Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XLVII

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Brooklyn Rangers Fan

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Aug 23, 2005
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The gauge for Miller won't be his stat line or offensive numbers.

It'll be his ability to play defense and make decisions.

It's going to be learning from experiences in the WJC where more talented competion really exposed some of Miller's areas in need of improvement.

I'm not saying this to shit on Miller. I'm saying to provide levity because we get really high on these kids, watch a bunch of highlight reels, and then we get depressed when reality sets in and they have to make major adjustments against the best hockey players in the world.
Oh, I hear you. I made my comment only after hearing how JD absolutely *gushed* over the kid – precisely because just such an impression would never be based off the same highlight reels I can view, but his own hours of viewing and conversations with the rest of his staff.

Which is what leads me to then wonder if that same staff doesn't think there are a bunch of diamonds in the rough to be mined from the disaster that was Wisco's squad last year.
 

True Blue

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I agree with that but I'm not talking about what would normally happen.

The way JD talk about him was as if he shocked him. It's one thing if JD said, 'He showed good progress.. blah blah... process.. ' He really emphasised how good he looked. REALLY GOOD.

So, maybe people will be shocked he makes the team.
Gushing about someone's potential is not the same thing as rolling out the red carpet for a starting spot. It means being excited about what a player could be.

Miller is ridiculously physically gifted. At this point, is that enough to get your way into the starting line up and overcome other areas that clearly need more development? Maybe, but I sort of doubt it. Again, nothing would make me happier if he came into camp and knocked the door down. I just have a hard time seeing it all come together so early.
 

HatTrick Swayze

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Small take aways from JD interview:

1. Pencil Howden in for the foreseeable future

2. Any LD solution may have Miller in mind in terms of...maybe they aren’t banging down the doors to get a 25 year old first pairing guy they will keep for 8 years. A guy like Ekholm who has 2 years left and some flexibility might be more interesting than a big deal for someone like Hanifin.
 
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True Blue

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uhh Matt Robertson should have been a first round pick and has shown nothing since to say otherwise. Very impressive young man

Lindgren already here HAJek is an option He’s at worst a third pair LD.

we have plenty no reason to spend money there we don’t have. Your top guys are on your right side. You’re going to need complementary guys on your left.
I like Robertson, but have not seen enough to believe that he is ready to make an immediate impact.

You are right on Lindgren and he, I believe, will play a very important role in the growing defense. But Hajek's game went to hell last year. He showed exactly nothing and could not even beat out Staal. He need to show A LOT to believe that he can play at the NHL level.
 

DanielBrassard

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Small take aways from JD interview:

1. Pencil Howden in for the foreseeable future

2. Any LD solution may have Miller in mind in terms of...maybe they aren’t banging down the doors to get a 25 year old first pairing guy they will keep for 8 years. A guy like Ekholm who has 2 years left and some flexibility might be more interesting than a big deal for someone like Hanifin.
With expansion it's preferable that it's someone with 1 year left so we don't have to worry about losing 1 of Lindgren/ADA.
 
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True Blue

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and note my goal is to build a championship blueline, the lower bar of being better than staal at this point does not move the needle when it comes to rushing a prospect.
I get it, but we all have a tendency to project pie in the sky potential for prospects that have not yet played in the NHL (not saying you are doing it), and in some cases the AHL. The chances of all of these players making it to the show is almost non-existent. Robertson needs to develop more as does Miller before I believe that they are ready to make an impact in the near future.

In Miler's case, the kid is still learning how to play defense. I have have a hard time believing that he can pick up enough mentally to play. But we can always hope.
 

True Blue

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Is your whole schtick just pretending that we cannot know or project anything about the future?

I mean, is this a serious question? What LDs do we have in our system that are nearing NHL readiness? I thought you were a Ranger fan, you know the answer to that question.

If you think we don't have any good LD prospects in our system, maybe you are the one who should start rebuking common sense and tell us why they are not.
No, I am simply asking you who is knocking down the door? Who is close to being NHL ready? Miller? Based on what ability you read about or about his actual play last yer? Roberson? Based on what he did in juniors? Is that what makes you think that he is close to the NHL? Jones? Again, based on what?

You seem to want to create fictitious logjams to feed some sort of narrative. Here's the thing. The chances of all of them working out are slim. There is NO ONE from the LD prospects that is knocking on the door right now. There are some that we all have a lot of hope for the future. But for this upcoming year? Nothing really indicating that any sort of gameplan should be done with the expectation that one of them is in the starting line up.
 
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Avery16

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No, I am simply asking you who is knocking down the door? Who is close to being NHL ready? Miller? Based on what ability you read about or about his actual play last yer? Roberson? Based on what he did in juniors? Is that what makes you think that he is close to the NHL? Jones? Again, based on what?

