Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XVIV

[Krams]

Continue.

Previous thread: Speculation: - Roster Building Thread: Part XVIII

Click to read more...

 

[Tawnos]

I "think" he can be a third line guy for us, especially with a moderate step forward.

I'd actually be really interested to see if we can get Bennett and Lemieux to keep progressing a bit and hit that 15 goal, 35 point level. I also think they'd be a nasty and annoying line to play against, especially if you can add a complimentary RW to the mix.

But it's funny how perception creeps in again. Lemieux is the same age, from the same draft, and we have a lot of hope tied to him continuing to progress. Likewise, we still expect to see growth from ADA, also from the 2014 draft. But somehow, at least on some level, there's probably the perception that Bennett is done. I don't know if that's the case though. Again, we wouldn't be the team that took him 4th overall. We wouldn't be the team hoping for top six production. So yeah, I think Bennett does have some upside, within the proper context of course.

I know Calgary is definitely one of the teams that has pinged the Rangers. I do not know if Bennett was a player they discussed though.

Well, I don't actually expect Lemieux to be more than he's been for us this season. Which is a guy putting up 3rd line numbers from the 3rd line. I hope to see growth on the defensive side of the puck from DeAngelo, but that's because D are more likely to continue taking steps forward at 24-26 than forwards are. Not to say that forwards can't... we've seen it from Strome and Brassard in the past... just that it's less likely.

 

[Edge]

Well, I don't actually expect Lemieux to be more than he's been for us this season. Which is a guy putting up 3rd line numbers from the 3rd line. I hope to see growth on the defensive side of the puck from DeAngelo, but that's because D are more likely to continue taking steps forward at 24-26 than forwards are. Not to say that forwards can't... we've seen it from Strome and Brassard in the past... just that it's less likely.

See now, I don't think Lemieux is done growing offensively. Heck, I don't even think he's having his best production based on the 100 or so games he's played in the league thus far.

I think it depends on what one expects. If someone is hoping for Lemieux to hit 25 goals and 50 points, I think they're wish casting. But 15 goals and 30-35 points? I think that's possible with some time.

 

[Tawnos]

See now, I don't think Lemieux is done growing offensively. Heck, I don't even think he's having his best production based on the 100 or so games he's played in the league thus far.

I think it depends on what one expects. If someone is hoping for Lemieux to hit 25 goals and 50 points, I think they're wish casting. But 15 goals and 30-35 points? I think that's possible with some time.

I mean, he's currently pacing 13G 18A...

 

[NernieBichols]

I got carped on the last thread
This is in regards to a post edge made regarding cost/eventual productio/flexibility

He’s basically saying you might be able to get jost+ for Kreider. And jost might become a 20-50 winger
Or you might be able to get nlyander for skjei, Georgie and a highly ranked prospect. And nylander may get you 30-60/70 playing in the same winger role as jost would.

But if jost were to work out. You’d be getting 3/4 of nylsnders production without the huge salary and without giving up those pieces which could then be used to upgrade other positions. True you wouldn’t be getting the 1st and B prospect for Kreider. But you still got skjei, Georgie and whoever else to work with.

A top 6 consisting of bread, Mika, kakko, chytil, jost, and nylander is way too finesse for me.

It’s one or the other for me though. Don’t want a 2nd line with jost/nlyander bookending chytil. IF the center had more sandpaper compete in him naturally, I’d be alright by it. But not 3 finesse players.

 

[effen]

I mean, he's currently pacing 13G 18A...

The season is long, and full of dry spells.

 

[NernieBichols]

I’d Bet my pants pepe starts hitting 20g a year. He might do it this year. But im guessing gorts would prefer he hold off a year on that until he’s signed long term

 

[Tawnos]

The season is long, and full of dry spells.

As well as hot streaks.

 

[effen]

I got carped on the last thread
This is in regards to a post edge made regarding cost/eventual productio/flexibility

He’s basically saying you might be able to get jost+ for Kreider. And jost might become a 20-50 winger
Or you might be able to get nlyander for skjei, Georgie and a highly ranked prospect. And nylander may get you 30-60/70 playing in the same winger role as jost would.

But if jost were to work out. You’d be getting 3/4 of nylsnders production without the huge salary and without giving up those pieces which could then be used to upgrade other positions. True you wouldn’t be getting the 1st and B prospect for Kreider. But you still got skjei, Georgie and whoever else to work with.

A top 6 consisting of bread, Mika, kakko, chytil, jost, and nylander is way too finesse for me.

It’s one or the other for me though. Don’t want a 2nd line with jost/nlyander bookending chytil. IF the center had more sandpaper compete in him naturally, I’d be alright by it. But not 3 finesse players.

If you're trying to min-max stuff like "I'd rather have a 20/50 guy with Geo + Skjei over a 30/70 guy" you'll never get over the hump and you'll have a middling team bc those 3 are middling players and a fully formed Nylander is a gamebreaker.

