Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXVI: Spring into action (GMJG outta hibernation?)

[bbny]

For all the bitching about Howden, did you see who the coaches had on the ice at the end of the game?

That's why we also bitch about the coaches

 

[RickChartraw]

I don't understand most, well probably all, the advanced stats that get posted here but it's nice that Kakko appears to be doing well there. Still worried about the point production. You'd think by accident he'd have more than 4.

 

[Savant]

We dont need more wingers about to get a payday. As it is we already have Buch we need to worry about, and he's highly likely to be traded because of that.

If they trade Buchnevich they kind of need another winger. Garland will get a raise but it won’t be at the Buchnevich range. Basically you are buying yourself more time for KK, AL & VK to prove themselves at NHL level that way. Kicking the can another year or two but that’s okay with Rangers timeline anyway. Rangers can afford another NHL winger at that 3.5-4m level that Buch is at now. They can’t afford Buch’s raise at 5.5-6.5. But then again I am also going out of my way to trade other salaries to make room for Buch. The reality is Buchnevich isn’t going to bring back value for a center that the Rangers need; so they can do a lot worse than replacing him with a good NHL winger that is a contract behind him.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Your ability to post empty analysis is unmatched

Funny how he left out the part where the one goal against came from two extended shifts back to back of which Howden was at fault for both.

 

[The Crypto Guy]

If they trade Buchnevich they kind of need another winger. Garland will get a raise but it won’t be at the Buchnevich range. Basically you are buying yourself more time for KK, AL & VK to prove themselves at NHL level that way. Kicking the can another year or two but that’s okay with Rangers timeline anyway. Rangers can afford another NHL winger at that 3.5-4m level that Buch is at now. They can’t afford Buch’s raise at 5.5-6.5. But then again I am also going out of my way to trade other salaries to make room for Buch. The reality is Buchnevich isn’t going to bring back value for a center that the Rangers need; so they can do a lot worse than replacing him with a good NHL winger that is a contract behind him.

I don't think we need another winger. We have Kravtsov, and he should be given the 3rd line winger spot for the remainder of the season. Kakko gets promoted to the 2nd line.

 

[Fitzy]

I don't understand most, well probably all, the advanced stats that get posted here but it's nice that Kakko appears to be doing well there. Still worried about the point production. You'd think by accident he'd have more than 4.

As I’ve mentioned before, the bright side to Kakko playing well without scoring much is that if he figures his offense out late, we are gonna save big bucks on his first long contract.

I still think he has 30-30-60 potential

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

For all the bitching about Howden, did you see who the coaches had on the ice at the end of the game?

This is such a tired argument. What the coach does is end all be all. Because he’s the coach, means he made the right decision. Not like he’s a human who can make a mistake.

 

[LokiDog]

Bottom 37 forwards in the NHL in points per game with 20+ games played.

Kakko
Clifford
Larsson
Lizotte
Evans
Grimaldi
Howden
Marleau
Carpenter
Beagle
Kuraly
Roy
Pacquette
Jost
Eakin
Jankowski
Virtanen
Sceviour
Helm
Kolessar
Wagner
Roussel
Scissons
Lewis
Bjork
Carrier
Skinner
Reaves
Crouse
McKewan
Amodio
Lafferty
Highmore
Bellemare
Caamano
Fischer
Nordstrom

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

As I’ve mentioned before, the bright side to Kakko playing well without scoring much is that if he figures his offense out late, we are gonna save big bucks on his first long contract.

I still think he has 30-30-60 potential

I think by all accounts that would be disappointing if that’s Kakko’s ceiling tbh

 

[Savant]

I don't think we need another winger. We have Kravtsov, and he should be given the 3rd line winger spot for the remainder of the season. Kakko gets promoted to the 2nd line.

None of those guys have proven they can handle that responsibility though. Buchnevich is a major contributor. The other guys aren’t (yet). The Rangers lose A LOT if/when they deal Buchnevich. Garland helps bridge that gap at a more affordable price tag. Assuming Kakko or Kravtsov can do that is a recipe for disaster. Garland you can bridge for around what Buchnevich is making now and you don’t really lose anything.

 

[LokiDog]

I think by all accounts that would be disappointing if that’s Kakko’s ceiling tbh

IF that were his ceiling and he didn’t become a two way possession beast that would end up stinging. And not be a guy you don’t include in a package to get a star center. Obviously we’re a long way between here and there but we have to hope we’re still projecting for better, or a very good all around player.

