Speculation: Roster Building Thread LXXXII: Stepping up in a Perfect Storm?

[Cmox]

Top 10 of best gifs in all time.

 

[duhmetreE]

Every team does it to a degree. Every single one. The difference is in the transition game. Teams that are better in transition can catch the defense off-guard more often, allowing them to enter the zone with possession more often. You know what leads to a good transition game? Good defense. Stopping teams in the neutral zone and at the blue line. If you have to go 200 feet every time, you're going to have to dump and chase a lot.

There isn't a coach in the league who would be okay with a player continuously trying to carry the puck in against a defense that is standing up at their blue line. That's how turnovers happen, and how the other teams gets their transition game going against you, and gets easy zone entries as a result.

there was points in last game where we had zone entry and still dumped it in and gave up possession. I think one or two directly led to goals against. I know for a fact the 1st goal against was because of a dump in where we lost possession.

We rarely carry the puck out of the zone or through the neutral zone. If we do, it ends with a dump in at the blue line. There's also little to no puck support to actually have it as a viable option.

I'm not asking for the team to carry the puck in when it's 'not there'. I get the simple north-south game will help down the road when games get tight and in the playoffs. It's way too far in that direction though

 

[Profet]

Unrelated... But the board does support 2 factor authentication. Please use it. And preferably not the SMS variant, but still better than nothing.

 

[Tob]

Watching some of these shifts and I'm starting to see why Lias fled, Vitali spiraled amok, Kaapo died on the inside, and Alexis looks dead on the outside. I don't see any attempts by Alexis to create. I don't see Alexis make risky plays. I don't see Alexis making mistakes. Kids learn through trying to use their skills to do great things. Kids learn by making costly mistakes. Quinn is in an absolute we need the wins don't you f*** it up mode of hockey. I can see why all of our forwards are in the purgatory mentally and on paper. They're out there licking stamps getting the puck in and circling around then coming back to the bench and Quinn is patting them on the back saying good shift, no mistakes, good puck decisions. Maybe all 6 or 7 agents need to sit down and have a chat with Gorton too.

 

[MrAlmost]

This is incredibly dumb

That may be fair, but why? Would Buch really return that much more? And like I said, if the deal was expanded could another piece be added from Calgary to help in another area?

 

[Tob]

That may be fair, but why? Would Buch really return that much more? And like I said, if the deal was expanded could another piece be added from Calgary to help in another area?

Buch can return 2 Sam Bennett plus an original edition of Green Eggs and Ham I AM SAM SAM I AM.

 

[MrAlmost]

Buch can return 2 Sam Bennett plus an original edition of Green Eggs and Ham I AM SAM SAM I AM.

Damn. That's a haul.

 

[egelband]

I will say one thing, Fast may not have meant it as a poke at the Rangers but over say the past 5 years I can say that effort has held us back a quite a bit over that time. Its not often we play 3 periods of quality hockey, teams like Boston win because they consistently put the effort in every night. Its really too bad we couldn't have gotten Chara for a year, we desperately need someome of that ilk to set the bar here. A guy like Toews without that contract would be perfect.

Yep. The most persistent frustration I have with the Rangers is there unwillingness to fight through opponents. It’s like they say “if I engage and win, great. But if I engage and lose, it’s a goal the other way”. Which is too risk-averse. It may be statistically true that battling - in a vacuum - is dangerous. But these games are not played in a vacuum and I think I don’t need to explain further. You all - most of you, at least - agree, I bet.
Second, in transition and on the forecheck, in a one on one approach, we nearly always pull up and swing our sticks flaccidly and ineffectively. (Only Mika is sharp enough to make that work). Again, go forward and finish the check. Please. Sometimes!!!! It’s going to usually take an opponent out of the play and occasionally cause some valuable tide-turning havok. Make the opponent make a mistake.

 

[mike14]

I say these in jest as password guesses.

@Machinehead is either "Donny" or recently changed to "Sprinkles"

@Edge "F these idiots"

@RangerBoy see Edge's

@alltherussianbots "PutinRules"

@Uninstaaled "JackFingJohnsonreplacedStaalkillme"

@Tob "burneraccountsrule"

Pretty sure RangerBoy's would be a series of 1s and 0s....

