Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVIII

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm not in the trade DeAngelo bucket at all. I liked his moxie in the playoffs, but I thought he was disappointing in the post-season. Look he's done nothing but make Gorts look good.

• The Derek Stepan Trade is now officially the Tony DeAngelo Trade
• The Rangers missed on the 7th overall pick, but DeAngelo single handedly outscored all of the forwards in that trade this year, and will probably continue to do so for a while.
• The need to pay Tony DeAngelo netted the Rangers another 1st round pick to give them another shot at a first as a byproduct of Tony's Play.
• You get Skjeiky Brady off the team and that helped the team become better defensively. The Rangers kept winning without him.
• Helped you clear $5.25M right away. That helped you get clearance to re-sign Kreider, and have the ability to pay the other RFA's.

Did Tony have a disappointing post-season, yeah he did. But he was fired up about it, and for him I think it was a great experience to help him harness his emotions in a big game. I loved the fact that he dropped the gloves to send a message, and I liked that he competed hard.

That said- I'd ding off a little bit on the signing bonus structure for the playoffs. Some sort of symbolic gesture. Rangers should lock him up to a 5-6 year deal. Anything between $5.8M to $6.3M on the cap is favorable. The Rangers can front load the deal and Tony can put the time value of money to good use.

Tony'll need some advice on how to put that to good use, but there are a lot of hockey guys in the investment world. Once he's papered up he'll be good. With some of the advisors around him, I don't think cap hit will be much of an issue as much as what Tony can do with the up-front money.

If Tony's producing, he's going to get a lot of sponsorship deals in the area. He just hasn't hit that level of fame or recognition yet but that comes with racking up a couple of years like the last one.

He played through a hamstring injury in the playoffs.

But yeah, I think he's a keeper unless something really special comes around.

 

[NYSPORTS]

that’s a really sought out position.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I am reluctant to deal Nils at all. He seems to have a cannon of a shot from the point in addition to all the other skills that make him a quality offensive defenseman. He seems like he might be more complete than DeAngelo frankly. Like Fox but with a better blast.

If he’s going, I would want it to be as part of a package for a 1C not a 2C. If I’m 2C hunting, what can I get for some combination of Jones/Reunanon/Carolina first/Buch or Strome/Georgiev ?

Maybe once I know the answer to that question I’d be more willing to deal Lundkvist.

I don't think he has Fox's overall upside. He does have that cannon of a shot and hes a heck of a prospect, but at this current juncture I'm not trading DeAngelo just because Nils might be a really good player someday. DeAngelo was pacing around 60 points before the season stopped with Staal stapled to his hip. Nils will never sniff that even if the all around game is more complete.

It's one thing if he were already here and knocking on the door but he isn't. If they can get a quality upgrade on Strome for less, thats great. If Cirelli is the guy they want, I'm 90% sure that Nils is the player they're going to want to build the deal around.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I haven't seen Lundkvist a whole lot (aside from highlights really), but I am impressed with him. I just wonder about his projection (particularly in his own zone) to the NHL. 5'11 and 180 lbs. He's a little smaller than someone like Karlsson, but Karlsson is really the exception, not the rule. Guys like Liljegren are the rule. Smaller defensemen obviously have a role, but can you really project them to be on the first pair? By contrast, K'Andre has the size, speed and physicality to be a first-pair, shutdown guy.

Yeah but I can make the case that K'Andre Miller has benefited from his physicality up to now and that advantage will not be there in the NHL and maybe even the AHL. How much of Miller's early progress is based on simply being able to outmuscle his opponents?

 

[SnowblindNYR]

Well.... it’s cause we have three other long term options at RD. I don’t know what’s not to understand.

I don’t want to trade ADA but i don’t want to trade Fox or Lundkvist either. And Trouba will not be traded.

So it’s either move DeAngelo to the left or capitalize on his value, which seems like more than Lundkvist’s at the moment.

None of the other defensemen have the offensive ceiling of ADA.

 

[Kovalev27]

Yeah but I can make the case that K'Andre Miller has benefited from his physicality up to now and that advantage will not be there in the NHL and maybe even the AHL. How much of Miller's early progress is based on simply being able to outmuscle his opponents?

not for nothing Miller is going to outmuscle nhlers too. He’s an absolute unit. He was throwing nhl guys around at camp.

 

[Tawnos]

I say this again... I think DeAngelo isn't a long-term part of this team, but there's no rush to move him right now.

Basically, the only player this season I consider trading him for is an equivalently aged, equivalently talented (doesn't have to be entirely offensive talent) left defenseman.

 

[Avery16]

Quenneville was a D. Would he sign on to mentor/assist Quinn?

 

[Tawnos]

Quenneville was a D. Would he sign on to mentor/assist Quinn?

He already has a job.

 

[Avery16]

He already has a job.

Florida is getting a new GM.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

not for nothing Miller is going to outmuscle nhlers too. He’s an absolute unit. He was throwing nhl guys around at camp.

Let's hope he does. It all depends on how he adjusts to the NHL. He may still be useful but not necessarily as dominant as we expect him to be.

 

[smoneil]

I don't think he has Fox's overall upside. He does have that cannon of a shot and hes a heck of a prospect, but at this current juncture I'm not trading DeAngelo just because Nils might be a really good player someday. DeAngelo was pacing around 60 points before the season stopped with Staal stapled to his hip. Nils will never sniff that even if the all around game is more complete.

It's one thing if he were already here and knocking on the door but he isn't. If they can get a quality upgrade on Strome for less, thats great. If Cirelli is the guy they want, I'm 90% sure that Nils is the player they're going to want to build the deal around.

