Confirmed with Link: Roman Josi signs extension - 8 years / $9.059 M per year

[predfan24]

Maybe Josi will develop an allergic skin reaction to his shoulder pads say around 2026/2027.

 

[OldFan]

Yes, the main goal should be to prolong being contenders for as long as you can. Luckily Poile is right more often than not and is one of the better long term thinkers in the league.

This time Poile was thinking beyond his probable tenure.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Yes, the main goal should be to prolong being contenders for as long as you can. Luckily Poile is right more often than not and is one of the better long term thinkers in the league.

I can't disagree more with this. Sports is cyclical. If you always remain competitive, you are never going to win big.

Chicago.
LA.
Boston.
Detroit.
New Jersey.
New York.
Pittsburgh.
Colorado

These are all cautionary tales of what happens when you compete for a long time and how some of these had a rebirth after sucking for years.

If we don't win in a couple of years with the current core, we don't have the right core. Blow it up. Rebuild. Stock top pics and start the youth movement.

That's sports.

 

[LCPreds]

Those are the good versions. What about Toronto and Edmonton? How long should one have to endure the 'rebuild' portion of the cycle?

Frankly I agree with you when it comes to the means by which to acquire top end talent. The problem is it's also possible to be terrible for an extreme amount of time if your front office is terrible. You may not know you have a front office ill equipped to rebuild until you're years into it.

 

[Soundgarden]

I can't disagree more with this. Sports is cyclical. If you always remain competitive, you are never going to win big.

Chicago.
LA.
Boston.
Detroit.
New Jersey.
New York.
Pittsburgh.
Colorado

These are all cautionary tales of what happens when you compete for a long time and how some of these had a rebirth after sucking for years.

If we don't win in a couple of years with the current core, we don't have the right core. Blow it up. Rebuild. Stock top pics and start the youth movement.

That's sports.

I think you can continue to be a contender while retooling or replacing aging talent with youth. It's rare and it doesn't last forever, but some teams have made it work for a quite while.

Take a look at Boston and Detroit on your list.
Detroit made the playoffs for 25 straight years, and even though it looked pretty bad towards the end of that, they went through several cycles while still contending thanks to great drafting, hoarding the best UFAs before the cap era and some shrewd moves.

Boston, they missed the playoffs twice since '08, but in the years they missed they made some smart move and ended up with 5 firsts in 2 years while keeping their core. They drafted and developed prospects well enough to move out some unnecessary pieces to get younger.

That's what I mean when I say we should be contenders for as long as we can, that doesn't mean trade off our best prospects or 1sts for a shot we don't have like Detroit did in the final years of their streak. We just have to know when the right time to move our current core guys.
Ellis looked awful this year, now he's leading the team in scoring. We trade Bonino and Ellis instead of Subban and suddenly we lost our leading scorer and point getter while keeping an asset who's stock is falling.

 

[Legionnaire11]

I don't think you can put a hard and fast rule on blow it up and rebuild vs retool. It just depends on the team, who and what their veterans are, what their immediate and long-term contract situation looks like, and who they have in the prospect pool.

I think with the Predators, we don't really have any albatross contracts handcuffing Poile, so there's trade flexibility. And we have one of or the strongest prospect pools that the organization has ever had. So when this core starts phasing out in 2-3 years we have a lot of good prospects on their way.

So I think in the Preds case, blowing it and trying to hit on a lottery pick is a bad bet. Instead we should face the potential of a couple of down seasons (by recent Preds standards) and integrate the kids. We'll still have the likes of Duchene and Josi for sure, maybe a few others, should be a good mix of new and old, just right for another strong run at the big prize.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

I think you can continue to be a contender while retooling or replacing aging talent with youth. It's rare and it doesn't last forever, but some teams have made it work for a quite while.

Take a look at Boston and Detroit on your list.
Detroit made the playoffs for 25 straight years, and even though it looked pretty bad towards the end of that, they went through several cycles while still contending thanks to great drafting, hoarding the best UFAs before the cap era and some shrewd moves.

Boston, they missed the playoffs twice since '08, but in the years they missed they made some smart move and ended up with 5 firsts in 2 years while keeping their core. They drafted and developed prospects well enough to move out some unnecessary pieces to get younger.

That's what I mean when I say we should be contenders for as long as we can, that doesn't mean trade off our best prospects or 1sts for a shot we don't have like Detroit did in the final years of their streak. We just have to know when the right time to move our current core guys.
Ellis looked awful this year, now he's leading the team in scoring. We trade Bonino and Ellis instead of Subban and suddenly we lost our leading scorer and point getter while keeping an asset who's stock is falling.