 

[LokiDog]

Dump and chase is fine when you have 1-2 guys on every line who goes in hard after the puck and wins it in the corner and digs it out to a teammate. Bergeron and Marchand, for example, with Pastrnak finding space and getting that won puck from them, then they set up and go to work. The Rangers guys who do that are Blackwell, DiGiuseppe, etc. The problem is they’re AHL players aside from their hustle and willingness to go in and battle. If Kreider wasn’t scoring or making plays but was using his size and speed every single game to be a puck hound, that would work. If Buch and Kakko learned to do the same and go win those battles, support each other to get two men on the puck, etc. with one guy like Panarin or Zib hanging in the open space to receive the puck if won, that would work. We don’t have the horses to play that game as constructed. We have forwards who would benefit from controlled breakouts and well designed zone entries, kind of like what Colorado does when Mack, Burakovsky, Rantanen and Makar are on the ice. We can’t execute it. This is why it isn’t always just about having 6-7 top six quality guys, a solid third line, etc. on paper and why the actual mix of players is important. Just putting 6 top six players on the roster and saying out top six is set doesn’t work the way you want it to. You need six guys who compliment one another and have a good mix of the type of games they play.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Contract termination probably means hes going to Europe, no?

Yes, and he most likely already has a verbal agreement with a team

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I say these in jest as password guesses.

@Machinehead is either "Donny" or recently changed to "Sprinkles"

@Edge "F these idiots"

@RangerBoy see Edge's

@alltherussianbots "PutinRules"

@Uninstaaled "JackFingJohnsonreplacedStaalkillme"

@Tob "burneraccountsrule"

This is hilarious. Keep it going.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Watching some of these shifts and I'm starting to see why Lias fled, Vitali spiraled amok, Kaapo died on the inside, and Alexis looks dead on the outside. I don't see any attempts by Alexis to create. I don't see Alexis make risky plays. I don't see Alexis making mistakes. Kids learn through trying to use their skills to do great things. Kids learn by making costly mistakes. Quinn is in an absolute we need the wins don't you f*** it up mode of hockey. I can see why all of our forwards are in the purgatory mentally and on paper. They're out there licking stamps getting the puck in and circling around then coming back to the bench and Quinn is patting them on the back saying good shift, no mistakes, good puck decisions. Maybe all 6 or 7 agents need to sit down and have a chat with Gorton too.

For real. He isn't preaching puck possession, skilled and cohesive hockey. I don't know what he preaches but it clearly isn't effective.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Dump and chase is fine when you have 1-2 guys on every line who goes in hard after the puck and wins it in the corner and digs it out to a teammate. Bergeron and Marchand, for example, with Pastrnak finding space and getting that won puck from them, then they set up and go to work. The Rangers guys who do that are Blackwell, DiGiuseppe, etc. The problem is they’re AHL players aside from their hustle and willingness to go in and battle. If Kreider wasn’t scoring or making plays but was using his size and speed every single game to be a puck hound, that would work. If Buch and Kakko learned to do the same and go win those battles, support each other to get two men on the puck, etc. with one guy like Panarin or Zib hanging in the open space to receive the puck if won, that would work. We don’t have the horses to play that game as constructed. We have forwards who would benefit from controlled breakouts and well designed zone entries, kind of like what Colorado does when Mack, Burakovsky, Rantanen and Makar are on the ice. We can’t execute it. This is why it isn’t always just about having 6-7 top six quality guys, a solid third line, etc. on paper and why the actual mix of players is important. Just putting 6 top six players on the roster and saying out top six is set doesn’t work the way you want it to. You need six guys who compliment one another and have a good mix of the type of games they play.

