Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Irishguy42]

Because hes loveable and gritty and untouchable if we ignore the fact that he was MIA for most of the season and that he only led the team in scoring because Kreider and Zibanejad got hurt, the coach hated Buchnevich and he got nearly triple the PP time that Hayes got.

Stay woke

 

[Beacon]

You write off everyone as quickly as possible

And yet, not one of the players I wrote off came back to bite me. If anything, every mistake I made was due to a refusal to write someone off, sticking by the hope that McIlrath, Hrivik or Graves can make it.

If anything, I'm far more optimistic than I should be. Go look at my old comments in prospect threads or prospect polls. The issue is that fans of all teams always assume that every prospect hits his most hyped up ceiling. Someone who will one day will become a second liner is viewed as an incredible blue chipper and if another team asks for him in a trade, the whole forum has a heart attack. Anyone showing any two-way game at all (e.g., Fast) is viewed as a possible top-6F. Crappy prospects who are barely average in college and who won't sniff the NHL are viewed as likely bottom-6 guys.

No criticism of a prospect is allowed, even saying that it will take a kid a little time to catch up. I always stuck by the idea that Kreider was our #1 prospect (before he made it), but I received incredible hate during the lockout for saying Kreider - based on watching him every single game in Hartford - isn't yet NHL-ready. He scored 5 goals in a sheltered role in the playoffs, so clearly I was saying crazy things just to troll everyone because everyone knew he'll immediately be on the first or second line. Because even suggesting that a kid may not be immediately ready = trolling.

Look at what I wrote about Lindgren in the Minor Leagues thread. I like him. I like him alot. I just don't think he's an NHL defenseman today.

 

[RangerBoy]

Isn't this what we all pretty much wanted? For Grabs to head to NJ and not put up big goals/points and come back here on a decent 2-3 year deal?
Like mentioned before put him on the 3rd or 4th line not top 6 and he will be more than fine. Obviously depends on the other moves we make or don't make (kovalchuk, other NHL free agents, etc) but I highly doubt Grabner will become a Smith no matter what coach we bring in.

Grabner could be an AV system player. He has sucked everywhere except one season with the Islanders and nearly two years with the Rangers.

 

[Ola]

Grabner could be an AV system player. He has sucked everywhere except one season with the Islanders and nearly two years with the Rangers.

AV gave Grabner a ton of D zone starts, and then had his line execute plenty of set transition plays using Grabs speed.

Still a little surprised he isn't doing better elsewhere. He is a talented hockey player.

 

[wafflepadsave]

Wow, with Anaheim and the kings falling apart, they might come calling for secondary scoring (Zuccarello).

 

[Nopuckluck]

Wow, with Anaheim and the kings falling apart, they might come calling for secondary scoring (Zuccarello).

Zucc (I really don’t want to see him gone) plus one of our firsts this year for one of Anaheim’s young D (Montour, Manson)

 

[Edge]

Wow, with Anaheim and the kings falling apart, they might come calling for secondary scoring (Zuccarello).

I would definitely consider the Ducks a potential landing spot for Zucc, should the Rangers decide to go that route.

 

[NYR Viper]

Zucc (I really don’t want to see him gone) plus one of our firsts this year for one of Anaheim’s young D (Montour, Manson)

If anything, this year with the injury to Fowler has exposed their lack of speed and transition on the back-end. I am doubtful they would move either of those guys.

 

[RangerBoy]

Arthur Staple

What it will take: A number with a lot of zeroes after it. There's chatter around the league that the magic number to sign Tavares on July 1 is $88 million, which comes out to roughly $12.6-million per on a seven-year deal. Expand that out a year for the Islanders and you've got a nice, round $100 million or so.

That's the starting point, of course. If Tavares gives the Islanders an indication he wants to stay, then that number may change, depending on where the Isles sit after making any draft-table deals. But it won't change much, especially for the Islanders, since they have already ceded leverage to their star in this negotiation.

Who's in the hunt: Who isn't? Probably the Rangers, for starters — despite the juicy thoughts of Ranger fans, there doesn't appear to be much interest from the team and even less from Tavares' side. He may leave, but he's not looking to dunk on the Islander fans who supported him for nearly a decade.

If (most likely when) Tavares gets to the five-day window between the NHL Draft and July 1 when he can speak to suitors, there will certainly be teams that are hungry for his attention: Think the Red Wings, Canucks, Canadiens, Senators, Panthers, Blues, Coyotes, Hurricanes and Sabres.

