Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIV

[kovazub94]

Timashov has been scoring extremely well considering the role he has been played in; 8 minutes a night on a 4th line that gets extreme defensive deployment. 2.1 P/60 is what you expect from a 1st liner. He plays LW too which is by far the largest organizational weakness.

Bracco probably has higher upside, but has yet to play in the NHL and plays RW which is much less of a need.

I think both players would do very well if inserted into our top-9.

Kreider-Zibanejad-Fast
Panarin-Strome-Kakko
Timashov-Chytil-Buchnevich

Everything else being equal I’d take LW over RW.
That aside, would either of Toronto prospects be sufficient return for Georgiev?

 

[The Crypto Guy]

I've made this statement in other threads.

If Stromes best asset is that he meshes with Panarin and produces like this all year, that's hard to find.

Hes doing something that Pat Kane couldn't do and that bring out the best in Panarin.

Not sure what that has to do with anything since Panrarin was just a pup entering the NHL, he has continued to develop and get better and is in his 5th season now.

 

[Trxjw]

Bracco and/or Timashov for Georgiev sounds an awful lot like Leaf fans trying to wish Friedman's clip from the other night into a coup for Toronto.

 

[Good Intentions]

It's a done deal. Kreider's gone. Two reasons. This is the first time he can command dollars. And securing your future financially, is the utmost importance. Zucc and Hayes were in the same boat. It's really a no brainer. And secondly, whatever he gets, will not be worth the money the Rangers can ill afford. He's a 50 point, 20 something goal scorer on his best days. His contract will be inflated and long term. Neither will be appealing to Rangers brass.

You're repeating the obvious, but that doesn't mean it's a lock...Because you deem it a 'done deal' does not make it so. Now is it likely? Perhaps, but far stranger things have occurred. Too much can happen between now and then to change the equation.

Personally, I have a soft spot for Kreider. I want him to be part of the equation - now and future. Similar for Georgiev for that matter. Ultimately, in JD I trust.

 

[SnowblindNYR]

What are you hearing ? I haven't seen anything about Georgiev today.

I saw some post on FB about a rumor of him being traded to Toronto for prospects and picks. But I guess we'd hear something about it if it were legit.

 

[DanielBrassard]

You're repeating the obvious, but that doesn't mean it's a lock...Because you deem it a 'done deal' does not make it so. Now is it likely? Perhaps, but far stranger things have occurred. Too much can happen between now and then to change the equation.

Personally, I have a soft spot for Kreider. I want him to be part of the equation - now and future. Similar for Georgiev for that matter. Ultimately, in JD I trust.

I do wonder if they would ultimately settle on a JVR type deal, shorter term at maybe a slightly higher AAV than expected.

 

[cwede]

Everything else being equal I’d take LW over RW.
That aside, would either of Toronto prospects be sufficient return for Georgiev?

I prefer Tymashov over Bracco, not convinced JB will be impact player at NHL level
And along w DR and picks would ask for JD Greenway, neither Miller nor Robertson are likely gonna come in '20

 

[ohbaby]

theres no way, and i mean, NO WAY, you lock CK up with his NTC at almost 29 yrs of age (4/20) with a 5-7 year deal. yeesh. even at 6 mil for 5 years. hats a hard no for me. rick nash 2.0. nada.

the guy doesnt score enough NOW. im agile him at 33. hes a 50 point guy. inconsistent as hell and not worth that deal given hell be 35 at the end. that contract will be an albatross and the NTC. yikes.

the numbers show quite conclusively that at age 30, players DROP OFF A CLIFF. that contract will look awful come 2021. PASS.

"but he wont lose his speed or his size". he doesnt know what to do with either today. so ??

kravtsov needs to step into that spot. lets hope he can.

on the flip side, ryan Strome is a centerman and hes 27 in july. 2 years plus younger and a right shot. our once bright and deep middle is now dull and shallow. moving strome makes us even weaker.

projecting in the 70 point range. best face-off guy on the team and a versatile, smart guy who can move up and down. is he benefiting from bread ? sure. is bread benefiting from him ? yep.

he will cost LESS and would probably take a 2 year deal at 5 per.