 

[Kaapo di tutti capi]

I'm not trying to be contentious - just trying to understand. Can someone explain to me as if I'm 6 years old why we need to trade Buch? From what I can tell, we have a ton of cap space coming off the books and the only player who looks like he'll be in for a massive pay raise so far is Fox in the 22/23 season - yes, Shesterkin is going to get a raise, but it's not going to be Hank money. What am I not seeing here?

 

[Savant]

I think by all accounts that would be disappointing if that’s Kakko’s ceiling tbh

If you could trade Kakko to LA for Byfield right now. Would you? Would anyone else?

 

[DanielBrassard]

I'm not trying to be contentious - just trying to understand. Can someone explain to me as if I'm 6 years old why we need to trade Buch? From what I can tell, we have a ton of cap space coming off the books and the only player who looks like he'll be in for a massive pay raise so far is Fox in the 22/23 season - yes, Shesterkin is going to get a raise, but it's not going to be Hank money. What am I not seeing here?

We don't have to trade him. We will have so much cap space this upcoming offseason they won't know what to do with it. As far as future long term contracts, at this point nobody outside of Fox and perhaps Zibanejad deserves to be paid handsomely so I don't see why that is a concern at the moment.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I think by all accounts that would be disappointing if that’s Kakko’s ceiling tbh

At this point it wouldn't, has anyone produced so little in their first two years in the league and still become an elite scorer? Never mind 2nd overall picks.

 

[Shesterkybomb]

It will depend on money and term if we keep Buchnevich. What's his number? Is he 5 ish, or is he knockin on 7? That decide his fate.

 

[GAGLine]

I’m sure this is right, but I don’t think it’s that black and white. I’m sure Gorton has the ability to say I want you to give Gauthier a longer leash and get him some more looks. Does he feel the need to do that or does he simply trust DQ to make the decisions is a different story, and obviously a GM heavily meddling in that type of personnel management would turn any coach off and create a bad relationship, but it certainly isn’t something that is beyond Gorts purview if he wanted to say, look the TDL is coming up, I’m trying to gauge what I have in this kid and/or boost his value up to include him in a deal to strengthen our club. I’d like it if you could work him into the lineup more, maybe let him slot where Blackwell’s been opposite Panarin for a couple of games. If he’s hurting you, by all means, reel his minutes in but I’d appreciate it if we could get a better look at him to evaluate.

That's fair. I just can't wrap my head around the idea that Gorton would meddle because he's concerned about what the fans think.

 

[ZiGOODejad]

My biggest issue with this staff if the fact that they haven’t balanced out our PP units with vets and rookies instead of watching all of our vets not get the job done for two minutes every single time.

 

[Fitzy]

I'm not trying to be contentious - just trying to understand. Can someone explain to me as if I'm 6 years old why we need to trade Buch? From what I can tell, we have a ton of cap space coming off the books and the only player who looks like he'll be in for a massive pay raise so far is Fox in the 22/23 season - yes, Shesterkin is going to get a raise, but it's not going to be Hank money. What am I not seeing here?

They don't need to trade him right now, but they may have to trade someone with salary eventually, and I think the argument is that you can probably get more in a deal for him now than when he is 28-29.

Personally, given how Kakko and Lafreniere have been slow starters, I wouldn't be opposed to extending Buchnevich on a pretty long deal. I think NYR will be able to trade Trouba and Kreider in 3 and a half years which will open up a lot of space. Also, there's a near zero chance that Strome doesn't depart, either by trade or UFA eventually.

In 2 years time you can potentially have 3 lines with scoring wingers. Panarin, Kreider, Laf on the left, Buchnevich, Kakko, Kravtsov on the right. That's solid balance. Combine it with the top blueliner prospects we have in the pipeline and, minus center, that's a complete roster.

Who slots in at 3C behind Zibanejad and Chytil is the interesting Q going forward, and honestly I think the appropriate answer might be a Vinny Propal-esque bargain bin veteran signing. There are going to be a lot of players bought out with the flat cap, so opportunities will arise.

In two years if NYR don't make any major trades I could see the following lineup

Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov
Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Lafreniere-?-Buchnevich
4th line

Miller-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Robertson-Lundkvist/Schneider

You've got 8 scoring forwards on that roster, so four per PP unit. Two PP defensemen (Fox, Lundkvst/Trouba) If Robertson and the RD even turn out to be halfway decent, that has a potential to be a top 5 defense in the league.

Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, Zibby, Buch are the veteran leadership.

Then, when Trouba and Kreider's NMC's end in 2024, you move them out to make space for long term extensions for the new core, who would be ready for leadership roles. Potentially Buchnevich gets moved around then as well. Reassess where Zibanejad is into his new contract.

I'm making a lot of assumptions with this roster, but you can see how the moving parts could align for a very long competitive window (3-4 years with Kreider-Trouba-Panarin, the following 6 years with the new core.)