Sitting here now, two-plus months from the sweepstakes, there are a couple teams that stand out: The Sharks, who have the cap space and the winning pedigree to appeal to Tavares; and the Golden Knights, whose surprising first season keeps getting more and more interesting. Vegas, which made a serious trade deadline pitch for Erik Karlsson, could use a star to cement itself as something other than a one-hit wonder.

There's also the remote sign-and-trade possibility, which opens up avenues to teams that might not have had a shot without a deal in place and a trade to be made. That might rope in the Lightning, who have little cap space but plenty of good, young players the Islanders would love. And hey, maybe someone could convince Evgeni Malkin to waive his no-move and swap places with Tavares? Why not think big!

A detailed breakdown of the Islanders' unrestricted free...

 

[NYR Viper]

Didn't we hear the same thing about Stamkos though? He ended up getting $8.5m. DO people really believe Tavares gets $4m more per yer than Stamkos? I think he gets in the $9-9.5m per season range and I am thinking it's Montreal or SJ

 

[Mac n Gs]

Didn't we hear the same thing about Stamkos though? He ended up getting $8.5m. DO people really believe Tavares gets $4m more per yer than Stamkos? I think he gets in the $9-9.5m per season range and I am thinking it's Montreal or SJ

Florida income tax plays a HUGE factor there.

 

[I Eat Crow]

And yet, not one of the players I wrote off came back to bite me. If anything, every mistake I made was due to a refusal to write someone off, sticking by the hope that McIlrath, Hrivik or Graves can make it.

If anything, I'm far more optimistic than I should be. Go look at my old comments in prospect threads or prospect polls. The issue is that fans of all teams always assume that every prospect hits his most hyped up ceiling. Someone who will one day will become a second liner is viewed as an incredible blue chipper and if another team asks for him in a trade, the whole forum has a heart attack. Anyone showing any two-way game at all (e.g., Fast) is viewed as a possible top-6F. Crappy prospects who are barely average in college and who won't sniff the NHL are viewed as likely bottom-6 guys.

No criticism of a prospect is allowed, even saying that it will take a kid a little time to catch up. I always stuck by the idea that Kreider was our #1 prospect (before he made it), but I received incredible hate during the lockout for saying Kreider - based on watching him every single game in Hartford - isn't yet NHL-ready. He scored 5 goals in a sheltered role in the playoffs, so clearly I was saying crazy things just to troll everyone because everyone knew he'll immediately be on the first or second line. Because even suggesting that a kid may not be immediately ready = trolling.

Look at what I wrote about Lindgren in the Minor Leagues thread. I like him. I like him alot. I just don't think he's an NHL defenseman today.

Honestly, I trust your evaluation of our prospects the most. A lot of us get over optimistic about our prospects (myself included), but I always look forward to reading your analysis. Keep posting

I agree with you on Lindgren, by the way. I think he's at least 1.5 years away from an NHL cup of coffee, never mind a full time spot.

 

[NYR Viper]

Florida income tax plays a HUGE factor there.

This is a good point, but do people really think he will get that much more?

 

[I Eat Crow]

Arthur Staple



A detailed breakdown of the Islanders' unrestricted free...

Good. Let Montreal overpay for him or let him bake in the desert.

 

[I Eat Crow]

Arthur Staple



A detailed breakdown of the Islanders' unrestricted free...

Good. Let Montreal overpay for him or let him bake in the desert.

 

[RangerBoy]

This is a good point, but do people really think he will get that much more?

Yes. Stamkos took less to stay in Tampa. He would have gotten $11M-$12M to leave Tampa.

When Canada's Sportsnet reported Saturday that the Lightning had offered captain Steven Stamkos an eight-year, $68 million deal, a popular reaction from fans and pundits was, "That's it?"
After all, if accurate, the $8.5 million annual average ($1 million more than his current salary) would put

Stamkos eighth in the league, shy of the $10 million that Kings star Anze Kopitar signed for this month, and $2 million less than the supposed benchmark of the $10.5 million each for Blackhawks stars Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane.

Was it a lowball offer from the Lightning? Not so fast. The Tampa Bay Times dug deeper into the numbers, with the help of nationally renowned sports tax guru Robert Raiola, revealing potential x-factors: no state income taxes in Florida and the Lightning's ability to guarantee an eighth year on the contract. Raiola calculated that if Stamkos takes $8.5 million with the Lightning, it would net almost the same annually as $10 million in New York, presuming he'd be a New York City resident (see chart). He'd net roughly $500,000 less annually than $10 million deals in St. Louis or Detroit, due to city and state taxes, but take in more money over the length of his contract.