You seem to want to create fictitious logjams to feed some sort of narrative. Here's the thing. The chances of all of them working out are slim. There is NO ONE from the LD prospects that is knocking on the door right now. There are some that we all have a lot of hope for the future. But for this upcoming year? Nothing really indicating that any sort of gameplan should be done with the expectation that one of them is in the starting line up.
Miller, based on the experience he had playing in camp last month. Everyone relevant to the decision said he looked ready.
 
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Edge

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Oh, I hear you. I made my comment only after hearing how JD absolutely *gushed* over the kid – precisely because just such an impression would never be based off the same highlight reels I can view, but his own hours of viewing and conversations with the rest of his staff.

Which is what leads me to then wonder if that same staff doesn't think there are a bunch of diamonds in the rough to be mined from the disaster that was Wisco's squad last year.

:::Cough::: Halloway:::Cough
 

mas0764

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You seem to want to create fictitious logjams to feed some sort of narrative. Here's the thing. The chances of all of them working out are slim. There is NO ONE from the LD prospects that is knocking on the door right now. There are some that we all have a lot of hope for the future. But for this upcoming year? Nothing really indicating that any sort of gameplan should be done with the expectation that one of them is in the starting line up.

Who is expecting all of them to work out? And who said this upcoming year?

We have a ton of highly regarded LD prospects. While the chances of "all of them working out," are indeed slim, it's equally slim that none of them work out. It's so slim that you should probably make according plans that Lindgren, who is already on the team and looking solid, plus at least 2 more of Miller, Hajek, Jones, Robertson, and Reunanen become Top-4 caliber players.

I mean, I'm not interested in debating your worst case scenarios here. :laugh:

What if the earth crashes into the sun tomorrow? It could happen, but it won't.

I'm planning for what history shows us we can count on, and that's odds, which say we are going to get a couple solid LD out of this group relatively soon (note: I did not say "this season," or "knocking at the door," ever).

Since this is an eventuality worth planning for, I'm gonna go ahead and chalk it down and then not start shopping for that much LD help. It's on the way, I don't need to import a guy for this season. If I have to role with Brendan Smith again, oh well.

The caveat to this is if you can find an elite, top-level LD, because that's where the odds start to get sketchy. It's hardly something you can project with accuracy that any of these guys become all-star caliber shut down LDs. That is what we "HOPE" Miller is, but we don't know.

Not much in the way of hoping that you get 2 or so top-4 caliber LDs out of our group within the next 2-3 seasons though. That's just gonna happen.

So why are we going shopping for a 26 year old non-all star LD like Nurse or Hampus Lindholm? These are good players but not great ones. Wait and see what you have in the system before you tie yourself up in another Trouba-like extension for a non-elite defender again.

I mean, jeez, speaking of narratives.... look in the mirror. We do have a logjam here.... it's more likely that more of these guys than we can use end up being contributing NHLers.
 

Kaapo di tutti capi

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Latest mock draft from the BleacherReport:

I like the 24th pick--but I highly doubt he's going be there at 24.


1. New York Rangers: LW Alexis Lafreniere, Rimouski (QMJHL)
2. Los Angeles Kings: C Quinton Byfield, Sudbury Wolves (OHL)
3. Ottawa Senators (via Sharks): C Tim Stutzle, Adler Mannheim (DEL)
4. Detroit Red Wings: D Jamie Drysdale, Erie (OHL)
5. Ottawa Senators: C Marco Rossi, Ottawa 67's (OHL)
6. Anaheim Ducks: C Cole Perfetti, Saginaw Spirit (OHL)
7. New Jersey Devils: LW Lucas Raymond, Frolunda HC (SHL)
8. Buffalo Sabres: RW Alexander Holtz, Djurgardens (SHL)
9. Minnesota Wild: RW Jack Quinn, Ottawa 67's (OHL)
10. Winnipeg Jets: F Dylan Holloway, Wisconsin Badgers (NCAA)
11. Nashville Predators: RW Dawson Mercer, Drummondville Voltigeurs (QMJHL)
12. Florida Panthers: D Kaiden Guhle, Prince Albert Raiders (WHL)
13. Carolina Hurricanes (via Maple Leafs): D Braden Schneider, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
14. Edmonton Oilers: LW Rodion Amirov, Salavat Yulaev Ufa (KHL)
15. Pittsburgh Penguins: C Anton Lundell, HIFK (Liiga)
16. Montreal Canadiens: D Kaiden Guhle, Prince Albert (WHL)
17. Chicago Blackhawks: G Yaroslav Askarov, SKA Saint Petersburg (KHL)
18. New Jersey Devils (via Coyotes): RW Noel Gunler, Lulea HF (SHL)
19. Calgary Flames: D Braden Schneider, Brandon Wheat Kings (WHL)
20. New Jersey Devils (via Canucks): C Connor Zary, Kamloops Blazers (WHL)
21. Columbus Blue Jackets: C Jacob Perreault, Sarnia (OHL)
22. Ottawa Senators (via Islanders): C Hendrix Lapierre, Chicoutimi Sagueneens (QMJHL)
23. Dallas Stars: C Mavrik Bourque, Shawinigan Cataractes (QMJHL)
24. New York Rangers (via Hurricanes): RW Seth Jarvis, Portland Winterhawks (WHL)
25. Philadelphia Flyers: D, Yan Kuznetsov, UConn Huskies (NCAA)
26. San Jose Sharks (via Lightning): LW Lukas Reichel, Eisbaren Berlin (DEL)
27. Colorado Avalanche: D Justin Barron, Halifax Mooseheads (QMJHL)
28. Vegas Golden Knights: C Marat Khusnutdinov, St. Petersburg (MHL)
29. Washington Capitals: C Brendan Brisson, Chicago (USHL)
30. St. Louis Blues: D William Wallinder, Modo Hockey (HockeyAllsvenskan)