CK at 30 mil 5 yrs (and thats less than market)
strome at 10 mil 2 yrs.

thats 20 mil to spend elsewhere.

keep lemme, ADA and stromer. SELL georgie to the AVS with CK and andersson for newhook. profit.

I actually think if anyone can keep producing in his 30's, it would be Kreider. He is a workout hound. You see how strong he is, when he knocks guys silly getting 10 minutes misconducts like it was nothing. And for him it was nothing.

But regardless his contract will be inflated and long term for someone who will never improve much, if at all on his 50 pt seasons. This is something the Rangers can ill afford.

I surely hope the Rangers hang on to Georgie. Yes we have someone down in Hartford, but Georgie is an NHL caliber goalie and Hank is on his way out. You need two goalies in this day and age to succeed.

 

[ohbaby]

You're repeating the obvious, but that doesn't mean it's a lock...Because you deem it a 'done deal' does not make it so. Now is it likely? Perhaps, but far stranger things have occurred. Too much can happen between now and then to change the equation.

Personally, I have a soft spot for Kreider. I want him to be part of the equation - now and future. Similar for Georgiev for that matter. Ultimately, in JD I trust.

They let go Zucc and Hayes. Do you really think they'll keep Kreider? Assuming there are no catastrophes between now and the trade deadline, it's a done deal.

I think Georgie is not going anywhere. He is a very valuable asset. There are many teams that don't have one good goalie, we have two. And that will be key in our future.

He gets the call tomorrow night in EDM.

 

[haohmaru]

I think Georgie is not going anywhere. He is a very valuable asset. There are many teams that don't have one good goalie, we have two. And that will be key in our future.

They have 4, actually.

Hank, Georgiev, Shesty, and Huska is considered a potential #1.

Georgiev is the guy to go, IMHO. Putting up decent numbers on a shell shocked (nightly) team and Shesty isn't going to spend another year in the "A".

 

[Mikos87]

There are like 40 players in the league who have averaged 3-5 shots per game this season and majority of them are PP triggermen. Zibanejad averages 3.2 and Panarin 2.9.

The Rangers have a need for a scorer, and Buch has shown flashes. He's inconsistent, but how does a guy like Duclair become an all-star after being cast aside? What finally clicked for Anthony?

That's an average of 4 shots per game, 4 * 82 = 328. For scale, 4 players had as many or more shots last year... MacKinnon (365), Kane (341), Ovechkin (338), Seguin (334).

Even 3 per game would be 246 which is Top-20, the amount of shots Nikita Kucherov had.

Totally unrealistic

I don't think so, I think it can be done. The difference between elite offensive players and middling ones, beyond their physical limitations and skills.... is consistency and confidence. It's a mindset, and it's effort.

MacKinnon was not an elite player until he got the cobwebs cleared up.... he was at that 240 range before, and not scoring 40. He's a special talent. But look at other guys like who were able to take a step into a top tier offensive player by getting more pucks on net. Jake Guentzel, Roman Josi, Cam Atkinson, Brent Burns. Watch Washington develop another great scorer in Jakub Vrana.

None of those guys started where they are today, they all developed into top line guys.

If you are trying to develop a player, do you look at just the results, or do you push a guy to maximize his potential? And how do you measure those outcomes you want out of the guy? If goal setting is something that most professions practice, would the game of hockey not do the same?

Don't post again until you figure out how to do comparisons to the rest of the league.

Do you honestly believe, a league in which athletes are paid millions of dollars, do not have performance management targets? Can you conceptualize the mere possibility of a team setting goals for individual players?

Or are you merely relegated to the auspices of a report jockey that looks at a table and goes... "Oh over 50% gooooood!"... "Under 50% baaaaad!"?