I see what you are getting at, but Detroit is currently footing that 25 year bill. As you pointed out, Detroit was able to do a lot of that before the cap era. It's different now. The Chicago's and LA's of the league are a lot closer to a comparable than the Wings.

Boston is going to be footing their's soon enough.

If you want to look at team's on the upswing of their cycle, Carolina and Toronto come to mind.

The way to a win a cup, as far as I can tell, over the last 8 years boils down to 4 things:

3-4 Super stars
1 goalie who can make big stops at critical times
2-3 quality players
Competent bums

I'm just not sure outside of Josi, Nashville has number 1 and 2 on that list checked off.

Again, I'm not saying pull the plug and tank today. I'm saying that in 3 years if the current core doesn't get it done, it's better to trade the assets before they don't have value (like the Rangers have done) then let them go stale and are untradeable.

I also just need to say, outside of Dante, what Preds prospect has recently made the NHL? I honestly can't name one. Saros, Sissons etc have been playing up here for a while. Our prospect pool is not as deep or talented as we think.

 

[101st_fan]

I see what you are getting at, but Detroit is currently footing that 25 year bill. As you pointed out, Detroit was able to do a lot of that before the cap era. It's different now. The Chicago's and LA's of the league are a lot closer to a comparable than the Wings.

Boston is going to be footing their's soon enough.

If you want to look at team's on the upswing of their cycle, Carolina and Toronto come to mind.

The way to a win a cup, as far as I can tell, over the last 8 years boils down to 4 things:

3-4 Super stars
1 goalie who can make big stops at critical times
2-3 quality players
Competent bums

I'm just not sure outside of Josi, Nashville has number 1 and 2 on that list checked off.

Again, I'm not saying pull the plug and tank today. I'm saying that in 3 years if the current core doesn't get it done, it's better to trade the assets before they don't have value (like the Rangers have done) then let them go stale and are untradeable.

I also just need to say, outside of Dante, what Preds prospect has recently made the NHL? I honestly can't name one. Saros, Sissons etc have been playing up here for a while. Our prospect pool is not as deep or talented as we think.

Detroit held up for a decade of the cap era. Edmonton has enjoyed very early draft picks for the better part of a decade and continues to struggle. Chicago built a Cup winning team using four years of early picks then put themselves into years of cap hell that forced players to other teams. The Rangers still haven't proved anything ... neither have the Leafs with three top five picks in the span of five years (plus an eighth overall in Nylander).

 

[Scoresberg]

I can't disagree more with this. Sports is cyclical. If you always remain competitive, you are never going to win big.

Chicago.
LA.
Boston.
Detroit.
New Jersey.
New York.
Pittsburgh.
Colorado

These are all cautionary tales of what happens when you compete for a long time and how some of these had a rebirth after sucking for years.

If we don't win in a couple of years with the current core, we don't have the right core. Blow it up. Rebuild. Stock top pics and start the youth movement.

That's sports.

St. Louis?

 

[Scoresberg]

Also, we drafted well last summer and have a boatload of picks the upcoming summer while already passing the torch to younger guys with Smith or Bonino at least on their way out. I really liked what Boston did when they were almost counted out, they re-tooled in a couple of years while still keeping the core intact and came so close to winning it all. San Jose did the same, and have been up there all the time but now the salary cap has eaten away their depth and their goaltender situation is terrible.

I think Carolina's a good example of building it all up through the draft and trades but there are far more examples where the losing situations have followed each other leading to a toxic organization culture. Edmonton, Buffalo (yes, they are playing well not but lets' see), Arizona, New Jersey to some degree, they should be coming along right about now, Rangers, not sure where they're headed.

 

[GoldOnGold]

I see what you are getting at, but Detroit is currently footing that 25 year bill. As you pointed out, Detroit was able to do a lot of that before the cap era. It's different now. The Chicago's and LA's of the league are a lot closer to a comparable than the Wings.

Boston is going to be footing their's soon enough.

If you want to look at team's on the upswing of their cycle, Carolina and Toronto come to mind.

The way to a win a cup, as far as I can tell, over the last 8 years boils down to 4 things:

3-4 Super stars
1 goalie who can make big stops at critical times
2-3 quality players
Competent bums

I'm just not sure outside of Josi, Nashville has number 1 and 2 on that list checked off.

