Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XIV: There ain't no gettin' off of this train we're on

[Ola]

Trying to find the article by Joe Smith (Bolts beat), but he said that Yzerman wanted Miller, and Gorton then asked for Namestnikov in return.

In that order.

Yeah, but I am pretty sure both GMs would claim to have gotten the players they wanted, not guys they had to take to make the big picture work.

Just saying, Gorton is not calling up Stevie Y saying hey I got this young 24 y/o winger named JT Miller do you want him and I would want X and Y does it sound good? It’s not the rumor boards we are talking about...

It’s pretty simple, nobody want to show their hand. But you also don’t want to waste time and lose all respect for each other by having to deal with ridiculous feelers left and right.

-Yzerman knows McD is available. JT Miller too. Gorton let everyone know who was available.

-When the first contact is made Yzerman isn’t calling up Gorton offering X or Y or Z, he asks what Gorton is looking for.

-In the next step Yzerman makes available information on pieces he might consider to move that fits Gorton’s bill.

-Gorton consider that info and the talk proceeds back and forth. He might let Stevie know that it’s not enough, he need more names, might point at a player or two not made available, might ask for more pieces on the list than Y is willing to move and so forth.

But sometimes there is an illusion that GMs like present “proposals” to each other like we do at this place that definitely is false. Like Yzerman calling up Gorts “Jeff are you in front of the computer? I am mailing something big to you are you prepared?” And there is a mail sent with a Tampa logo with 4 names under it and a NYR logo with 2 names under it. “Fantastic right? Do we got a deal?” It wouldn’t work because it would just be so ineffective and it would also really test the respect these guys ha e for each other. The first offer would have to be low ball offers. You don’t want to ask for a 2nd round if you could get a 1st. It’s also two professional GMs we are talking about, there can only be a very very minor part of “selling” an offer involved. You don’t care one bit what the other guy thinks about one player or prospect or whatever, you can of course only trust your info.

 

[Ola]

The only thing we know is that AV called out JT Miller several times — but all those instances were related to on ice issues. Miller tried to do too much, took bad penalties and stuff like that.

From everything we know, there would have been an absolute zero tolerance for any kind of more significant off ice issues with players on this team.

For me it just don’t even remotely add up that Miller could have had any bigger issues off the ice and get the role he has for this team and go as far as he have hear. He would have been history yesterday. Sure there could have been falling out in the locker room. Miller requesting more ice time, a bigger role. Having a tantrum. Whatever. But it’s still very minor stuff compared to what some are hinting at with very very little to base it on.

 

[Blais to Win]

White plains

I am basing it on the premise that the guy might be THE guy in a different market. I remember rumors that Boston sending him to Dallas was also a little bit of a screw you to seguin bc they knew how much he liked being in a big lively city and market like Boston. NY has to be pretty appealing to him and a lot of guys. All they have to do is wait for free agency. A lot of guys are right there, this summer or next. Rangers cleared the bank partially to be a landing spot for these big guys coming up if they want to come to NY. Everything came into account on why they had to do it now. That's definitely part of it, otherwises gorton and company are not doing their jobs. You are a team everyone wants to play for, as the GM of that team you have to know and be prepping and able to make a play for these guys. And they now have the ability too. And a pirates booty worth of players, prospects, and picks.

And every exiting player landed in an ideal spot. Beautifully done

You know, this fits the profile of this franchise much more than the tank and rebuild strategy.

Wonder if we’re looking at one or two UFA defensemen and who they might be?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

You know, this fits the profile of this franchise much more than the tank and rebuild strategy.

Wonder if we’re looking at one or two UFA defensemen and who they might be?

No one this year outside of maybe a few guys they can scoop up on 1 year deals.

And selling when still in the "playoff hunt" isn't in this franchises DNA either yet they still went through with it.

Some of you are going to struggle to come to grips with the fact that this isn't going to be an offseason makeover.

 

[AKA Chief]

Yeah, but I am pretty sure both GMs would claim to have gotten the players they wanted, not guys they had to take to make the big picture work.

Just saying, Gorton is not calling up Stevie Y saying hey I got this young 24 y/o winger named JT Miller do you want him and I would want X and Y does it sound good? It’s not the rumor boards we are talking about...

It’s pretty simple, nobody want to show their hand. But you also don’t want to waste time and lose all respect for each other by having to deal with ridiculous feelers left and right.

-Yzerman knows McD is available. JT Miller too. Gorton let everyone know who was available.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you but Gorton was on the radio (Michael Kaye Show) soon after the deadline and said that he had spoken about McD w/ Yzerman but Miller was brought up for the first time on deadline day.

 

[Lion Hound]

I’ve seen Hank have animated discussions with just about every defenseman he’s played with for a significant amount of time.

yep, I've seen Hank have discussion often with players. Have you even seen a defender have the same type of conversation that Stepan and Miller did?

 

[Lion Hound]

Those aren't consistencies, they are coincidences.

Could be. I'm not in the room so I really don't know. But it's still relevant. Both happened. Both are gone.

 

[Tawnos]

yep, I've seen Hank have discussion often with players. Have you even seen a defender have the same type of conversation that Stepan and Miller did?