In Toronto, Stamkos' hometown, there's a proposed 53.53 percent federal/provincial tax if he's a Canadian resident. So even if the Maple Leafs offer $10 million annually, Stamkos would net $7 million less total over the length of the deal compared one at $8.5 million annually in Tampa Bay, partly thanks to an eighth year. Stamkos would even make just $1.4 million less total than Kopitar over his eight-year deal with the Kings, assuming Kopitar is a California resident.

Tax tricks: How an $8.5M Lightning contract keeping Steven Stamkos in Tampa is better than $10.5M to leave

 

[Mac n Gs]

This is a good point, but do people really think he will get that much more?

I mean in NY it’s like 8.8% income tax vs 0 in Florida. Compare your own salary to what it would be without an income tax, and you tell me

 

[RangerBoy]

There was speculation last summer about Tavares and Tampa. He likes Tampa. After the trade deadline,Arthur Staple discussed the various trades made and pointed out the Rangers did the Islanders a favor with that trade and TB might have taken themselves out of the Tavares situation after adding McDonagh and Miller.

 

[Vinny DeAngelo]

Offensively Grabner is very much a one trick pony. AVs system had him doing that trick every shift

 

[wafflepadsave]

Very good point. That may have been what Henrik was after. It must be downright disgusting to see guys give up in front of you as a goalie.

Maybe a couple of guys but they they kept winning when we were begging them to lose. This was a once in a lifetime chance to get elite talent.

 

[NYR Viper]

• On the lack of toughness, "I agree and it does have to be addressed. We do want to be a team that plays harder and in the last couple of months we were void in that area and it became more and more clear and it's something that will be addressed."

What Jeff Gorton said on the radio Monday about AV, Lundqvist and more


I am glad Gorton will look to address the lack of emotion and physicality this team has

 

[silverfish]

What Jeff Gorton said on the radio Monday about AV, Lundqvist and more


I am glad Gorton will look to address the lack of emotion and physicality this team has

Would much rather him address the lack of skill. Seems like a bigger priority, to me, but what do I know.

 

[Off Sides]

I don't think what Boston does at this point will be proof anything other than doing it the way they did can work or can fail (for now), but we knew that already. Any method of building a team CAN work. Look at Vegas. I just think that, given the salary cap and player values relative to their cap hits, it makes sense to lean more heavily on drafting than signing UFAs. High priced free agents are rarely worth their cap hit. People like to say that free agents are free, nothing but money, but that isn't really true under a salary cap. Since the cap has been implemented, we have had more success shopping in the bargain bin than we have by buying brand name. Too often we as fans, and Rangers management, has looked to free agency to find our best players. I think we can see pretty clearly now that that doesn't work. Sure, you might get a Chara or a Hossa, but that's one quality piece added to an already strong foundation, not the keystone player upon which the team is built around.

Which is exactly why we shouldn't be looking at Tavares or Karlsson. We need to build the foundation first, then we can look to supplement via free agency.

I agree with the UFA stuff, always have.

My thoughts are more with what type of team are they building and if that can be compared to any winner of the Cup since the salary cap. I see Boston as that similarity, not this years team, the one who won it. However that is one team, one year, where as the rest the Cup winning teams since the cap all had very early picks, some multiple times.

So yes there is more than one way to build a Cup winner, but since the salary cap any type of build which did not include early picks has done so once, and even then I am not including Seguin.

If Vegas wins the Cup, or some other team who did not pick very early in the draft wins it this year, I'd be more swayed by the argument that there are really multiple ways to build a Cup winner under a salary cap, but for now, to me at least it kind of looks like that Boston Cup winning team was more so an outlier where as all the other winners sort of bottomed out for a couple years, used their early picks, and used them as the foundation to build a Cup team around.

Which is why I am asking what are the Rangers trying to build for next season? Why they should not be selling more than they already have? If they never reach the bottom of the bell curve I just find it unlikely they ever reach the pinnacle of it either. (I understand that is a delicate thing, to not be stuck at the bottom of the curve either, so I understand the reluctance but I fear all the ended up doing so far sets them on a path to eventually be good but not good enough to Win a Cup)

I think they need to sell more, even if that is players that could make them competitive next year, use the Vegas build in that scenario, sell anything that can get them more lottery tickets and back fill that with stuff that is similar to what Vegas had to choose from.

 

[NYR Viper]

Would much rather him address the lack of skill. Seems like a bigger priority, to me, but what do I know.

I'm not sure why it has to be a binary decision

 

[Ghost of jas]

Arthur Staple



A detailed breakdown of the Islanders' unrestricted free...

Can we pin this for every poster who thinks the Rangers can and should throw money st Tavares...and maybe a few media members, too?