Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

[Thirty One]

Is the focus on all of his mistakes or his ability defensively?
I thought it was the latter.

The video included offensive turnovers. And I would call anything that impacts GA defensive play, no matter what zone it happens in. And that goes both ways, the work he does to get out of the zone and ensure the Rangers aren't playing in the defensive zone, is a defensive contribution.

 

[and 99 others]

The video included offensive turnovers. And I would call anything that impacts GA defensive play, no matter what zone it happens in. And that goes both ways, the work he does to get out of the zone and ensure the Rangers aren't playing in the defensive zone, is a defensive contribution.

and to be fair to ADA, i don't have the time or ability to go looking for defensive zone exits. Unfortunately the NHL isn't putting out 5 minute clips of breakouts and offensive zone entries per game on youtube

 

[and 99 others]

Do Staal next. See you in 2030.

I'm actually going to attempt this since he only played 52 games this season. After watching the first 6 recaps I'm actually finding more times where staal is in proper positioning but he's constantly being left out to dry by his partner (not always deangelo).

I understand Staal is done and he's not an NHL defenseman anymore but this is an honest question: Would a weaker defenseman's mistakes be exacerbated from having an offense-first defensive partner?

I've seen a lot of advanced analytics that suggest Staal is even worse with other partners. Can someone walk me through some of those stats and explain what they mean?

 

[Ola]

I'm actually going to attempt this since he only played 52 games this season. After watching the first 6 recaps I'm actually finding more times where staal is in proper positioning but he's constantly being left out to dry by his partner (not always deangelo).

I understand Staal is done and he's not an NHL defenseman anymore but this is an honest question: Would a weaker defenseman's mistakes be exacerbated from having an offense-first defensive partner?

I've seen a lot of advanced analytics that suggest Staal is even worse with other partners. Can someone walk me through some of those stats and explain what they mean?

A few things somewhat related have stood out to me. A classic example is after we say have played Boston and our 1st line has been destroyed by their 1st line. Someone checks the stats and see that Staal’s CF% is bad and everything is ‘Staal’s fault’. He killed Trouba or whatever. Destroyed for everyone.

But while watching the entire game, you would have a really hard (impossible) time to put anything of it on Staal. I am on European time and saw one game against Boston on rerun after reading through a GDT were Staal absolutely was destroyed, I posted about it, can go back and check if you want. It couldn’t have been more obvious how that top unit struggled because Marchant-Bergeron-Pasta took away all their ice, Ziba and co didn’t get anywhere. When we got into the attacking zone we immediately lost the puck. We gave up several odd-man rushes. On so many shifts, Staal isn’t even close to any of the “shift-defining” plays.

 

[and 99 others]

A few things somewhat related have stood out to me. A classic example is after we say have played Boston and our 1st line has been destroyed by their 1st line. Someone checks the stats and see that Staal’s CF% is bad and everything is ‘Staal’s fault’. He killed Trouba or whatever. Destroyed for everyone.

But while watching the entire game, you would have a really hard (impossible) time to put anything of it on Staal. I am on European time and saw one game against Boston on rerun after reading through a GDT were Staal absolutely was destroyed, I posted about it, can go back and check if you want. It couldn’t have been more obvious how that top unit struggled because Marchant-Bergeron-Pasta took away all their ice, Ziba and co didn’t get anywhere. When we got into the attacking zone we immediately lost the puck. We gave up several odd-man rushes. On so many shifts, Staal isn’t even close to any of the “shift-defining” plays.

i guess its up to the +6 or -6 hour time zone users to go back and fact check for the east coast herd

 

[and 99 others]

A few things somewhat related have stood out to me. A classic example is after we say have played Boston and our 1st line has been destroyed by their 1st line. Someone checks the stats and see that Staal’s CF% is bad and everything is ‘Staal’s fault’. He killed Trouba or whatever. Destroyed for everyone.