I agree, but I'm also not taking a mock very seriously if they have Guhle drafted at 12 AND 16 and have Schneider drafted at 13 AND 19.
 

NYSPORTS

back afta dis. . .
Jun 17, 2019
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I’m liking this relationship the Rangers have going with Winnipeg.

Rangers trade Kevin Hayes to Jets for;
Jacob Trouba
Brendan Lemiuex

Followed by Jets win Phase I of NHL draft lottery so Rangers can win Phase II

What’s next? Dustin Byfuglien for league minimum?
 
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Ghost of jas

Unsatisfied
Feb 27, 2002
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You know...

The more I think about it, the more I wonder whether seeing K'Andre's performance in bubble camp might not have impressed the Rangers that basically every prospect at Wisco right now had their value artificially depressed last season – and whether that doesn't in turn increase their interest in a guy like Holloway, for example...

You now risk the wrath of @GoAwayStaal
 

True Blue

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Who is expecting all of them to work out? And who said this upcoming year?

We have a ton of highly regarded LD prospects. While the chances of "all of them working out," are indeed slim, it's equally slim that none of them work out. It's so slim that you should probably make according plans that Lindgren, who is already on the team and looking solid, plus at least 2 more of Miller, Hajek, Jones, Robertson, and Reunanen become Top-4 caliber players.

I mean, I'm not interested in debating your worst case scenarios here. :laugh:

What if the earth crashes into the sun tomorrow? It could happen, but it won't.

I'm planning for what history shows us we can count on, and that's odds, which say we are going to get a couple solid LD out of this group relatively soon (note: I did not say "this season," or "knocking at the door," ever).

Since this is an eventuality worth planning for, I'm gonna go ahead and chalk it down and then not start shopping for that much LD help. It's on the way, I don't need to import a guy for this season. If I have to role with Brendan Smith again, oh well.

The caveat to this is if you can find an elite, top-level LD, because that's where the odds start to get sketchy. It's hardly something you can project with accuracy that any of these guys become all-star caliber shut down LDs. That is what we "HOPE" Miller is, but we don't know.

Not much in the way of hoping that you get 2 or so top-4 caliber LDs out of our group within the next 2-3 seasons though. That's just gonna happen.

So why are we going shopping for a 26 year old non-all star LD like Nurse or Hampus Lindholm? These are good players but not great ones. Wait and see what you have in the system before you tie yourself up in another Trouba-like extension for a non-elite defender again.

I mean, jeez, speaking of narratives.... look in the mirror.
When someone says that there are 4 LDs on the way and some are going to be quite good, there is an inherent presumption that people are knocking on the door.

What you are doing is taking prospects that have not proven anything and waiving a magic wand and saying "two of them will make for top-4". That then gives you the ability to state that the Rangers should not be looking for trade partners for LD but should do something else that you want. The thing is that none of them showed that they are close to being ready. Not yet at least. And even after they become ready, the chances of them instantly becoming top-4 is even lower.

The view is not looking at worst case scenarios, it is what is realistic in the next several years. One thing is that it is unrealistic to truly compete with the left side the way it looks today. Another is that it is unrealistic to expect kids that have either a) never stepped a toe onto NA ice or b) never played above juniors to be able to step into such a role. Sure it happens, but no one is going to bank on that or plan for that.

And I would easily take a Trouba like defender and pair him with well, Trouba rather than hope that some kid that is nowhere near the NHL can step into that spot over the next several years.
 

mas0764

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Miller and Robertson are the main 2 games for me following by Jones. but yes that is based on hope and they are probably a year + from being in the NHL, maybe 3+ years away from being good established players approaching their potential...so I like the long term future but it definitely will take some time to do it internally...

and note my goal is to build a championship blueline, the lower bar of being better than staal at this point does not move the needle when it comes to rushing a prospect.

3+ years for even 1 or 2 of them to stick seems unduly pessimistic to me.
 
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