Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part XL

[NYR Viper]

What if Borgstrom signs in the KHL?

Maybe a silly question, but of Borgstrom goes to the KHL this season, does that make him exempt from the expansion draft? That may be valuable to a team like the Rangers

 

[Leetch3]

IDK about Borgstrom. Other than running out on his team, they've been pretty damn similar in terms of production.

that should say 'in addition to running out on his team"

 

[NYR Viper]

Also, Borgstrom is the type of player I could see the Rangers looking to trade Lias for. Both kids need a change.

 

[nyr2k2]

that should say 'in addition to running out on his team"

I'm not sure what you mean.

 

[Leetch3]

I'm not sure what you mean.

both guys ran out on their teams and also didn't produce so they are similar in both aspects.

 

[nyr2k2]

both guys ran out on their teams and also didn't produce so they are similar in both aspects.

Borgstrom is considering signing a deal with a KHL team when the NHL season concludes and he becomes an RFA. That's totally different than Lias quitting in the middle of the season and getting suspended.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Why do you think he's a safer bet? He's almost a year over and not exactly coming off a good season.

He's more mature (although it doesn't take much to be more mature than Puljujärvi)

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Bobby Ryan Murray Murdoch.

Bill Kyle Connor McDavid Quinn Hughes

 

[effen]

Lias would tick a lot of boxes the forward lineup could use if he pans out. I wouldn't trade him in a lateral deal or even for a slight upgrade in a vacuum.

 

[McSauer]

Lias would tick a lot of boxes the forward lineup could use if he pans out. I wouldn't trade him in a lateral deal or even for a slight upgrade in a vacuum.

What boxes would that be? Honest question, as he's shown zilch in North America, and even less than that when actually in the NHL. Face it, he just cannot play in the NHL, he doesn't have it--nothing he has shown since the moment he was drafted says otherwise, and we should move on ASAP for even a gamble.

 

[nyr2k2]

What boxes would that be? Honest question, as he's shown zilch in North America, and even less than that when actually in the NHL. Face it, he just cannot play in the NHL, he doesn't have it--nothing he has shown since the moment he was drafted says otherwise, and we should move on ASAP for even a gamble.

His performance in the SHL in his D+1 year was very good. His performance in the WC and with the national team was very good for his age. Then, he played really well in the AHL when he first came over. And he had 12 points in 12 games to start the 18-19 season. To that point, he was a very accomplished prospect who seemed on track to succeed. Of course, he packed it in after that.

Look, I'm ready to move on from Baby Lias if a fair deal comes along. I'm just done with him. And yes, he has struggled at the NHL level. But let's not go overboard and make it sound like the has sucked since the day we picked him, and like he couldn't even play in the AHL. That shit's just not true and it doesn't help the conversation.

 

[haveandare]

What boxes would that be? Honest question, as he's shown zilch in North America, and even less than that when actually in the NHL. Face it, he just cannot play in the NHL, he doesn't have it--nothing he has shown since the moment he was drafted says otherwise, and we should move on ASAP for even a gamble.

What he showed in the AHL initially definitely says otherwise. You don’t have to like him but that’s just a fact.

 

[mas0764]

We already have #13OA. No need to be greedy.

I think there is a reason to be greedy.

Picking inside the top 10 versus at 13 might be the difference in selecting before the elite talent runs out versus after (like in 2017).

I would much, much rather get a sliding Rossi or Raymond than getting stuck with like Jarvis, Zary or Holloway.

 

[egelband]

Bill Kyle Connor McDavid Quinn Hughes

 

[effen]

What boxes would that be? Honest question, as he's shown zilch in North America, and even less than that when actually in the NHL. Face it, he just cannot play in the NHL, he doesn't have it--nothing he has shown since the moment he was drafted says otherwise, and we should move on ASAP for even a gamble.

I feel like that's not an honest question.

 

[UnSandvich]

I feel like that's not an honest question.

I disagree. It's an honest question, just from someone who has no interest in receiving an actual answer, just their own (incorrect) answer regurgitated back at them.

 

[effen]

I disagree. It's an honest question, just from someone who has no interest in receiving an actual answer, just their own (incorrect) answer regurgitated back at them.

[Worried laughter.]

 

[Savant]

I think there is a reason to be greedy.

Picking inside the top 10 versus at 13 might be the difference in selecting before the elite talent runs out versus after (like in 2017).

