ROH/NJPW Supershow at MSG 4/6

scrubadam

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Apr 10, 2016
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Zack needs some muscle. At least get to Gargano level so I can actually buy that your strikes hurt or that you can keep a submission on someone. For now he looks like a kid out there and its hard to believe that Tanashi can't just throw him across the ring any time he attempts a submission.

If this show had the Elite on it it would of been 10 times better. Without the AEW talent ROH is really thin and this showed. NJPW essentially carried this.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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Zack needs some muscle. At least get to Gargano level so I can actually buy that your strikes hurt or that you can keep a submission on someone. For now he looks like a kid out there and its hard to believe that Tanashi can't just throw him across the ring any time he attempts a submission.

If this show had the Elite on it it would of been 10 times better. Without the AEW talent ROH is really thin and this showed. NJPW essentially carried this.
The body shaming bullshit some people engage in REALLY pisses me off greatly. ZSJ is an awesome wrestler, I don't want him (or any other wrestler) to jam a needle up his ass so he can get jacked up and drop dead in his mid 40's. And the logic is f***ing stupid: look at MMA fighters, particularly in the smaller weight classes. Many of those guys aren't jacked off but I bet if they tagged anyone here they'd be knocked right on their ass.
 

Alex Jones

BIG BOWL 'A CHILI!!
Jun 8, 2009
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Yeah... not pleased with the show in general (ROH I guess). Maybe last night was so good that nothing ever will be good and I have to watch Take Over in loop forever.

It's definitely a bad sign when a traditionally workrate promotion like ROH decides that they want to bring in the worlds most "Sports Entertainment" act like Enzo and Cass. Those two are going to make idiots out of themselves and the ROH brand. That's what they do.
 

JackSlater

Registered User
Apr 27, 2010
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The body shaming bull**** some people engage in REALLY pisses me off greatly. ZSJ is an awesome wrestler, I don't want him (or any other wrestler) to jam a needle up his ass so he can get jacked up and drop dead in his mid 40's. And the logic is ****ing stupid: look at MMA fighters, particularly in the smaller weight classes. Many of those guys aren't jacked off but I bet if they tagged anyone here they'd be knocked right on their ass.

I'm quite confident that Sabre could put on a fair bit of muscle without going on steroids. I agree that he looks somewhat like a kid out there. The small MMA fighters also typically face off against other small MMA fighters, not the guys classified as heavyweights. The best case you could argue is that he's like Royce Gracie back in the earliest days of UFC.

The guy has a unique style, which I don't like really, but he would certainly look more convincing if he bulked up. If that counts as "body shaming" then I worry for the world.
 
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Shoalzie

Trust me!
May 16, 2003
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Watched the replay of the show throughout the day and I finished Okada winning the belt pretty much before the end of the opening montage for Mania.

I just don't watch any ROH to judge their matches fairly. Always have been a big fan of Lethal and Marty...the ladder match was good. The main New Japan matches were fun. Typical NJPW big show with a lot of title changes.

I really hope Okada keeps the belt for a while...at least until WrestleKingdom. The hot potato-ing of that title needs to stop.

Excited for Ibushi holding the IC title.

Match of the night was the Jr. title match. With Lee winning the belt...makes you wonder if Hiromu is back for BOSJ. Him facing Lee after the injury last year seems like a ready-made title match.
 

sabremike

Friend To All Giraffes
Aug 30, 2010
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You’re not going to drop dead in your 40s by going on one cycle. :laugh:
So we have you on record here advocating steroids in wrestling? Also you just have to do one cycle and you're good for life? Frankly anyone who thinks ZSJ isn't awesome is someone whose wrestling opinions I take as seriously as hockey opinions of people saying Rasmus Dahlin isn't even one of the top 3 Calder candidates.
 

Big Poppa Puck

HF's Villain
Dec 8, 2009
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I don’t get why you spend all that time building up Jay White only to have him lose the title so soon, without any defenses, and to Okada, who he just practically squashed at WK. Basically killed his momentum. Very WWE IMO. Good match though.

Some other thoughts:

The jr match was awesome too, just really short.

Ladder match was great. Wish Marty would have won, but understand why he didn’t, since his departure is inevitable.

Ibushi-Naito was pretty much as you expect.

I lol’d at the Enzo & Cass run in. I was like “wow that dude looked like Enzo” Apparently it was a work though and they might be signing with ROH.
 

Shoalzie

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Seems like ROH is scraping the bottom of the barrel because they had the Beautiful People confront Kelly Klein after the women's match. They're not high on my list of much watch so adding Enzo and Cass is their problem.

The Jay White situation is interesting. They seem to have high hopes for him because they had him go over a legend like Tanahashi and if you go over his entire 2018, he really was elevated to be a top guy starting with taking the US title off Kenny and being so involved in the Bullet Club drama and in stirring up trouble within Chaos as Okada dealt with the loss of the title.

Considering they made such a big deal about Okada's long reign and all his title defenses...Kenny's reign lasted 200+ days but wasn't overly impressive in terms of who he beat. I think his moment was overtaking Okada to get the belt. He beat Ishii to get back the loss he had at G1. I never really liked that Cody was in two of the successful title defenses.

I think Tanahashi beating Kenny should've been made a bigger deal and have him hold the belt until at least MSG and have either Jay or Okada take it from him there. Jay would've done well with a long run in the NJC and he would've been legitimized if he earned his title shot rather than just challenge Tanahashi at New Year Dash.
 