 

[ohbaby]

They have 4, actually.
Georgiev is the guy to go, IMHO..

Don't say that. Georgie quite possibly is better than all of them. And of the two goalies I was referring to in the future was Georgie and Shesty.

 

[Mikos87]

I was disappointed with his approach regarding the penalty shot the other day. It seemed that he didn’t have a strategy and when nothing seemed opened, he reluctantly shot into the pads.
Conversely, I thought he used his body more vs. Toronto.

It's mental. It's all mental with Buch. Look I do not for one second, question his level of emotional engagement, he cares. But he's got to learn that if I do x, y, & z, I'm not going to be pissed at myself.

I think he stays down in the dumps and it gets to him. It's hard to feel confident when you are down on yourself. What Buch needs to learn is if I do x,y, & z, night in and night out, I'm where I need to be. He gets down on himself, and his game sags.

The Rangers can spend money on a better sports shrink. It worked for MacKinnon.

 

[NYR]

Well if Gorton has decided he’s going to move Georgiev it would make sense to do it sooner than later. I can see some logic to doing it sooner while Hank is still here, not to appease Hank or anything but instead to do it while Hank is still good instead of waiting too long and he sucks and now Shesty has no wiggle room to struggle. You do it sooner while Hank is still good enough to handle a heavy load and can insulate Shetsty in case he has some bumps while transitioning to the NHL they don’t throw him with a crap partner or anything like that. Plus selling high on Georgiev.

So I guess if they’ve decided Shesty is their guy it makes sense to make a move soon instead of waiting too long until a bunch of other stuff can happen taking leverage away from Gorton and driving the price down. A bunch of bad games, an injury, other goalies getting moved to interested teams. You never know. So if they know they wanna move him if a fair deal comes along you gotta think long and hard about it.

He didn't do very well in trading Talbot or Raanta.
What is he going to get for Georgie?

Quite frankly, I think he's worth a lot more to this team instead of a 2nd/3rd rounder.
If he can get more then fine but he's very talented..

 

[haohmaru]

Don't say that. Georgie quite possibly is better than all of them. And of the two goalies I was referring to in the future was Georgie and Shesty.

Assuming that happens - which of these guys do you think pictures himself as a backup? Hint: neither one.

 

[Pawnee Rangers]

I actually think if anyone can keep producing in his 30's, it would be Kreider. He is a workout hound. You see how strong he is, when he knocks guys silly getting 10 minutes misconducts like it was nothing. And for him it was nothing.

But regardless his contract will be inflated and long term for someone who will never improve much, if at all on his 50 pt seasons. This is something the Rangers can ill afford.

I surely hope the Rangers hang on to Georgie. Yes we have someone down in Hartford, but Georgie is an NHL caliber goalie and Hank is on his way out. You need two goalies in this day and age to succeed.

I would happily pay $6.5 for a 50 point Chris Kreider for the next 5 years. Automatic.

 

[Irishguy42]

The Rangers have a need for a scorer, and Buch has shown flashes. He's inconsistent, but how does a guy like Duclair become an all-star after being cast aside? What finally clicked for Anthony?



I don't think so, I think it can be done. The difference between elite offensive players and middling ones, beyond their physical limitations and skills.... is consistency and confidence. It's a mindset, and it's effort.

MacKinnon was not an elite player until he got the cobwebs cleared up.... he was at that 240 range before, and not scoring 40. He's a special talent. But look at other guys like who were able to take a step into a top tier offensive player by getting more pucks on net. Jake Guentzel, Roman Josi, Cam Atkinson, Brent Burns. Watch Washington develop another great scorer in Jakub Vrana.

None of those guys started where they are today, they all developed into top line guys.

If you are trying to develop a player, do you look at just the results, or do you push a guy to maximize his potential? And how do you measure those outcomes you want out of the guy? If goal setting is something that most professions practice, would the game of hockey not do the same?



