Speculation: Roster Building Thread Part XII: The Great Sell-off of 2018

[NYR]

I'd probably trade Smith for Andrew Shaw if the Habs were interested. I think the Rangers could use a winger at this point more than a defenseman. Shaw has an extra year on his contract but has a smaller cap hit ($3.9m). 19 points in 43 games this season and he is a RH shot. Plays in front of the net on the PP when needed. Even if he plays on the 3rd line I think he would be fine for the next couple of seasons at the very least and provide some energy and edge.

I like this idea a lot..

 

[Roo Returns]

Smith for any of Lucic, Boedker, Bobby Ryan, Shaw but a first rounder comes back with any of them maybe even next year.

Yes Ryan's cap hit stinks and Lucic's isn't great, but if this team is going full rebuild, they can afford absorb the hit now and then maybe get lucky and amnesty them in 2020.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Do you know why Smith was better in the playoffs than he is right now? Two reasons. 1. AV let Smith play the game that Smith wanted to play. AV wasn't worried about his stupid ass system like he is this year. 2. Smith was in much better shape. The former is on the coach. The latter is on the player. I want to see Smith a full year after coming into camp in shape and with a new coach. If next year he is equally as bad with at least one of those two things being fixed then we can say it was a bad signing.

This is what I meant about expert opinions. Kind of proving the point of my post. Leading off with “do you know why” and the giving me bullet points as if to say “these are THE facts and if you disagree you’re an idiot” fits the mold I was describing.

I know, I know. It isn’t possible that Smith is just the exact same player he was for 5+ years in Detroit. It’s definitely that the 18 regular season games he played after being traded in a contract year and the 12 playoff games are the real Smith and the 5+ years of hockey he played in this league before that were the outlier. And that every other hockey fan in the world was wrong because “they clearly didn’t watch Smith in the playoffs last year”. I’m sorry, but you couldn’t have illustrated the point better. Not only do you refuse to really consider that maybe you were just fooled by Smith playing his ass off in a contract year but you insist on being condescending about it as well.

You want to wait another year, by all means. I doubt there is any chance any team agrees with your assessment and would take on Smith’s contract so we’ll definitely have the chance. When you watch Smith play, the boneheaded passes, bad penalties, bobbled pucks, turnovers... it isn’t all on the system. I’ve decried AV’s coaching as much as anyone but Smith was simply never that good. I liked the Red Wings “dynasty” teams as a teenager and followed the Wings reasonably closely until Datsyuk left. I’ve seen plenty of Brendan Smith and just like most Wings fans will tell you, this is simply the player he is.

 

[silverfish]

This really shouldn't be a complicated deadline at all.

Fire
AV

Promote
Arniel to Interim HC
Ruff to offense
Schoeny goes on the bench for D to end the year

Sell
Nash
Grabner
Holden
Desharnais
Carey

for best offer. Even if best offer sucks. No reason to hold these guys.

Re-evaluate
McDonagh
Zuccarello
Everyone else

under a coach that doesn't suck ass.

 

[Kocur Dill]

How many 3rd/4th line fluky players put the knife in our playoff runs the past few years? Mitchell in LA, Bostons 4th line, Tampa rolling 4 lines better than us.

A 3rd/4th line player who can produce his own offense has a role on a SC hopefull that is already top 6 deep. And he is strong on the PK.

For once, we benefit from a UFA signing who entered their prime with us, instead of after he left or started the decline the day we signed him. I know it's an unusual position for US NYR fans to comprehend. Lets enjoy this. I'm optimistic Grabs gets us a good asset.

 

[ManUtdTobbe]

Why settle for rebuild. Should think rebrand also.
The New York Mulligans

This doesn't even make sense.

 

[offdacrossbar]

im actually excited for this rebuild

we absolutely need high end players who can make a difference be it forwards or dmen. we lack that and always have. no more FA's thank you. develop youth with talent.

and i agree with the above.

fire av.
sell the names everyone else is mentioning for high picks and nhl ready bodies.
promote the kids.

find the can. dont kick it. squash it.