But while watching the entire game, you would have a really hard (impossible) time to put anything of it on Staal. I am on European time and saw one game against Boston on rerun after reading through a GDT were Staal absolutely was destroyed, I posted about it, can go back and check if you want. It couldn’t have been more obvious how that top unit struggled because Marchant-Bergeron-Pasta took away all their ice, Ziba and co didn’t get anywhere. When we got into the attacking zone we immediately lost the puck. We gave up several odd-man rushes. On so many shifts, Staal isn’t even close to any of the “shift-defining” plays.

found it, this game day thread: GDT: - #9 - 10/27/19 | bruins @ RANGERS | 7:00 - MSG, NHLN

for this game:

Pretty sure Staal was the only Ranger defenseman not on the ice for any of the Bruins 7 goals that night...

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.

Yeah, giveaways are a bad stat to evaluate players. The players who have the puck the most tend to have the most giveaways. Can't give it away if you never have the puck on your stick, like Staal

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

A few things somewhat related have stood out to me. A classic example is after we say have played Boston and our 1st line has been destroyed by their 1st line. Someone checks the stats and see that Staal’s CF% is bad and everything is ‘Staal’s fault’. He killed Trouba or whatever. Destroyed for everyone.

But while watching the entire game, you would have a really hard (impossible) time to put anything of it on Staal. I am on European time and saw one game against Boston on rerun after reading through a GDT were Staal absolutely was destroyed, I posted about it, can go back and check if you want. It couldn’t have been more obvious how that top unit struggled because Marchant-Bergeron-Pasta took away all their ice, Ziba and co didn’t get anywhere. When we got into the attacking zone we immediately lost the puck. We gave up several odd-man rushes. On so many shifts, Staal isn’t even close to any of the “shift-defining” plays.

I don't know which game you're talking about in the above so I can't speak to it, but there are a TON of instances, way too many where he does kill his partner and make pretty unforgivable mistakes. The problem is that a lot of his mistakes and deficiencies are not the obvious ones so he gets painted as a "solid defensive defenseman."

 

[pld459666]

Players aren't perfect.

I'll keep DeAngelo, warts and all, for the next 8 years easily assuming the numbers make sense.

Fox may be better all around, but not as good offensively. Having that element on D is invaluable

 

[mas0764]

Lmao a whole 7 minutes and some of those weren't even on him. Not to mention most people would agree he's not good defensively. But his offensive impact is so tremendous he doesn't have to be to be extremely important

What, you mean a lowlight reel with 7-8 out of context clips aren’t enough to make an ironclad argument against signing or not signing someone???

 

[Ola]

This is what Gorton should do:

Deal 1. Chytil, Buch and Nils Lundkvist to Calgary for Johnny Hockey

Deal 2. Buy-out Staal and Smith

Deal 3. Sign Kassian and Simmonds

Kreider-Ziba-Kakko
Lindgren-Trouba

Johnny G-Laf-Panarin
Reunanen-Fox

Kravy-Strome-Fast
Staal-TDA

Simmonds-Howden-Kassian

 

[mas0764]

This is what Gorton should do:

Deal 1. Chytil, Buch and Nils Lundkvist to Calgary for Johnny Hockey

Deal 2. Buy-out Staal and Smith

Deal 3. Sign Kassian and Simmonds

Kreider-Ziba-Kakko
Lindgren-Trouba

Johnny G-Laf-Panarin
Reunanen-Fox

Kravy-Strome-Fast
Staal-TDA

Simmonds-Howden-Kassian

No.

 

[Allan92]

This is what Gorton should do:

Deal 1. Chytil, Buch and Nils Lundkvist to Calgary for Johnny Hockey

Deal 2. Buy-out Staal and Smith

Deal 3. Sign Kassian and Simmonds

Kreider-Ziba-Kakko
Lindgren-Trouba

Johnny G-Laf-Panarin
Reunanen-Fox

Kravy-Strome-Fast
Staal-TDA

Simmonds-Howden-Kassian

If he buys out Staal then which Staal is that playing the 3rd pair?

Also Simmonds is cooked and I feel that's an overpay for Gaudreau (who I love but we don't need him)

 

[Allan92]

I feel like I'm the only one who doesn't understand or want Eichel.

Why so?

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Kassian extended in Edmonton

Simmons is horrible now.

Why are we adding Gaudreau?

 

[kovazub94]

Kassian extended in Edmonton

Simmons is horrible now.

Why are we adding Gaudreau?

Monday cocktails.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If he buys out Staal then which Staal is that playing the 3rd pair?