Agree with this as well. Although don't necessarily agree with the Kakko battling part. I feel as if Kakko this season has gotten in there, been on pucks and applied good forechecking pressure more than all of the other NYR forwards save for PDG. But yeah, the team is just slow and clunky with the puck, they play slow and skate slow. This team lacks dynamic skating ability big time. Colorado when they're playing well make it look like everyone is flying, everyone is rotating and supporting. NYR entry scheme is a mediocre dump in and if they're in the zone, have two guys stand in front and just fling it back to the point. Never creating between the dots, never hitting the high slot, never working a patient cycle to wear down the D, can't retrieve loose pucks well. Fundamentally lacking and clearly poor cohesiveness all playing into it. Our defense also just can't skate for shit.

The player mix is important, the coach ability is important. This coach clearly doesn't guide the group that well and doesn't promote creative, high danger offense. Their chemistry just looks poor on top of the fundamental holes. The team doesn't even put a player behind the net to receive a pass down low from a guy on the half wall to initiate a cycle. It's just poor hockey. How can an NHL team not cycle properly?

They're just so stagnant in every area of the ice. They don't move pucks quick, they don't support well and they can't skate quick for the most part. It's just a sluggish offense. No one creating from the backend this season at 5v5 aside from K'Andre. Rough stuff.

 

[haohmaru]

I say these in jest as password guesses.

@Machinehead is either "Donny" or recently changed to "Sprinkles"

@Edge "F these idiots"

@RangerBoy see Edge's

@alltherussianbots "PutinRules"

@Uninstaaled "JackFingJohnsonreplacedStaalkillme"

@Tob "burneraccountsrule"

Psshhh. Machinehead's is "RONGOS" for sure. All caps.

 

[wafflepadsave]

They're hardly a woeful loser team. They're using space to determine who useful and who's not. For a change they're not serving as a retirement home for former stars. They're the youngest team for a reason. They'll get their players back and win a few games. For now they can take a few tough games.

I’m just afraid they’ll get beat these next two games. Anymore injuries to the vets means more Hartford.

 

[NewLife]

What exactly do you expect JD and JG to do?

Zamboni hauling the coach.

 

[rangers1314]

Really looking forward to hearing how loudly 2,000 fans can boo tonight.

 

[NewLife]

I was sitting on the can doing my thing and I remembered the fact that we've actually been raving about K'andre for years, haven't we? Like, I swear we were extremely high on him months after he was drafted and continued to do so. I even remember seeing a lot of people on the main boards who aren't Rangers fans say Miller is not going to be traded for anything short of a too good to turn down offer. Like, why are we talking about Miller as if he struggled in college and failed to develop? Miller is literally the most improved player prior to his arrival to the big club we've seen in this rebuild, ahead of even Nils.

My axe grinding against posts saying Quinn deserves lots of credit for Miller is based on the fact that he was already super impressive and looked great according to JD during the play-in round practices. It is as disingenuous to credit Quinn with the success of Miller without recognizing that he was excellent and trending upward as it is to take credit away from Quinn for his part in turning Lindgren into a solid top 4 player.

I'm pretty sure the hype got real days after the draft and his early success in college only fueled it up.

 

[eco's bones]

Dump and chase is fine when you have 1-2 guys on every line who goes in hard after the puck and wins it in the corner and digs it out to a teammate. Bergeron and Marchand, for example, with Pastrnak finding space and getting that won puck from them, then they set up and go to work. The Rangers guys who do that are Blackwell, DiGiuseppe, etc. The problem is they’re AHL players aside from their hustle and willingness to go in and battle. If Kreider wasn’t scoring or making plays but was using his size and speed every single game to be a puck hound, that would work. If Buch and Kakko learned to do the same and go win those battles, support each other to get two men on the puck, etc. with one guy like Panarin or Zib hanging in the open space to receive the puck if won, that would work. We don’t have the horses to play that game as constructed. We have forwards who would benefit from controlled breakouts and well designed zone entries, kind of like what Colorado does when Mack, Burakovsky, Rantanen and Makar are on the ice. We can’t execute it. This is why it isn’t always just about having 6-7 top six quality guys, a solid third line, etc. on paper and why the actual mix of players is important. Just putting 6 top six players on the roster and saying out top six is set doesn’t work the way you want it to. You need six guys who compliment one another and have a good mix of the type of games they play.

