously consider going into next year using it, that increases their leverage when it comes to trading Georgiev as he'd no longer be viewed as a guy the Rangers have to trade.

I saw Mirtle said the Rangers want a young roster player for him. Not futures. And that's been the holdup with the Leafs.

 

[Edge]

I really don't think this debate, even internally, ever comes down to whether Kreider brings value or doesn't bring something the Rangers really need.

The debate, always comes down to cost, fitting that in as we move forward, and the age range. Even internally, there's always been some desire to keep Kreider, but those three other issues cause concern --- and understandably so.

I think it's a lot easier for many people to find comfort with Kreider under contract from age 25-29 at $4 million, than it is finding comfort in Kreider under contract from age 29-35+ at $7 million. That's a significant difference in context. And it's that context that is subject to debate.

Not whether Kreider has unique skills. Or that said skills are highly desirable. Or that finding another Kreider is a particularly easy job. It's whether the terms of extending the relationship allow the Rangers to do what they think they're going to have to do in the coming years. Whether that's future moves, or an uncertainty as to how he ages, or whether they want to apply their capped resources differently, that's what the team is weighing.

I think we keep drifting away from that aspect.

 

[QJL]

I'm becoming more okay with the 3-goalie rotation. If the Rangers play it cool, and act like they'd seriously consider going into next year using it, that increases their leverage when it comes to trading Georgiev as he'd no longer be viewed as a guy the Rangers have to trade.

I saw Mirtle said the Rangers want a young roster player for him. Not futures. And that's been the holdup with the Leafs.

As I’ve stated before here, playoff teams should and will be reluctant to weaken other parts of their roster to add Georgiev. Losing Johnsson or Kapanen is a step back offensively for the Leafs. Those types of deals don’t happen often. If a young roster player is truly a sticking point, teams like Detroit and Ottawa are serious contenders for a deal.

 

[Paulie Walnutz]

I fear the ramifications of a Kreider trade on the rest of the team. What if, say, the Rangers are still in the mix for that last wild card spot at the deadline. Do they use Kreider as a self rental and see how the season plays out and continue negotiating? Do they still say f*** it and trade him? My 2 biggest worries about the whole Kreider situation is 1) he signs long term and declines and the contract hurts the team, that’s an obvious one that’s been discussed ad nauseam here. The second worry for me is that it will really negatively impact the locker room and upset guys. I know it’s a business and shit happens, but you see the guys are starting to play for each other. It seems like team chemistry is really starting to gel. Sure the team still lacks a defensive structure, but it seems like for the most part the team really is starting to mesh and want to play for each other and for Quinn. Maybe the better option is to use Kreider as a self rental and go from there.

 

[NYRangers0723]

As I’ve stated before here, playoff teams should and will be reluctant to weaken other parts of their roster to add Georgiev. Losing Johnsson or Kapanen is a step back offensively for the Leafs. Those types of deals don’t happen often. If a young roster player is truly a sticking point, teams like Detroit and Ottawa are serious contenders for a deal

.

Plus giving up a big package for a goaltender never happens. I remember Talbot a few years back most Ranger fans were certain we were getting g a first rounder plus for him lol

 

[Kupo]

What I want to know from the trade Kreider people is, who's his replacement? I don't want theories, speculations, "this trade doesn't happen in a vacuum" or "they'll make other moves." Who is the guy? Is it the player they take at 28 with the pick they get for him? Or the B prospect? Is it Frederic or Gauthier? An impending UFA? A change of scenery guy? Name names.

Kakko and Kravtsov have both played on the left side before.

You’re the kind of chess player that sees 2-3 moves ahead. Look further. Re-Signing Kreider means we’re investing what, 18m of our cap space on LW?

People complained when Stepan was traded. Who will replace Derek?! Zbad has not only replaced him, but exceeded expectations tremendously.

If Kakko/Kravtsov aren’t effective at LW, then trade Buch for one. Or, draft and develop one.

Kreider didn’t push us over the top when we were contenders. By the time this young team is ready for that again, CK will be in his 30’s and will likely be less effective than he is today, but with a much larger cap hit.

 

[nyr2k2]

Plus giving up a big package for a goaltender never happens. I remember Talbot a few years back most Ranger fans were certain we were getting g a first rounder plus for him lol

Mirtle didn't indicate the Rangers were looking for any kind of package, just a young roster player. And specifically not picks and prospects.

I do agree with what the other posted said about playoff teams not wanting to weaken the roster to acquire Georgiev. That's why I think it's actually beneficial to roll with the 3-goalie setup into the offseason, as teams would then have an easier time filling whatever hole they created in dealing for Georgiev.

Of course, that all assumes that the three goalies are okay with the rotation Because if one speaks out or requests a trade, then you're in a worse bargaining position then you were before.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I really don't think this debate, even internally, ever comes down to whether Kreider brings value or doesn't bring something the Rangers really need.

The debate, always comes down to cost, fitting that in as we move forward, and the age range. Even internally, there's always been some desire to keep Kreider, but those three other issues cause concern --- and understandably so.

I think it's a lot easier for many people to find comfort with Kreider under contract from age 25-29 at $4 million, than it is finding comfort in Kreider under contract from age 29-35+ at $7 million. That's a significant difference in context. And it's that context that is subject to debate.

Not whether Kreider has unique skills. Or that said skills are highly desirable. Or that finding another Kreider is a particularly easy job. It's whether the terms of extending the relationship allow the Rangers to do what they think they're going to have to do in the coming years. Whether that's future moves, or an uncertainty as to how he ages, or whether they want to apply their capped resources differently, that's what the team is weighing.

I think we keep drifting away from that aspect.

This is a lot of circular talk and I have no idea what the point of it is. Good teams find ways to keep their good players. All we hear about is saving money for the kids and this magical window when everything will be perfect and they'll be playing for a Cup. Anderson's as good as gone, Kravtsov is not breaking the bank on his next deal and will probably get bridge, that's two guys right there. Meanwhile, there's not one forward in the system to replace Kreider with, not a one.

 

[BKGooner]

What do people think about Liam Foudy? He might be a good speed add and is the right age to match the young Rangers. Not sure how Columbus feels about his development or if they would even trade the Rangers a bag of pucks at this point.