 

[Riche16]

On the italic, it seems to me that the retool was going to go one of two ways:

1) it would keep the team competitive while piling up talent and then the rangers would come out a good team later in the year or beginning of next season
2) the retool would not keep the team competitive and turn into a rebuild.

I remember reading a post on here like a year ago when people were saying how this retool could possibly be a "stealth rebuild", and it looks like they were right. Right now the only move that makes no sense to me is the Girardi buyout coupled with the Smith signing. Not that Girardi is any good but if the Rangers were going to use this year as transition year, then I am not sure why they bought out Girardi and signed smith--unless they saw an upgrade to smith.

Long and short, I think a lot of the quick fixes didn't work:
Andersson couldn't just step into the NHL
McDonagh never got his partner
Smith regressed
Girardi showed no signs of rebounding especially since he was already given a shot to rebound with the "long offseason" the year before (remember all that chatter?)
Skjei hit a major sophomore slump
DeAngelo couldn't play out of the gate (this one is all on AV unfortunately... As if Kampfer was ever actually better than DeAngelo)
Shattenkirk with a long term injury
Kreider with a long term injury
Zibanejad Concussion hampered him

Just about everything that could go wrong for this team, this year, did... The only things that went right were:

Hayes looked good in his "Stepan role"... While he's only playing at a pace for 35 points, he's also had a glob of wingers, no actual chemistry with anyone, and this system is a joke.
DeAngelo has progressed well and is looking like a main stay on the team
AV's system has proven to be awful, and this year there is no excuse for it--the team has actually looked like trash since day one and was carried by a good powerplay--again not that the latter is a bad thing, but this coach has gone so stale, that it's a blessing that this has happened at this point. He should be fired.


I don't know if the plan was ever for this to be a massive rebuild, but I think both missed calculations, the coach losing the team, the long term injuries, and the lack of cohesiveness as a unit constitutes that the Rangers can't just band-aid this team anymore. I don't think starting with the "retool" was a bad idea--on the contrary, starting your season with "blowing it up" is horrible for morale, and we made some moves that theoretically should have had us in the 1st round of the playoffs.

Rebuilds aren't bad though in this day and age--if this is done right, the rangers are average next year but will play like a hungry team. The year after, when Chytil and Andersson make their way through, they'll start to look like a contender. Rangers did good by not pulling these guys in too quickly and not ruining their ELC slides for a wasted season. DeAngelo got some needed experience.

Add in THREE 1st round picks this year along with the two 1st round picks last year, plus a good core of:
Kreider
Shattenkirk
Hayes
Lundqvist

The suck we are seeing right now is going to be well worth it.

I completely agree with this. I don't think Gorts felt that we would COMPLETELY tear down/rebuild etc. There are a ton of factors that have shoved us down further into the basement this season... notably the injuries.

It's a perfect storm for a rebuild... strong draft, massive injuries, team not clicking anyway, some regression from some players and not enough improvement from others.

All signs point to a bottom out this year, maybe we get lucky and pick top-3... maybe the rebuild gets back on track with that but if not... stay the course and keep acquiring assets and build through the draft.

You may as well... no choice at this point.

 

[EpicDing]

This really shouldn't be a complicated deadline at all.

Fire
AV

Promote
Arniel to Interim HC
Ruff to offense
Schoeny goes on the bench for D to end the year

Sell
Nash
Grabner
Holden
Desharnais
Carey

for best offer. Even if best offer sucks. No reason to hold these guys.

Re-evaluate
McDonagh
Zuccarello
Everyone else

under a coach that doesn't suck ass.

And take the chance that firing AV wakes the team up and we squeak into the playoffs? No thanks. Fire him in the offseason.