Do you honestly believe, a league in which athletes are paid millions of dollars, do not have performance management targets? Can you conceptualize the mere possibility of a team setting goals for individual players?

Or are you merely relegated to the auspices of a report jockey that looks at a table and goes... "Oh over 50% gooooood!"... "Under 50% baaaaad!"?

Dude. Stop moving the goal posts. Just admit that your post about Buch becoming a 3-5 SOG/game player was garbage, under-researched and outlandish, and move on.

 

[Leetch3]

Assuming that happens - which of these guys do you think pictures himself as a backup? Hint: neither one.

completely irrelevant if at the end of the day the better of the 2 is our #1.

yeah that duo isn't going to last forever, but unless completely blown away with an offer I think it would be foolish to trade georgiev before shesty has stepped on nhl ice. sure he looks amazing but he wouldn't be the first guy to dominate in the KHL and AHL and then stumble in the NHL and georgiev has set the bar fairly high...

I have no clue how it happens unless hank decided to retire. but without question the #1 ideal scenario is to have a tandem of georgiev & shesty to let them fight to be the #1. and then when one proves he is better you move the other...you don't move one for a mediocre returns based on hopes and dreams

 

[Mikos87]

Dude. Stop moving the goal posts. Just admit that your post about Buch becoming a 3-5 SOG/game player was garbage, under-researched and outlandish, and move on.

Atta boy. Atta f***ing boy. Thanks for answering the question.

 

[ohbaby]

Assuming that happens - which of these guys do you think pictures himself as a backup? Hint: neither one.

It's always a meritocracy. And the way Georgie is playing against top flight teams he has got a huge advantage.

The way this year is playing out, Hank and Georgie are gonna split time in net down the middle. That's a healthy competition. I'm not worried who thinks they should be #1, cause it takes two these days.

Shesty has split time on his club in Russia with a former Rangers goalie. So not sure why you think he wants or needs to be #1.

 

[NYR Viper]

I get the sense that Boston won’t be outbid for Kreider. In saying that, a young guy like Frederic would fill a hole in the system.

 

[Trxjw]

I get the sense that Boston won’t be outbid for Kreider. In saying that, a young guy like Frederic would fill a hole in the system.

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I mean the 1st and a prospect sort of package varies pretty widely but a 27-31st overall and a role-player prospect doesn't exactly blow my skirt up. Especially when you consider that Kreider is likely to be the best rental winger on the market by a considerable margin.

 

[RGY]

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I mean the 1st and a prospect sort of package varies pretty widely but a 27-31st overall and a role-player prospect doesn't exactly blow my skirt up. Especially when you consider that Kreider is likely to be the best rental winger on the market by a considerable margin.

Yep. Hall got multiple pieces. If we arent getting multiple pieces it needs to be a 1st and a better prospect than Frederic. Maybe Frederic is in there as well. He will be the most sought after winger on the market. Teams saw what the Blues did last year. There is no clear cut favorite and there will be more buyers imo. IF we do sell Kreider we need to do better than that. Devils did us a favor moving Hall so early.

 

[NYR Viper]

It'll be interesting to see how that plays out. I mean the 1st and a prospect sort of package varies pretty widely but a 27-31st overall and a role-player prospect doesn't exactly blow my skirt up. Especially when you consider that Kreider is likely to be the best rental winger on the market by a considerable margin.

I wonder if a conditional pick would be included along with say Frederic + BOS 1st based on where they finish. 2nd for SC Final, 3rd for EC final, 4th if other. Or something like that.

 

[RGY]

I wonder if a conditional pick would be included along with say Frederic + BOS 1st based on where they finish. 2nd for SC Final, 3rd for EC final, 4th if other. Or something like that.

Boston was so incredibly close last year. Their division is a joke this year with unexpected struggles from Tampa and Toronto too. They should be all in and they should be willing to pay more than that