Also Simmonds is cooked and I feel that's an overpay for Gaudreau (who I love but we don't need him)

Jared

 

[Ghost of jas]

This is what Gorton should do:

Deal 1. Chytil, Buch and Nils Lundkvist to Calgary for Johnny Hockey

Deal 2. Buy-out Staal and Smith

Deal 3. Sign Kassian and Simmonds

Kreider-Ziba-Kakko
Lindgren-Trouba

Johnny G-Laf-Panarin
Reunanen-Fox

Kravy-Strome-Fast
Staal-TDA

Simmonds-Howden-Kassian

You've been warned before about channeling your inner bern.

 

[NYRFANMANI]

This is what Gorton should do:

Deal 1. Chytil, Buch and Nils Lundkvist to Calgary for Johnny Hockey

I would literally jump out of my window. What is this?! We have ZERO use for that guy and he obviously is a p-word come PO-time.

This is a great example of the last thing Grotans should do.

Deal 2. Buy-out Staal and Smith

Staal will happen, Smith is survivable for that last year. We should fit everybody with one buy-out tops.

 

[surlysailor]

With Carolina having their D locked down for the near future. Would Jake Bean be a good target for NYR to try and add a young LD that can push for a spot if Miller is not ready? Carolina has Hamilton Skeji, Slavin, Pesce, Gardnier locked in and Fluery as an RFA so there's probably not much room for Bean. If so what would be fair value? Georgiev +?

 

[RiffyNYR61]

Players aren't perfect.

I'll keep DeAngelo, warts and all, for the next 8 years easily assuming the numbers make sense.

Fox may be better all around, but not as good offensively. Having that element on D is invaluable

Fox is just as good as- and will likely be better than- ADA offensively...

 

[Trxjw]

With Carolina having their D locked down for the near future. Would Jake Bean be a good target for NYR to try and add a young LD that can push for a spot if Miller is not ready? Carolina has Hamilton Skeji, Slavin, Pesce, Gardnier locked in and Fluery as an RFA so there's probably not much room for Bean. If so what would be fair value? Georgiev +?

Bean isn't a bad prospect but he's another guy who is "offense first" and a liability in his own end. I don't think he's the right fit.

The team really needs to add someone who is capable of playing top-4 minutes right now. He doesn't have to be the perfect partner for Trouba but we need someone who can actually be counted on to be a capable NHL player out of the gate. If only just to stabilize things and give Trouba/DeAngelo/TBD (if TDA is traded) someone they don't have to carry for 20 minutes a night. My target is still Travis Dermott in Toronto. He's fantastic in transition, which is, IMO, exactly the kind of player we need on the left-side. Smith, Lindgren, Dermott down the left. See if Dermott can play his way into a partnership with Trouba. Smith moves to the 3rd pairing and Miller or Hajek can step in for him when they're ready.

 

[Fitzy]

Kassian extended in Edmonton

Simmons is horrible now.

Why are we adding Gaudreau?

We're trying a new hockey formation where each line has two forwards on the left and no right winger.

 

[Ola]

We're trying a new hockey formation where each line has two forwards on the left and no right winger.

Haha, but admit, you would be a little excited to see how a unit of JG-Laf-Panarin-Reunanen-Fox would look!?

Kassian resigned? Dang...

 

[cwede]

i am bring this back to attention as i am curious about more opinions from youse guys
so much chatter about fixing LD soon,
even knowing that, with Expansion Draft coming, that would mean related actions/risks
(a) move ADA, or
(b) expose Lindgren/ADA/NewVetLD or
(c) protect only 8 skaters and expose more Forwards
what are your thoughts? thanks

...I don’t think the expansion draft hurts them either. They can go 4F/4D and be fine...

Interesting, may be first time reading suggestion NYR go 4/4 in '21 Exp draft
... assuming roster similar to today.
So at F, you'd protect? Bread, Zib, Chytil, Kreider?
So at F, expose Buch, Howden, Gauth, Lemieux, (Strome), (Fast), Lias, (Gettinger) ?

I am perfectly fine with Chytil and Buchnevich fighting over the last spot this season. I’d honestly rather keep Buchnevich at this point.