Natey

GOATS
Aug 2, 2005
62,287
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This is a joke right? Like, you're not being serious with that?
Yes. Very serious.

The RoH portion was like a local trash indy. Just a trainwreck.

The NJPW portion was good with some lousy booking.

And Kelly Klein needs to retire. When Mayu can't get a good match out of you - something is very wrong.
 

Shoalzie

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I wouldn't call it awful...thought it would be better.

I loved Ibushi-Naito, Ospreay-Cobb and the Jr. title match...three best things on the card. The heavyweight title match was good...not a Kenny-Okada classic but they told a good story with Gedo involved. The ladder match was good but a tad long. The tag matches and the rumble were overbooked but were silly fun.

Sabre-Tanahashi was okay but it's now reported that Tana is missing the Dontaku tour due to injury. He's probably been work hurt for a little while.
 

sabremike

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Also a note to people online saying the crowd reaction to ZSJ-Tanahashi wasn't good: the Enzo/Cass bullshit had everyone on their phones trying to figure out what happened. So not only did this idiocy wreck the Yano stealing the belts angle (and Tama Tanga was really pissed on Twitter afterwards and I can't blame him) it also wrecked the ZSJ-Tanahashi match.
 

Big Poppa Puck

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Dec 8, 2009
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Seems like ROH is scraping the bottom of the barrel because they had the Beautiful People confront Kelly Klein after the women's match. They're not high on my list of much watch so adding Enzo and Cass is their problem.

Well as I said earlier in the thread, AEW coming a long really hurt them, I mean you always had guys leaving for WWE but now you have AEW and they took the Elite, SCU and Best Friends with them. And Marty is going to one or the other the moment his contract ends. So I guess they have to try something.

The Jay White situation is interesting. They seem to have high hopes for him because they had him go over a legend like Tanahashi and if you go over his entire 2018, he really was elevated to be a top guy starting with taking the US title off Kenny and being so involved in the Bullet Club drama and in stirring up trouble within Chaos as Okada dealt with the loss of the title.

Considering they made such a big deal about Okada's long reign and all his title defenses...Kenny's reign lasted 200+ days but wasn't overly impressive in terms of who he beat. I think his moment was overtaking Okada to get the belt. He beat Ishii to get back the loss he had at G1. I never really liked that Cody was in two of the successful title defenses.

I think Tanahashi beating Kenny should've been made a bigger deal and have him hold the belt until at least MSG and have either Jay or Okada take it from him there. Jay would've done well with a long run in the NJC and he would've been legitimized if he earned his title shot rather than just challenge Tanahashi at New Year Dash.

I agree with all this. I think the fact that Gedo books two years out you had a lot of substitutions and random changes* after AEW formed and Omega (and even Beretta, seems like they had plans for him) left. The original plan was Omega-Okada to headline MSG, probably with Okada winning, as you saw Sat night. But with Kenny leaving, the belts thrown on Tanahashi as a transitional champ to get it on White and White is the Omega (Bullet Club) replacement for MSG. But like you said just have Tana lose it to White at MSG after White wins the NJCup. But I don’t think Okada was never not headlining MSG. So in that case you could have had Okada beat Tana for the title at New Beginning and then White beats him in NY or still have Okada win the cup and take it off Tanahashi at MSG, then White can win it at Dominion, but I also think they wanted a gaijin in that match and in that scenario, there’s also nothing for White to do at MSG.

*There was also obviously a reason Yujiro and Chase were on The Elite side of the Civil War, then they just were thrown back in with the OGs with open arms at NY Dash after some throw away mixup on the preshow with Page at WK. Because there was never any real resolution to that.
 

Big Poppa Puck

HF's Villain
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Also a note to people online saying the crowd reaction to ZSJ-Tanahashi wasn't good: the Enzo/Cass bull**** had everyone on their phones trying to figure out what happened. So not only did this idiocy wreck the Yano stealing the belts angle (and Tama Tanga was really pissed on Twitter afterwards and I can't blame him) it also wrecked the ZSJ-Tanahashi match.

The Enzo & Cass stuff was such an overbooked mess. Have them do a worked shoot run in, but also have Yano steal the belts? And why did Bubba Ray run out? Was that supposed to make us believe it was real? Enzo’s a POS IRL, so people could see believe him doing something like that, but the moment Cass comes out from under the ring, it kinda ruins the whole thing. Also if it was real, Jay Briscoe is probably in jail for murder right now.

I didn’t real pay attention to that match either and I didn’t even watch it live, but I’m also admittedly not a big ZSJ fan and his style.
 

M.C.G. 31

Damn, he brave!
Oct 6, 2008
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LMAO Tama whipped that ROH belt across the room worse than Lesnar did the title to Vince at WM34 and said “look at that trash. No one gives a f*** about ROH.” :laugh:
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
185,633
37,428
Yes. Very serious.

The RoH portion was like a local trash indy. Just a trainwreck.

The NJPW portion was good with some lousy booking.

And Kelly Klein needs to retire. When Mayu can't get a good match out of you - something is very wrong.
Sounds like Mayu got hurt, which may be why she dropped. But their women's division is a problem, when Impact is better than you, it's time to take stock.

Didn't actually see the show though, so can't speak to it. Seems that people expected, and rightfully so, expected a more NJPW-style show and had too much of the ROH element. On top of that, ROH people thought they should've went last, which seems ridiculous to think for a NJPW-branded show.
 

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