Tennis: Roland Garros 2018

[kihei]

6-3--Nadal has to work hard, but Thiem isn't causing him any worries on any front, so the results are predictable.

 

[Tuggy]

Thiem still fighting.

 

[kihei]

Increasingly Rafa pounds on Thiem's backhand side.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Rafa gets the break after blowing a number of chances in the third.

 

[Tuggy]

Nadal getting the hand/wrist looked at.

 

[rangerssharks414]

Nadal gets #11. He’s ridiculous.

 

[Jussi]

Nadal GOAT.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Disappointed that he didn't lie on the floor as he usually does when he wins a major.

11 titles. You'll never see this dominance at one event again. So who else besides him and Sampras, won majors in their teens and 30s?

 

[Asheville]

Crazy part is Thiem is very, very good and arguably the best player of the coming generation......and still gets smushed like a bug.

17 Grand Slams

Wow

 

[Cole Caulifield]

Holy crap Ken Rosewall was pretty harsh on Thiem there...

 

[895]

I don't know if this is controversial or popular but the big 4 doesn't exist.

You have Federer and Nadal
Then Djokovic
Then several tiers down you have Murray and Wawrinka.

I feel like big four was always a thing British media did to elevate Murray

 

[Panteras]

I don't know if this is controversial or popular but the big 4 doesn't exist.

You have Federer and Nadal
Then Djokovic
Then several tiers down you have Murray and Wawrinka.

I feel like big four was always a thing British media did to elevate Murray

meh, I think it was probably more in par with how in the EPL there was the top 4 always the same (now more like top 6)...but ultimately it's been won pretty much all the time by United/Chelsea..only now City

 

[kihei]

4-3-2: That's a match score that tells you a whole little story right there itself.

11 French Open titles is one of the most insane numbers in the history of sport.

 

[Beau Knows]

Last 6 slams won by Rafa and Roger, crazy.

Nadal now has Federer back in his sights. 3 slams back now, I could see a couple more French Opens at least, it's quite possible that he can reach 20.

 

[Asheville]

Whether or not Nadal ever catches Federer in GS titles is irrelevant. Both of their legacies are as the crystal clear 2 greatest tennis players ever. No muddled Gretzky/Orr/Howe/Lemieux situation here. When Pistol Pete retired, I think most thought his 14 would at least hold up for a while. Not only has the American been leaped, but by a hefty margin. The fact that Nadal is closer to Federer than Djokovic is to Nadal is just......pffft!

 

[MrFunnyWobbl]

Crazy part is Thiem is very, very good and arguably the best player of the coming generation......and still gets smushed like a bug.

17 Grand Slams

Wow

Better than that A Zaverav?

Legit asking

 

[McDeepika]

32 years old and nobody is even close to him on clay. That is absurd.

How many more do you guys seriously think he can win? I think he might be able to squeeze out 2-3 more if he stays healthy.

 

[kihei]

Better than that A Zaverav?

Legit asking

I wouldn't say so. Zverev is two and a half years younger with lots of ceiling left and with three "1000" level titles to his credit already. However, one could argue on the record that Thiem is the superior clay court player.

 

[Asheville]

I wouldn't say so. Zverev is two and a half years younger with lots of ceiling left and with three "1000" level titles to his credit already. However, one could argue on the record that Thiem is the superior clay court player.

I'm not a fan of Zverev's build and how that fares against "stockier" athletes like Nadal, Federer or even Del Potro. Plus, Zverev still hasn't broken through to a GS final, which Thiem has now done. Frankly, as good as Thiem, Zverev, Shapovalov and Kyrgios are, if they are the best the next generation has to offer, tennis is in for an extensive dark age when Rog and Rafa hang up their twigs (I was going to say the same for Andy and Djoker, but I can't see either or them improving at this point). Having said all of that, Thiem and Zverev seem like good dudes, and Thiem is definitely my pick to be the long-term GS threat as he has the temperament, aggression and spin to be affective on all surfaces, despite the antiquated one-handed backhand (which really did him in Sunday).

 

[Hadoop]

I'm not a fan of Zverev's build and how that fares against "stockier" athletes like Nadal, Federer or even Del Potro. Plus, Zverev still hasn't broken through to a GS final, which Thiem has now done. Frankly, as good as Thiem, Zverev, Shapovalov and Kyrgios are, if they are the best the next generation has to offer, tennis is in for an extensive dark age when Rog and Rafa hang up their twigs (I was going to say the same for Andy and Djoker, but I can't see either or them improving at this point). Having said all of that, Thiem and Zverev seem like good dudes, and Thiem is definitely my pick to be the long-term GS threat as he has the temperament, aggression and spin to be affective on all surfaces, despite the antiquated one-handed backhand (which really did him in Sunday).

