Speculation: Roster Building Thread: Part L

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Shesterkybomb

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Dec 30, 2016
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I don't know where the Eichel talk came from but it can go back there because there's no way we give them what he is worth in a trade, plus with his contract there is just no way, its silliness
 
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Thirty One

Safe is safe.
Dec 28, 2003
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This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:


I don't know why a lot of those clips were on there, but I remember the 2-on-1 at 3:59 and blocked shot as the last man back at 6:20 as two times when I felt he didn't understand the premise of defensive play.
 

DanielBrassard

It's all so tiresome
May 6, 2014
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This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:



@GoAwayStaal, @EdJovanovski , @Igor Shestyorkin

Lmao a whole 7 minutes and some of those weren't even on him. Not to mention most people would agree he's not good defensively. But his offensive impact is so tremendous he doesn't have to be to be extremely important
 

Igor Shestyorkin

#26, the sickest of 'em all.
Apr 17, 2015
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Fox must suck too since he's so close to DeAngelo in giveaways/60. You know why Staal has lower giveaways/60? No one wants to give him the f**king puck and they don't scheme around getting him the puck because they know he sucks with it(ever notice how Staal's primary pass is D to D to let DeAngelo handle transition? If you watched a damn game you'd know). Having the puck more will lead to more giveaways.

Panarin, 3.46 giveaways/60. Terrible player!
 

Thirty One

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Dec 28, 2003
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Fox must suck too since he's so close to DeAngelo in giveaways/60. You know why Staal has lower giveaways/60? Because no one wants to give him the f**king puck because they know he sucks with it. Having the puck more will lead to more giveaways.

Panarin, 3.46 giveaways/60. Terrible player!
Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

Staal would have more giveaways compared to DeAngelo/Fox if they tracked it differently. When you give up the puck throwing it off the boards, they don't give you a giveaway. When you have a target and miss him, you do.
 

Igor Shestyorkin

#26, the sickest of 'em all.
Apr 17, 2015
11,090
842
Moscow, RUS
Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

Staal would have more giveaways compared to DeAngelo/Fox if they tracked it differently. When you give up the puck throwing it off the boards, they don't give you a giveaway. When you have a target and miss him, you do.

Exactly. The most flawed, baseless stat he could have used. And I'm not sure where anyone said TDA was good defensively. His role isn't to be a shutdown defenseman, it's to generate offense(which: newsflash, he does). Anyone with common sense would know this. John Carlson is probably going to win the norris trophy and he is straight up atrocious defensively.
 
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and 99 others

la la la la la la la... a little bit alexis
Jul 27, 2011
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Someone once said that the only use that giveaway and takeaway stats have are letting you know whose opinions you can ignore entirely.

but how many followers on twitter did they have and how many tableau viz charts did they put together using data they couldn't substantiate themselves?
 

Thirty One

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Dec 28, 2003
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Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

X9ViEt3.png

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.
 

and 99 others

la la la la la la la... a little bit alexis
Jul 27, 2011
672
690
Quick look at the highest giveaway seasons for the Rangers:

X9ViEt3.png

Legit might be the 3 best individual seasons.

offensive players who have the pucks on their sticks are inevitably going to turn the puck over more than the average player. My point is you don't need a 2nd/3rd pairing D doing that, no matter how much offense they bring to the table
 

Thirty One

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Dec 28, 2003
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offensive players who have the pucks on their sticks are inevitably going to turn the puck over more than the average player. My point is you don't need a 2nd/3rd pairing D doing that, no matter how much offense they bring to the table
I guess I don't understand why you would accept it for offensive forwards but not an offensive defenseman who carries a disproportionate burden of the transition game.
 

and 99 others

la la la la la la la... a little bit alexis
Jul 27, 2011
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Lmao a whole 7 minutes and some of those weren't even on him. Not to mention most people would agree he's not good defensively. But his offensive impact is so tremendous he doesn't have to be to be extremely important

Each clip was chosen because there was something DeAngelo did/didn't do that caused a defensive liability. If you have questions on specific plays I'd be happy to go over defensive zone coverages and positioning with you Daniel.

I'm sure I could make a longer video but:
  1. I'm going off of the 5 minute youtube recaps the NHL puts out
  2. Would you honestly sit through a 45min / hour long video of any player's defensive lapses?
 

bbny

Unregistered User
Apr 12, 2019
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This conversation is getting a little off-topic, can we go back to discussing the pros and cons of signing DeAngelo to a long term contract? I'll start with the cons:



@GoAwayStaal, @EdJovanovski , @Igor Shestyorkin


So whoever made that video went through a whole year of DeAngelo and found roughly 30 clips (not re-watching to count them). Given that several weren't even on him, that's probably generous. For arguments sake, I'll let it slide. That's 30 mistakes found across 71 games and over 1300 minutes of ice time. Not bad!

Do Staal next. See you in 2030.
 

offdacrossbar

misfit fanboy
Jun 25, 2006
15,907
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This excercise in proving ADA is poor defensively is tiresome. He’s got some holes for sure.

let’s agree on a few things

1. Tony isn’t a defensive dman. He’s a guy who plays adequate D But is prone to lapses and moments of indecision. Playing 2 on 1’s poorly is not unique to him. Even Adam fox- everyone’s wet dream, makes mistakes in his own zone. tony also plays with marc Staal as his 5v5 partner. Please adjust thinking with that in mind.

2. His ability to push the puck, make smart crisp passes and carry the mail 5v5 is unique on this defense but for Adam fox. Those 2 together give us the ability to have an extra forward on the blue line. Tony numbers last season were elite relative to his peers.

3. ADA has shown the ability to play the PP1 QB role with confidence and poise. He’s shown the ability to score goals and make sublime passes with consistency. He’s our best PP QB.

some here can not overlook his defensive lapses but when you factor in his ability to create offense from the blue line and his possession numbers, reasonable minds would conclude his value is still very high.

I’m hoping for a 2 yr bridge type deal @ 5 per will keep him around.

nils lunkvist is a good looking prospect but probably 2 years out. I’m not ready to hand him a spot yet.
 

Thirty One

Safe is safe.
Dec 28, 2003
28,981
24,354
So whoever made that video went through a whole year of DeAngelo and found roughly 30 clips (not re-watching to count them). Given that several weren't even on him, that's probably generous. For arguments sake, I'll let it slide. That's 30 mistakes found across 71 games and over 1300 minutes of ice time. Not bad!

Do Staal next. See you in 2030.
Well it wasn't an exhaustive list. This wasn't on there:
 
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