 

[silverfish]

And take the chance that firing AV wakes the team up and we squeak into the playoffs? No thanks. Fire him in the offseason.

Things like this always make me lol.

Do something that might make us win more games? PREPOSTEROUS PREPOSITION, SIR.

I ****ing loathe tanking.

 

[EpicDing]

Things like this always make me lol.

Do something that might make us win more games? PREPOSTEROUS PREPOSITION, SIR.

I ****ing loathe tanking.

It makes no sense with the current philosophy the front office seems to be taking.

 

[TheBPA]

Things like this always make me lol.

Do something that might make us win more games? PREPOSTEROUS PREPOSITION, SIR.

I ****ing loathe tanking.

For just the rest of this season, the irrational position would be to hope this team wins more games.

 

[silverfish]

It makes no sense with the current philosophy the front office seems to be taking.

For just the rest of this season, the irrational position would be to hope this team wins more games.

The irrational thing would be to let AV ride out the season, blame injuries on a bad year, and have him still be the coach in October.

Fire him now. How much better do you think this piece of shit team that Gorton put together is under Arniel than under AV? Let's at least see if Arniel has what it takes.

Also I love how in @EpicDing's nightmare scenario, the Rangers win enough games to actually make the playoffs, and that has him angry. That's awesome.

 

[TheTakedown]

Smith should be kept. The guy has had a rough year. I am sure he would agree. The team won't be competing next season and if they retain on McDonagh, they will be admitting it to the league. He and Staal will form at least some semblance of a veteran duo on the back end. The guy should be playing LD from day 1 next season though on the left side of someone like ADA. He made $5m this year and he makes $4.525m next year. after that his real cap hit for the final two years of his deal are $3.9375m. That's not a bad contract for Smith if he can round out his game to his old self.

I have to agree on this. The post above this stating that Smith hasn't been able to play his game because this coach is f***ing OCD obsessed about his god damned rotations has me fuming right now. It's so freaking accurate.

Fire this clown, please

 

[TheTakedown]

Smith was much better then this in Detroit and during last spring, just look at the numbers, they crashed this season.
Give him a mulligan on this season and start fresh next training camp and hope he finds his game... hopefully under a new coach.

Which again points to the f***ing coach ruining yet another player. It's the system more than anything else at this point

 

[TheBPA]

The irrational thing would be to let AV ride out the season, blame injuries on a bad year, and have him still be the coach in October.

Fire him now. How much better do you think this piece of **** team that Gorton put together is under Arniel than under AV? Let's at least see if Arniel has what it takes.

Also I love how in @EpicDing's nightmare scenario, the Rangers win enough games to actually make the playoffs, and that has him angry. That's awesome.

So do you want them to win more games? Because that's literally all I said.

 

[Edge]

Things like this always make me lol.

Do something that might make us win more games? PREPOSTEROUS PREPOSITION, SIR.

I ****ing loathe tanking.

I loathe the dreaded middle where a team isn't going anywhere because they don't have enough room for growth to improve and they won't take a strategic retreat to mount a new offensive.

 

[Lion Hound]

I have a feeling that the Rangers will come out of this trade deadline with a player or two nobody thought would be here.

 

[EpicDing]

The irrational thing would be to let AV ride out the season, blame injuries on a bad year, and have him still be the coach in October.

Fire him now. How much better do you think this piece of **** team that Gorton put together is under Arniel than under AV? Let's at least see if Arniel has what it takes.

Also I love how in @EpicDing's nightmare scenario, the Rangers win enough games to actually make the playoffs, and that has him angry. That's awesome.

Am I angry? Did I say it's a nightmare scenario? f*** off. I said it would be a better decision to just leave AV and get a better draft pick.

JG took calculated gambles that didn't pay off. AV should've been fired after the Ottawa series.

This team needs to rebuild. Making the playoffs does not help that happen.

 

[TheTakedown]

Great post. Those 4 guys, Zibanejad plus the kids (Skjei, Buch, ADA) should all stay. Ship everyone else out.