More or less agree with this. I would bring up Lemieux but he's not always consistent on the dump and chase either. Gauthier could be an asset as well but again he doesn't use his size all that effectively on the forecheck. Rooney isn't bad though. Some of this is the type of forwards we have. For the most part they're not the grinder types and for some you either have that mentality or you don't. It's not that easily taught. It's one of the reasons why a player like Bennett is so attractive to a lot of us.

 

[True Blue]

He's not playing the point or center. Strome actually helps balance out the second unit. Who's centering the second unit right now? Rooney?
Why do we have two centers on the first unit? I am sure having Lafreniere sub in for Strome or Blackwell is not gonna screw up his ability to play the position. what about the 1-3-1 with Mika playing the middle and Lafreniere along the left wall? How is that screwing up his positioning?

I have no problem giving him a shot on PP1. I just believe that 1) in the overall, so far Blackwell has not been the issue and 2) To put Lafreniere into a position to succeed, he needs to be on LW. That spot is taken in the long term.

 

[True Blue]

Ok, now we're arguing semantics.

Yes, guidance = coaching. If was generalized to fit what I wrote... 'How does any player OR PERSON develop?'

Inetellectual dishonesty to say people/players developed/honed their elite skills in college? OK It's intellectually dishonest to believe KAM did it during quarantine and a shortened camp... but you do you. Ok, so KAM was never an elite talent? that's news to me. He was raw at defense, I guess 2 years at college helped more than HF expected. As in, with 2 years of college/international player, he's now developed enough to use his elite skills and excel at defense. No? it was a Covid Mircale Camp instead?

if its not posted here, its not true? Fox's elite aspect is his brain. He always had that... Like I've already said, expectations of HF does not always equal reality.

Saying Fox has always had IQ and saying that at the time of the trade he was thought of as borderline elite are two different things.

Ok. so if guidance equals coaching and Miller has been developing under guidance AND Wisconsin was a dumpster fire last year, then looks like his steps forward in development came after he arrived to the Rangers.

 

[Tob]

Great work everyone! We've figured out an official explanation as to why we want Quinn to be replaced and now we don't have to get yelled at for being annoying anymore. Low risk low reward coaching program for our young players that stifles their creativity and passion (KK,LA,VK, AL) and forcing players who aren't cut out to play a chip dump and chase system which neuters any effectiveness they may have (BL, JG, BH). Hence why Kakko and Fil look great now that negotiated off of that low risk low reward program but the chip and chase is still neutering offence and production for lines that can't do that effectively to mount pressure even if these players are great individually. Lastly why PDG, KR, and CB have all been early season MVPs in this chip and chase system able to pull above their weight.

 

[True Blue]

Positions go almost completely out the window on PPs. It’s basically a completely different game within the game. Instead of LW-C-RW-LD-RD you have some combination of Point Man, Net Front, Half Boards, and Bumper. Even strength position should only matter during faceoffs (maybe) and at the end of PPs when you’re transitioning back to even strength.

Lafreniere should be on the PP for this team. If he is as advertised, he is the second most skilled player on the team behind Panarin. Most stud rookies get sheltered minutes - PP time, offensive zone starts, etc. This is the typical way to nurture budding talents while they round out their strength and two way play.

Not really. You really do not see Ovechkin playing on the right side, do you? So yes, positions do matter. How much you want to attribute to that seems to be arbitrary.

Where Lafreniere should or should not be seems to be arbitrary as well. According the fans on HF, he should be is spot X. According to management and the front office of the Rangers, he should be in spot Y. Believing that his or Kakko's development is simply tyrannical decisions of Quinn without having a gameplay that both Gorton and JD bought into is silly.

 

[True Blue]

Yes. A slam dunk open net. I am extremely confident a lefty like, Laf would have scored.. But Quinny and Oliver know best. Keeping 4RHS on the PP is a must. Putting a journey-man as the bumper made more sense than Lafreniere.

You sound bitter. Dont be.

I am not at all bitter. I just do not deal with nothing but pure conjecture.