Again, I'm not saying pull the plug and tank today. I'm saying that in 3 years if the current core doesn't get it done, it's better to trade the assets before they don't have value (like the Rangers have done) then let them go stale and are untradeable.

I also just need to say, outside of Dante, what Preds prospect has recently made the NHL? I honestly can't name one. Saros, Sissons etc have been playing up here for a while. Our prospect pool is not as deep or talented as we think.

Girard?

 

[Roman Yoshi]

St. Louis?

St. Louis was terrible for years... basically from the early 2000s until 2015 they were either bottom feeders or playoff fodder.

They had 10 first round picks from 2006 to 2014, most of which are still with the team and most came when they didn't make the playoffs.

Look, I'm not saying blow it up now, but I find it hard not to objectively look at it and say it is better to get ahead of the diminishing returns than behind it.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

St. Louis was terrible for years... basically from the early 2000s until 2015 they were either bottom feeders or playoff fodder.

They had 10 first round picks from 2006 to 2014, most of which are still with the team and most came when they didn't make the playoffs.

Look, I'm not saying blow it up now, but I find it hard not to objectively look at it and say it is better to get ahead of the diminishing returns than behind it.

This is patently untrue.

Year- Points- Place in division

00 - 114 - 1
01 - 103 - 2
02 - 98 - 2
03 - 99 - 2
04 - 91 - 2
06 - 57 - 5
07 - 81 - 3
08 - 79 - 5
09 - 92 - 3
10 - 97 - 4
11 - 87 - 4
12 - 109 - 1
13 - 60 - 2 (lockout)
14 - 111 - 2
15 - 109 - 1
16 - 107 - 2
17 - 99 - 2
18 - 94 - 5
19 - 99 - 3

There is a low point in the last '00s but by no means were they horrible for several years to earn very high draft picks unless they had made smart trades for them from other teams that obviously made bad trades on their side.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I don't get the gripe about our prospects. We've traded away a lot of our picks and prospects, but if you look at our drafts we've actually done quite well with our early draft picks all things considered.

2019 draft- Too soon to tell, but good early returns
2018 draft- 1st round pick traded for Hartman, 2nd round pick included in Turris trade, 3rd round pick traded for a pick in 2019 that was then traded for a pick in 2020.
2017 draft- Tolvanen is still a very solid prospect. Mismash could be a depth player. Farrance could be depth defender.
2016 draft- Fabbro and Girard are both solid NHLers already. Pitlick looks like he could be NHL ready in the near future.
2015 draft- Traded in Franson deal. Trenin seems to be developing into a bottom 6 player. Novak probably won't make NHL
2014 draft- Fiala while underwhelming still contributed for us. Kamenev moved for Turris. Dougherty and Kirkland didn't make it. Snagged Arvidsson in the fourth round.
2013 draft- Seth Jones is Norris caliber just not for us. 2nd round included in Andrei Kostitsyn trade. Ismael Diaby didn't make it. Saros in the fourth round.

That gives us a good portion of our current lineup either drafted or acquired using players from these drafts with Johansen, Arvidsson, Turris, Fabbro, Granlund, and Saros. Also, our top 3 offensive prospects in the AHL with Tolvanen, Pitlick, and Trenin. Three trade deadline deals (albeit all unsuccesful) in there as well. Only 5 players so far that didn't make it to the NHL or weren't traded.

 

[triggrman]

I don't get the gripe about our prospects. We've traded away a lot of our picks and prospects, but if you look at our drafts we've actually done quite well with our early draft picks all things considered.

2019 draft- Too soon to tell, but good early returns
2018 draft- 1st round pick traded for Hartman, 2nd round pick included in Turris trade, 3rd round pick traded for a pick in 2019 that was then traded for a pick in 2020.
2017 draft- Tolvanen is still a very solid prospect. Mismash could be a depth player. Farrance looks to be a miss
2016 draft- Fabbro and Girard are both solid NHLers already. Pitlick looks like he could be NHL ready in the near future.
2015 draft- Traded in Franson deal. Trenin seems to be developing into a bottom 6 player. Novak probably won't make NHL
2014 draft- Fiala while underwhelming still contributed for us. Kamenev moved for Turris. Dougherty and Kirkland didn't make it. Snagged Arvidsson in the fourth round.
2013 draft- Seth Jones is Norris caliber just not for us. 2nd round included in Andrei Kostitsyn trade. Ismael Diaby didn't make it. Saros in the fourth round.