Multiple mid-tier assets is the way to go when you're at the bottom, but once you're in the middle third it's the prime guys who get you into the top third.

Marginal upgrade cost is high in this business like in any other.

 

[effen]

As well as hot streaks.

Chytil had like 5 goals in 8 games to start, and has 8 in 24 right now. So while you're right, I'm more right

 

[eco's bones]

See now, I don't think Lemieux is done growing offensively. Heck, I don't even think he's having his best production based on the 100 or so games he's played in the league thus far.

I think it depends on what one expects. If someone is hoping for Lemieux to hit 25 goals and 50 points, I think they're wish casting. But 15 goals and 30-35 points? I think that's possible with some time.

Lemieux is pro-rating those numbers or at least very close right now. I can see him turning into a 40's player and depending on linemates he could become a 50 point player. Also if--when Kreider gets moved along he becomes our most likely net front presence on the power play so there is very good chance that towards the end of the year he moves up to being on our 1st power play unit.

 

[Off Sides]

I'm confused who we're adding to that group though.

I mean if we talk Jost and Bennett, they're ahead of Howden and Lias at this point. They're a known quantity, as oppossed to the latter two for whom we still don't know at this point.

On defense, I don't know if I see us adding more depth defenseman.

Bennette I could understand, kind of like Lemieux he is a sort of unique player who has some talent and can play a tougher two way game. Why/If Calgary is trading him while he still has another year left on his current deal I am not so sure. For a bottom 6 player who can maybe move forward with the team, I'd be fine with him as an add on over say a early 2nd round pick.

Jost has been pretty mediocre in the NHL to this point, is he really on the edge of breaking out? And even if he is, what is he breaking out into? If he does not break out into a top 6 there is not going to be much value there. I think I'd rather take the early 2nd round pick.

 

[pld459666]

If you're trying to min-max stuff like "I'd rather have a 20/50 guy with Geo + Skjei over a 30/70 guy" you'll never get over the hump and you'll have a middling team bc those 3 are middling players and a fully formed Nylander is a gamebreaker.

Multiple mid-tier assets is the way to go when you're at the bottom, but once you're in the middle third it's the prime guys who get you into the top third.

Marginal upgrade cost is high in this business like in any other.

I dont see gamebreaker when looking at Nylander.

Very good player, yes.

Game breaker? That's big no for me

 

[NernieBichols]

If you're trying to min-max stuff like "I'd rather have a 20/50 guy with Geo + Skjei over a 30/70 guy" you'll never get over the hump and you'll have a middling team bc those 3 are middling players and a fully formed Nylander is a gamebreaker.

Multiple mid-tier assets is the way to go when you're at the bottom, but once you're in the middle third it's the prime guys who get you into the top third.

Marginal upgrade cost is high in this business like in any other.

I’m saying those players could then be used in combos to get other pieces.

Personally I don’t know anything about jost. He doesn’t sound like my cup of tea, but neither did brassard and I loved brassards tenure as a ranger. So I’ll leave that up to the guys who actually have the info and access to get the info

 

[Edge]

I mean, he's currently pacing 13G 18A...

Well, I meant it more in the sense that there's a little more material there with which to work.

So on the surface, going from 13 goals and 31 points to 17 and 37 doesn't seem like a lot, but then you realize it's 30 percent improvement in goals and 20 percent increase in points.

That in turn is maybe an extra win or two. You get that from two or three guys, and maybe its an extra 3-5 wins over the course of a season, another 6-10 points in the standing, etc.

So with Lemieux, I think there's more there than even what we're seeing right now. Not double the production per se, but enough.

 

[effen]

I dont see gamebreaker when looking at Nylander.

Very good player, yes.

Game breaker? That's big no for me

Yeah, but that's pull with that kind of player. He *could* be. An acutal existing gamebreaker isn't gonna come at the cost of our 1A/1B goalie, Braindeady Skjei on a slight overpay contract, and whatever prospect we part with.

His downside is a Kristian Huselius type which he already is.

1A/1B goalies aren't rare commodities. Middle pairing market-paid defensemen aren't rare commodities. Give to get.

I personally don't like him, but he's a lotto ticket, and this place does love its lotto tickets.

 

[NernieBichols]

Yeah, but that's pull with that kind of player. He *could* be. An acutal existing gamebreaker isn't gonna come at the cost of our 1A/1B goalie, Braindeady Skjei on a slight overpay contract, and whatever prospect we part with.

His downside is a Kristian Huselius type which he already is.

1A/1B goalies aren't rare commodities. Middle pairing market-paid defensemen aren't rare commodities. Give to get.

I personally don't like him, but he's a lotto ticket, and this place does love its lotto tickets.

There’s such a void of compotent goalies and 4-6 (secondary) defensemen. Why do you think goals are up?

You got guys who aren’t really PROs making up the bottom of teams d corps

 

[Edge]

I dont see gamebreaker when looking at Nylander.

Very good player, yes.