Thanks. Yeah the younger guys are obvious keeps. Skjei, Buch, Zib. YOu have Shesty on the way too... Those are only the near-NHL ready talents I mentioned. There are some awesome bottom 6 pieces in our farm (remember the years when the Rangers had to spend $1.5M/year to get a bottom 6 player?)

I can't wait to see some of these guys without AV at helm. The asshole is on his 3rd defensive coach in 5 years... "but my system is perfect". f*** you, bro...

Ugh sorry, AV makes me angry.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Kreider?

 

[silverfish]

So do you want them to win more games? Because that's literally all I said.

Yeah, I have this crazy mentality where I like my team being good and doing smart things.

I loathe the dreaded middle where a team isn't going anywhere because they don't have enough room for growth to improve and they won't take a strategic retreat to mount a new offensive.

Can I tell you something? This sell off at the deadline where we get marginal returns on our rentals and draft somewhere around 15 and miss the playoffs is exactly how you become the dreaded middle.

Am I angry? Did I say it's a nightmare scenario? **** off. I said it would be a better decision to just leave AV and get a better draft pick.

JG took calculated gambles that didn't pay off. AV should've been fired after the Ottawa series.

This team needs to rebuild. Making the playoffs does not help that happen.

jlawokay.gif

Exiting this thread now. Too much group-think. Will read replies if you quote me. Will not respond.

 

[TheTakedown]

This is what I meant about expert opinions. Kind of proving the point of my post. Leading off with “do you know why” and the giving me bullet points as if to say “these are THE facts and if you disagree you’re an idiot” fits the mold I was describing.

I know, I know. It isn’t possible that Smith is just the exact same player he was for 5+ years in Detroit. It’s definitely that the 18 regular season games he played after being traded in a contract year and the 12 playoff games are the real Smith and the 5+ years of hockey he played in this league before that were the outlier. And that every other hockey fan in the world was wrong because “they clearly didn’t watch Smith in the playoffs last year”. I’m sorry, but you couldn’t have illustrated the point better. Not only do you refuse to really consider that maybe you were just fooled by Smith playing his ass off in a contract year but you insist on being condescending about it as well.

You want to wait another year, by all means. I doubt there is any chance any team agrees with your assessment and would take on Smith’s contract so we’ll definitely have the chance. When you watch Smith play, the boneheaded passes, bad penalties, bobbled pucks, turnovers... it isn’t all on the system. I’ve decried AV’s coaching as much as anyone but Smith was simply never that good. I liked the Red Wings “dynasty” teams as a teenager and followed the Wings reasonably closely until Datsyuk left. I’ve seen plenty of Brendan Smith and just like most Wings fans will tell you, this is simply the player he is.

Smith was blowing away his usage in Detroit. Look at his analytics, he was playing well above his role as a 3rd pairing guy. He's a 2nd pairing guy playing an ass backwards system that is ruining him

 

[haveandare]

And take the chance that firing AV wakes the team up and we squeak into the playoffs? No thanks. Fire him in the offseason.

Given all the injuries and given that they'd have no solid replacement HC I'd be willing to take my chances on this one.

 

[TheTakedown]

I completely agree with this. I don't think Gorts felt that we would COMPLETELY tear down/rebuild etc. There are a ton of factors that have shoved us down further into the basement this season... notably the injuries.

It's a perfect storm for a rebuild... strong draft, massive injuries, team not clicking anyway, some regression from some players and not enough improvement from others.

All signs point to a bottom out this year, maybe we get lucky and pick top-3... maybe the rebuild gets back on track with that but if not... stay the course and keep acquiring assets and build through the draft.

You may as well... no choice at this point.

That's exactly what it is. People here clamor for "picking a direction", but the season has to be evaluated on a bi weekly basis. You cannot evaluate 41 games at a time, that's asking for failure