I would much, much rather get a sliding Rossi or Raymond than getting stuck with like Jarvis, Zary or Holloway.

In don’t think there is a lot of recent evidence that teams in the top ten have a big appetite to move down. Wouldn’t count on this or be disappointed if it doesn’t happen.

 

[Fitzy]

The guy I've always compared Lias's upside to in Steve Rucchin didn't make the NHL until 24.

It's only been 3 years since he was drafted- same year as Morgan Barron. He can't be considered a bust yet. His value is way down, so I'd rather just hold onto him and hope he pans out.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

The guy I've always compared Lias's upside to in Steve Rucchin didn't make the NHL until 24.

It's only been 3 years since he was drafted- same year as Morgan Barron. He can't be considered a bust yet. His value is way down, so I'd rather just hold onto him and hope he pans out.

- Zuccarello just left the Norwegian league for the SHL when he was Lias' age
- Kreider spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted
- Granlund spent 3 full years in Liiga after he was drafted
- Gaudreau spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted

There are a lot of examples of players who weren't NHL regulars until well after their 21st birthday. I know Lias hasn't really done anything to earn an NHL spot right this second, but at age 21, Morgan Barron is considered a legit prospect, while Lias, same age, is already a bust? That makes no sense.

 

[UnSandvich]

- Zuccarello just left the Norwegian league for the SHL when he was Lias' age
- Kreider spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted
- Granlund spent 3 full years in Liiga after he was drafted
- Gaudreau spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted

There are a lot of examples of players who weren't NHL regulars until well after their 21st birthday. I know Lias hasn't really done anything to earn an NHL spot right this second, but at age 21, Morgan Barron is considered a legit prospect, while Lias, same age, is already a bust? That makes no sense.

Because they didn't hurt peoples feelings, this year or when he was drafted

 

[Avery16]

- Zuccarello just left the Norwegian league for the SHL when he was Lias' age
- Kreider spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted
- Granlund spent 3 full years in Liiga after he was drafted
- Gaudreau spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted

There are a lot of examples of players who weren't NHL regulars until well after their 21st birthday. I know Lias hasn't really done anything to earn an NHL spot right this second, but at age 21, Morgan Barron is considered a legit prospect, while Lias, same age, is already a bust? That makes no sense.

You…you know where you posted this, right?

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You…you know where you posted this, right?

Touche

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

- Zuccarello just left the Norwegian league for the SHL when he was Lias' age
- Kreider spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted
- Granlund spent 3 full years in Liiga after he was drafted
- Gaudreau spent 3 full years in college after he was drafted

There are a lot of examples of players who weren't NHL regulars until well after their 21st birthday. I know Lias hasn't really done anything to earn an NHL spot right this second, but at age 21, Morgan Barron is considered a legit prospect, while Lias, same age, is already a bust? That makes no sense.

Maybe "bust" isn't the exact word people want to use. I feel it's more "bust" in a strictly NYR POV - he's been openly pouty about playing in the AHL (portraying a sense of entitlement and expecting to be handed ice time), how he was handled by the organization, dodging conversation with the FO after the fact and again blaming everything else when he did start talking (has since started to thaw that and explain what was actually going on with him), potentially deceitful re: whatever his foot issues were and "being forced to play through it" or whatever, etc. Lots of things said that left sour tastes in people's mouths. When you contrast all that against the biggest reasons he was picked, being his amazing character and compete level, it's that much more jarring. It was a wasted pick and player for us at this point so the knee-jerk term to throw out is that he's a bust and he'll never be an NHL player based on how he's acted and played for us.

The difference between labeling Lias a bust and Barron a legit prospect is probably due to people's perception of Barron's attitude vs. Lias's. While both had expressed their desires to play in the NHL/for the Rangers, Lias has since seemed to piss it away in a less than endearing way while Barron kept trucking along.

 

[nyr2k2]

If he was struggling to adjust but busting his ass and showing that leadership and determination everyone talked about, I think there would be a lot more patience with him.

Instead, he's acted scummy. Chalk it up to youth or transitioning to a new country, however you want to explain it away, it is what it is. His game hasn't been great AND his attitude sucks ass. Too soon to definitively call him a bust, but he's sure as shit on that path. Hopefully he can turn it around.