I'm honestly baffled at how many people on here are prepared to throw multiple top assets at Cirelli. He's a nice player, but far from elite. I worry that too many people have convinced themselves that on THIS team, he would be something he's not yet shown himself to be. Has shades of Bobby Holik 2.0.

 

[Tawnos]

Florida is getting a new GM.

That new GM isn't firing Quenneville.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I'm honestly baffled at how many people on here are prepared to throw multiple top assets at Cirelli. He's a nice player, but far from elite. I worry that too many people have convinced themselves that on THIS team, he would be something he's not yet shown himself to be. Has shades of Bobby Holik 2.0.

Hes an excellent defensive player on a team that is pretty run and gun.

Something tells me that will carry over.

 

[Tawnos]

I'm honestly baffled at how many people on here are prepared to throw multiple top assets at Cirelli. He's a nice player, but far from elite. I worry that too many people have convinced themselves that on THIS team, he would be something he's not yet shown himself to be. Has shades of Bobby Holik 2.0.

Holik would've been AWESOME playing in a lineup behind Zibanejad

 

[TominNC]

I'm honestly baffled at how many people on here are prepared to throw multiple top assets at Cirelli. He's a nice player, but far from elite. I worry that too many people have convinced themselves that on THIS team, he would be something he's not yet shown himself to be. Has shades of Bobby Holik 2.0.

To be fair, their are multiple conversations going on at once in this thread. Also what can seem like "many people" is only a few vocal people advocating a certain move.

 

[Avery16]

Holik would've been AWESOME playing in a lineup behind Zibanejad

Pre-1999, ok.

 

[rangers1314]

Why wouldn't anyone, if offered, move to Florida for a promotion and a Lot More Money?

Drury doesn’t need the money and that organization is a mess.

If he leaves NYR, he’ll wait until a more stable organization comes calling.

 

[Vitto79]

We've looked for a D-man like TDA since Leetch. 16 years. People can't wait to trade him. I don't get it.

They are not trading Trouba or Fox so it’s him or Lundkvist

Gambling on Lundkvist yes

 

[Mikos87]

You could sign a guy like Carson Soucy and ask him to play the Ben Chariot role next to Trouba. That may be a very effective pair on the PK. Fills Seattle needs too.

 

[smoneil]

Hes an excellent defensive player on a team that is pretty run and gun.

Something tells me that will carry over.

Yeah, but for the offers I've seen Rangers fans making (top prospects, multiple high draft picks including the Carolina 1st), you'd expect a player with a bit more production on offense. At similar points of their careers, he's in the same mold as Kevin Hayes or a poor man's Derek Stepan (Stepan had more offense). All good players, but worth the equivalent of two first rounders+ in value? My worry is that we empty the cupboard for Cirelli based on what we hope he can be, then we open up the coffers to him for the same reason...only to have him playing 3rd line when Chytil develops into the 2nd line center. I'm more optimistic that Chytil can be the best option at that spot, especially with new, more explosive players on his wings.

 

[Tawnos]

Drury doesn’t need the money and that organization is a mess.

If he leaves NYR, he’ll wait until a more stable organization comes calling.

Some people would enjoy the challenge of cleaning up a mess like that... and Drury, to me, seems like one of those people.

On the other hand, maybe he gets hired in Florida and trades Barkov to the Rangers for Marc Staal.

 

[smoneil]

Holik would've been AWESOME playing in a lineup behind Zibanejad

My reference was mainly about acquiring a player in the hopes that he can play a role above what he's shown thus far. We got Holik on the assumption he could play 1C. He couldn't. He was never that guy, even in his best years in NJ. People want to get Cirelli based on the assumption that he can be the 2C. He's never broken the 20 goal barrier. He's never scored more than 40-something points. Yeah, he's great defensively, but you want more production out of your 2C.

 

[Mikos87]

Drury doesn’t need the money and that organization is a mess.

If he leaves NYR, he’ll wait until a more stable organization comes calling.

I'd like to think so. I like Drury. He's a very successful businessman in his own right outside of the hockey world, so he will make a terrific all-around GM. Question is when and where. Saying no to Buffalo was a smart move. Florida... you know you have to solve multiple challenges. I lived in Miami for work for some long stretches the last couple of years. I can partially speak for the fan experience.

$5-$15 gets you a beer and game. The arena is a 45 minute to 1 hour trip from downtown Miami. The Miami populace is a basketball town. The other sports, including college are competitors, and the Panthers are at the bottom of the totem pole. The team can score, but can't protect leads.

Oh and only a deep playoff run can make the team profitable, you are facing $25M-$30M in the hole. It's an absolutely dreamy place to live as an athlete as well so some guys can get complacent.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Yeah, but for the offers I've seen Rangers fans making (top prospects, multiple high draft picks including the Carolina 1st), you'd expect a player with a bit more production on offense. At similar points of their careers, he's in the same mold as Kevin Hayes or a poor man's Derek Stepan (Stepan had more offense). All good players, but worth the equivalent of two first rounders+ in value? My worry is that we empty the cupboard for Cirelli based on what we hope he can be, then we open up the coffers to him for the same reason...only to have him playing 3rd line when Chytil develops into the 2nd line center. I'm more optimistic that Chytil can be the best option at that spot, especially with new, more explosive players on his wings.

The gap between him and 23 year old Stepan defensively is bigger than the gap that existed between him and 23 year old Stepan offensively.

This isn't 2002 anymore. Most teams ride 3 scoring lines these days. There is no more standard checking line, 4th lines are usually a hodgepodge of different skills (or in our case, no skills.)

And there is no emptying of the cupboard. Moving a single top prospect and a pick is not selling the farm.