 

[Fitzy]

I think by all accounts that would be disappointing if that’s Kakko’s ceiling tbh

With this roster's depth at wing he may never need to be more than that.

 

[Oscar Lindberg]

With this roster's depth at wing he may never need to be more than that.

Ehhhh short term maybe

Long term he should be the top line RW for the next 5-10 years.

I can understand being a bit disappointed when as a fan you’ve been told for the last two years “this guy is going to be an 80 point league leader” player and he dosen’t come close to that

 

[GAGLine]

They don't need to trade him right now, but they may have to trade someone with salary eventually, and I think the argument is that you can probably get more in a deal for him now than when he is 28-29.

Personally, given how Kakko and Lafreniere have been slow starters, I wouldn't be opposed to extending Buchnevich on a pretty long deal. I think NYR will be able to trade Trouba and Kreider in 3 and a half years which will open up a lot of space. Also, there's a near zero chance that Strome doesn't depart, either by trade or UFA eventually.

In 2 years time you can potentially have 3 lines with scoring wingers. Panarin, Kreider, Laf on the left, Buchnevich, Kakko, Kravtsov on the right. That's solid balance. Combine it with the top blueliner prospects we have in the pipeline and, minus center, that's a complete roster.

Who slots in at 3C behind Zibanejad and Chytil is the interesting Q going forward, and honestly I think the appropriate answer might be a Vinny Propal-esque bargain bin veteran signing. There are going to be a lot of players bought out with the flat cap, so opportunities will arise.

In two years if NYR don't make any major trades I could see the following lineup

Panarin-Chytil-Kravtsov
Kreider-Zibanejad-Kakko
Lafreniere-?-Buchnevich
4th line

Miller-Trouba
Lindgren-Fox
Robertson-Lundkvist

You've got 8 scoring forwards on that roster, so four per PP unit. Two PP defensemen (Fox, Lundkvst/Trouba)

Panarin, Kreider, Trouba, Zibby, Buch are the veteran leadership.

Then, when Trouba and Kreider's NMC's end in 2024, you move them out to make space for long term extensions for the new core, who would be ready for leadership roles. Potentially Buchnevich gets moved around then as well.

I'm making a lot of assumptions with this roster, but you can see how the moving parts could align for a very long competitive window (3-4 years with Kreider-Trouba-Panarin, the following 6 years with the new core.)

Yeah, so much depends on what we do at center. It's a very different story if we hand the reins over to Chytil and draft a center, than if we trade for Eichel or some similarly high priced player.

Maybe Buchnevich ends up going in a trade for a center. Or maybe we build from within and keep him. And who knows what happens with Mika. He's back to his old self it seems, which is great, but he is going to be very expensive to re-sign. Spending 20 mil on 2 centers, with the money we are paying Panarin and Kreider, is going to be prohibitive. If we are keeping Mika, we need to be more frugal about our 2nd line center. That, or we need to move other players. One or both of Kreider and Trouba are likely to be moved before their contracts are up, I think.

The key thing with Buch, as I've said, is the NMC. If he really wants one and won't sign without it, then we likely have to trade him sooner rather than later. If he'll take a limited NTC instead, we can work with that and trade him if and when we need to.

 

[Ail]

Quinn trusts Howden more than he trusts Gauthier, and Howden fills a role that Gauthier does not.

Man where have I heard this before? Sub Howden for Glass and Quinn for AV.

 

[GAGLine]

Man where have I heard this before? Sub Howden for Glass and Quinn for AV.

So it's something that every coach does?

 

[Fitzy]

Yeah, so much depends on what we do at center. It's a very different story if we hand the reins over to Chytil and draft a center, than if we trade for Eichel or some similarly high priced player.

Maybe Buchnevich ends up going in a trade for a center. Or maybe we build from within and keep him. And who knows what happens with Mika. He's back to his old self it seems, which is great, but he is going to be very expensive to re-sign. Spending 20 mil on 2 centers, with the money we are paying Panarin and Kreider, is going to be prohibitive. If we are keeping Mika, we need to be more frugal about our 2nd line center. That, or we need to move other players. One or both of Kreider and Trouba are likely to be moved before their contracts are up, I think.

The key thing with Buch, as I've said, is the NMC. If he really wants one and won't sign without it, then we likely have to trade him sooner rather than later. If he'll take a limited NTC instead, we can work with that and trade him if and when we need to.

That's just it. This team needs flexibility in terms of being able to move some of the contracts when the need arises. You don't want to get stuck in a situation where you have to trade a 24 year old Lafreniere, Lundkvist, or Chytil because you can't afford his bridge contract.