I dunno. Zverev is much better than Thiem was at the same age (i.e 21) and to me looks like a bigger GS threat long-term. I'd even say I expect Zverev to win multiple slams by the time he is 25 compared to zero slams before the age of 25 for Thiem.

 

[Asheville]

I dunno. Zverev is much better than Thiem was at the same age (i.e 21) and to me looks like a bigger GS threat long-term. I'd even say I expect Zverev to win multiple slams by the time he is 25 compared to zero slams before the age of 25 for Thiem.

Care to qualify your opinion?

Zverev vs. Federer & Nadal: 2-8 (both wins over Federer)
Thiem vs Federer and Nadal: 5-8 (winning record vs. Federer)

More titles than Zverev (10 vs 8)
Thiem has reached the semis or better at a GS 3 times
Zverev has passed a GS quarters, and only reach that stage once

I think Zverev is a great young talent and I definitely prefer his two-handed backhanded to any one-handed backhand, but Thiem poses more problems across all surfaces.

 

[kihei]

Care to qualify your opinion?

Zverev vs. Federer & Nadal: 2-8 (both wins over Federer)
Thiem vs Federer and Nadal: 5-8 (winning record vs. Federer)

More titles than Zverev (10 vs 8)
Thiem has reached the semis or better at a GS 3 times
Zverev has passed a GS quarters, and only reach that stage once

I think Zverev is a great young talent and I definitely prefer his two-handed backhanded to any one-handed backhand, but Thiem poses more problems across all surfaces.

Except Thiem doesn't.

Here are the relevant ATP career statistics in terms of winning percentages on all surfaces:

Clay:
Thiem: 752%
Zverev: 707%

Grass:
Thiem: 542%
Zverev: 690%

Hard:
Thiem: 542%
Zverev: 613%

Thiem's record against Top Ten players is 310%; Zverev's record is 429%
Thiem's record in finals is 527%; Zverev's record is 576%

Also your titles comparison neglects the fact that Thiem has had two and a half years to acquire more titles than his younger opponent. Plus, of course, Zverev has already acquired three "1000" level championships to zero for Thiem.

 

[Asheville]

Except Thiem doesn't.

Here are the relevant ATP career statistics in terms of winning percentages on all surfaces:

Clay:
Thiem: 752%
Zverev: 707%

Grass:
Thiem: 542%
Zverev: 690%

Hard:
Thiem: 542%
Zverev: 613%

Thiem's record against Top Ten players is 310%; Zverev's record is 429%
Thiem's record in finals is 527%; Zverev's record is 576%

Also your titles comparison neglects the fact that Thiem has had two and a half years to acquire more titles than his younger opponent. Plus, of course, Zverev has already acquired three "1000" level championships to zero for Thiem.

Grand Slam performances? You know, the only ones that matter. Record vs. Federer and Nadal? You know, the two blockades to success at ANY Grand Slam.

Win percentage is kind of silly to point to since, as you pointed out, Zverev is younger and is working with the smaller and thus more favorable sample size.

Masters Series shields are novel. Great for points/prize money, but for a guy like Zverev who has yet to do jack at a GS, they are indicators of nothing. Those are the scraps left for the rest of the tour now that the big boys routinely skip them.

And record against Top 10 means absolutely nothing. Outside of the Top-3/4, it's a revolving door that, again, indicates nothing if you can't get past the quarters at a GS. And, BTW, not all wins against Top-10 players are created equal, which is why I focus on Thiem/Zverev's records against Nadal/Federer.

 

[Hadoop]

Zverev is 3 1/2 years younger than Thiem actually.

For a proper Apples to Apples comparison consider that when Thiem was the age that Zverev is right now (i.e. 21 years and 1 months) he was ranked outside of the top 40 and had been past the second round of a major once.

 

[Asheville]

Zverev is 3 1/2 years younger than Thiem actually.

For a proper Apples to Apples comparison consider that when Thiem was the age that Zverev is right now (i.e. 21 years and 1 months) he was ranked outside of the top 40 and had been past the second round of a major once.

All facts, you're absolutely right....but I still see enough in Thiem's tools and tactics to believe he will be a more successful pro.

5-8 vs the two towers carries a lot with me. Strikes me as Federer-lite.