Staal had one with him like 2 weeks ago.

 

[Lion Hound]

Staal had one with him like 2 weeks ago.

I don't remember that. Did Hank give it to him?

 

[Tawnos]

Trying to find the article by Joe Smith (Bolts beat), but he said that Yzerman wanted Miller, and Gorton then asked for Namestnikov in return.

In that order.

Yeah that’s what I remember too.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't remember that. Did Hank give it to him?

Yeah. Staal was yapping back.

 

[Mac n Gs]

I don't remember that. Did Hank give it to him?

I think it’s an Occam’s Razor situation here. Stepan had a long-term commitment on his contract and Gorton had the opportunity to get a young RD with top-4 upside to drive offense from the backend (we didn’t have Shatty yet) and a top-10 first round pick. It also cleared up salary that let them sign Shatty.

Miller is due for a pay raise and Brooks hinted that it may be too much for Gorton’s liking. I’m still not happy about moving either, but it’s a lot more about a future money commitment when they’re trying to rebuild rather than Hank staring daggers at his players because their defensive structure is ass.

 

[Lion Hound]

I think it’s an Occam’s Razor situation here. Stepan had a long-term commitment on his contract and Gorton had the opportunity to get a young RD with top-4 upside to drive offense from the backend (we didn’t have Shatty yet) and a top-10 first round pick. It also cleared up salary that let them sign Shatty.

Miller is due for a pay raise and Brooks hinted that it may be too much for Gorton’s liking. I’m still not happy about moving either, but it’s a lot more about a future money commitment when they’re trying to rebuild rather than Hank staring daggers at his players because their defensive structure is ass.

I literally had to google Occam's razor cause I had no idea what it was.

Occam's razor is the problem-solving principle that, when presented with competing hypothetical answers to a problem, one should select the one that makes the fewest assumptions. Wikipedia

 

[Blais to Win]

Some of you are going to struggle to come to grips with the fact that this isn't going to be an offseason makeover.

I made myself clear in another thread: unlike many here I realize that how I feel about the organization does not impact how the organization behaves.

That said, I've got almost 30 years of fan experience under my belt that says that this organization is gearing up for UFAs.

You might need to "come to grips" with it if it happens. Not me.

 

[Kovalev27]

Trading J.T. Miller was a horrible move when it happened it looks worse now which anyone who’s watched the kid knew was going to happen

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

I made myself clear in another thread: unlike many here I realize that how I feel about the organization does not impact how the organization behaves.

That said, I've got almost 30 years of fan experience under my belt that says that this organization is gearing up for UFAs.

You might need to "come to grips" with it if it happens. Not me.

Did you not read my first sentence?

They just went through with something that they've never done (selling while still being in it.) That alone should signal to everyone that they're taking a different approach this time around.

Your years of fan experience mean nothing to me. JG's actions however, do.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Trading J.T. Miller was a horrible move when it happened it looks worse now which anyone who’s watched the kid knew was going to happen

Yea because playing with Stamkos Kucherov and Hedman doesn't help his production

 

[JayMan82]

I think it’s an Occam’s Razor situation here. Stepan had a long-term commitment on his contract and Gorton had the opportunity to get a young RD with top-4 upside to drive offense from the backend (we didn’t have Shatty yet) and a top-10 first round pick. It also cleared up salary that let them sign Shatty.

Miller is due for a pay raise and Brooks hinted that it may be too much for Gorton’s liking. I’m still not happy about moving either, but it’s a lot more about a future money commitment when they’re trying to rebuild rather than Hank staring daggers at his players because their defensive structure is ass.

Miller's positives will cost you in the wallet (not optimal for us nor the Lightning) and his negatives will cost you in the D zone.

I gotta admit I may have had some rose colored glasses observing JT's play as a Ranger, but he already has a handful of gamepad disconnect efforts in the D zone for what I've seen the last couple of weeks.

Despite the lesser of the two point producers, the two-way play of Namestnikov is MUCH better than Millers. He won't hurt nearly in the pocket as Miller as well (at least a million or so less).

 

[ThirdEye]

Trading J.T. Miller was a horrible move when it happened it looks worse now which anyone who’s watched the kid knew was going to happen

I think that's yet to be determined. He's playing with two of the best players in the league... not surprising that he's putting up points. I do think he got undue flak when he was here though

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Trading J.T. Miller was a horrible move when it happened it looks worse now which anyone who’s watched the kid knew was going to happen

Do you feel the same way about Boston trading Spooner?

 

[Tawnos]

I don’t think trading Miller has any tangible impact on the future of this team.

 

[Ori]

I hope we hit with an elite talent this summer - it`s what this franchise need for this rebuild.

 

[JayMan82]

I hope we hit with an elite talent this summer - it`s what this franchise need for this rebuild.

I hope we ALREADY hit with one of the assets we picked up this past year. One or two more wouldn't hurt though...

 

[Ori]

Yes, I`m excited to see both Chytil & Lias in action in near future.

 

[YoSoyLalo]

Miller's positives will cost you in the wallet (not optimal for us nor the Lightning) and his negatives will cost you in the D zone.

This is it in a nutshell.

Namestnikov will likely be cheaper, making him cost effective, and overall, more valuable