That gives us a good portion of our current lineup either drafted or acquired using players from these drafts with Johansen, Arvidsson, Turris, Fabbro, Granlund, and Saros. Also, our top 3 offensive prospects in the AHL with Tolvanen, Pitlick, and Trenin. Three trade deadline deals (albeit all unsuccesful) in there as well. Only 5 players so far that didn't make it to the NHL or weren't traded.

Solid arguement but I think the problem will be if none of Tolvanen, Trenin, Pitlick and Mishmash are all misses, which looks like it's more likely than all of them making it. I bet at most 2 of those are borderline NHL players in 3 years.

 

[Legionnaire11]

2017 draft- Farrance looks to be a miss

In what way?

18-19 he was second in defense scoring for BU behind Dante Fabbro with 20 points in 37 games
19-20 one of the best looking prospects at camp
19-20 #1 defenseman for BU and leading the blueline in scoring with 7 points in 5 games, ahead of Fabbro's pace from last season.

He's got okay size and good wheels. I don't see how he doesn't become a 5-7 defenseman for the Preds.

 

[Predsanddead24]

In what way?

18-19 he was second in defense scoring for BU behind Dante Fabbro with 20 points in 37 games
19-20 one of the best looking prospects at camp
19-20 #1 defenseman for BU and leading the blueline in scoring with 7 points in 5 games, ahead of Fabbro's pace from last season.

He's got okay size and good wheels. I don't see how he doesn't become a 5-7 defenseman for the Preds.

Honestly, I don't have strong opinions on Farrance so either way. I'll change him to a could be depth defender.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Honestly, I don't have strong opinions on Farrance so either way. I'll change him to a could be depth defender.

That's fair and understandable, it's easy to overlook non-1st round underclassmen

 

[Soundgarden]

I see what you are getting at, but Detroit is currently footing that 25 year bill. As you pointed out, Detroit was able to do a lot of that before the cap era. It's different now. The Chicago's and LA's of the league are a lot closer to a comparable than the Wings.

Boston is going to be footing their's soon enough.

If you want to look at team's on the upswing of their cycle, Carolina and Toronto come to mind.

The way to a win a cup, as far as I can tell, over the last 8 years boils down to 4 things:

3-4 Super stars
1 goalie who can make big stops at critical times
2-3 quality players
Competent bums

I'm just not sure outside of Josi, Nashville has number 1 and 2 on that list checked off.

Again, I'm not saying pull the plug and tank today. I'm saying that in 3 years if the current core doesn't get it done, it's better to trade the assets before they don't have value (like the Rangers have done) then let them go stale and are untradeable.

I also just need to say, outside of Dante, what Preds prospect has recently made the NHL? I honestly can't name one. Saros, Sissons etc have been playing up here for a while. Our prospect pool is not as deep or talented as we think.

Yes, Detroit is currently feeling pain, but 20+ years of contention is what every single sports franchise should aspire to have no matter the sport.

Are you sure about Boston? Yes, Krejci and Bergeron are 30+ but they're still playing well, I don't see why they can't play well past 35. Pasternak is 23, McAvoy 21, Heinen 24, Deprusk 23. The only defensemen over 30 are Kampfer and Chara. Rask is 32, but as we've seen with Rinne that doesn't mean he can't be elite, it's funny they've got almost identical records.

Boston will have cap issues next year but aside from a 4th they have all their picks in the next three years and they've got some good prospects in place.

I'm gonna disagree on you with that recipe for winning a cup. There's no team with 3-4 superstar players, that's a McDavid or Crosby. St. Louis has Taresenko, he was comparable to Forsberg or Arvidsson last year. O'Reilly, yes he's better, but Johansen had a near identical post-season the year we went to the finals. Washington? They have Ovechkin as a superstar, but most of their other stars are just that, stars.

Another team that's retooled quickly while still being able to contend, is us. We sucked twice, picked up Ellis and Jones and went back on improving. I don't see why we can't do that again. Yes, some of our prospects aren't going to pan out, but just keeping our 1sts and 2nds for a couple years can go a long way.

 

[ViktorBaeArvidsson]

If we can win a Cup this year or next year I couldn’t care less about the contract situation.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

We will just have to agree to disagree.

Nine inch, they had the following picks from 2006-2014 which again, is the timeline I pointed out as the issue. Yes, they made some key trades but they also unloaded talented players.

1
4
13
14
16
17 (twice)
18
21
24
25 (twice)
26

I'm just saying that the Preds have not been drafting that many (or high) picks in a long time.

Again, agree to disagree. Everyone is entitled to their opinions. I think we've veered horribly off course for this thread tho