Game breaker? That's big no for me

And truthfully, I don't think the Rangers would look for him to be a game breaker. I think they'd be very happy with home slotting onto the second line, maybe giving Chytil someone to grow with, and pressing forward with solving the team's other challenges.

Even with Panarin, the desire to have a 20-30 goal, 60 point winger hasn't entirely disappeared.

 

[effen]

There’s such a void of compotent goalies and 4-6 (secondary) defensemen. Why do you think goals are up?

You got guys who aren’t really PROs making up the bottom of teams d corps

We have a very different perception of things then . There are more bottom pairing defensemen than you can shake a stick at. Goalies are largely a function of the team in front of them and the bottom 70% of them are fungible IMO. This place has been crazy, crazy spoiled to have Lundqvist for 15 years.

Scoring is up because the league is in a transition period of figuring out how skating and skill (see that Svech goal??!?!) juxtaposes with defense systems and personnel (Clod Julien still exists), and the scoring part is ahead right now.

 

[Lion Hound]

I think Lemieux has some more room to grow. Wouldn't even rule out finding his way onto a top 6 role one day. Gritty power forwards are a pain in the ass for opposing teams. Wilson, Tkachuk's, etc.

For #20
I think I'm the only guy here that wants to keep him.

If he is moved, I think there will be a pretty decent market bidding for him at the deadline.

Colorado has been mentioned for 2 seasons now as a possible destination. If I was a GM sitting on that roster I would love the idea of #20 in the mix. Would be tough for clubs to handle him and MacKinnon. Speed and size up front.

I'm watching the NHL Network now. They talked Kreider. They also think that Montreal is the destination. Would be interesting to see Domi and Kreider together.

Personally, I think Edmonton is the best fit. Might be the best 1,2 combo down the middle of any team in the league. But after that there's players like Kassian in the top 6. Kreider in that mix would be really interesting. Edm doesn't have space this year, however they have like 12 UFA's coming off next year. They have depth that will like move up into the roster on the cheap. Bouchard on D. Yamamoto as a forward. I could see them as club that could trade for him and redo the contract for 2020.

 

[effen]

As an aside, whoever suggested Sam Bennett is completely spot on. If he's better Brandon Prust, guess what? This roster and this coach is screaming and dying for a better Brandon Prust. Just because he's not scoring doesn't mean he doesn't a lot have what the roster needs.

You can be a perfectly valuable middle-sixer and score 25 points. You just have to bring other stuff.

 

[Edge]

I think Lemieux has some more room to grow. Wouldn't even rule out finding his way onto a top 6 role one day. Gritty power forwards are a pain in the ass for opposing teams. Wilson, Tkachuk's, etc.

For #20
I think I'm the only guy here that wants to keep him.

If he is moved, I think there will be a pretty decent market bidding for him at the deadline.

Colorado has been mentioned for 2 seasons now as a possible destination. If I was a GM sitting on that roster I would love the idea of #20 in the mix. Would be tough for clubs to handle him and MacKinnon. Speed and size up front.

I'm watching the NHL Network now. They talked Kreider. They also think that Montreal is the destination. Would be interesting to see Domi and Kreider together.

Personally, I think Edmonton is the best fit. Might be the best 1,2 combo down the middle of any team in the league. But after that there's players like Kassian in the top 6. Kreider in that mix would be really interesting. Edm doesn't have space this year, however they have like 12 UFA's coming off next year. They have depth that will like move up into the roster on the cheap. Bouchard on D. Yamamoto as a forward. I could see them as club that could trade for him and redo the contract for 2020.

Re: Kreider, I expect Boston to be aggressive in pursuing him. In turn, I would expect young players/prospects more than a pick to be the Rangers desire.

 

[Edge]

As an aside, whoever suggested Sam Bennett is completely spot on. If he's better Brandon Prust, guess what? This roster and this coach is screaming and dying for a better Brandon Prust. Just because he's not scoring doesn't mean he doesn't a lot have what the roster needs.

You can be a perfectly valuable middle-sixer and score 25 points. You just have to bring other stuff.

That would be @ZuccsFluffierFluffer

And knowing what I've heard about Calgary being interested in Kreider, it does make sense.

 

[B17 Apricots]

LemiWinks is also a kid getting 14 minutes a night, if Kreider gets moved and Lemiuex is moved up in the lineup what kinda numbers are we looking at when he's getting 17 minutes a night ?

 

[effen]

Re: Kreider, I expect Boston to be aggressive in pursuing him. In turn, I would expect young players/prospects more than a pick to be the Rangers desire.

I feel like Boston would try to give a Hall-esque return (no Vaakanainen, no Studnicka, no on their last 1st rounder out of general principle) and if they're offering the pu-pu platter their system is pretty bare as far as I can tell.

Zboril can't crack the NHL roster in his 3rd AHL year, Senyshyn is underwhelming to say the least, JFK went overseas (!), Trent Frederic has a Lias-esque 0 points in 17 NHL games. I don't see it.