Rockets owner hasn’t given up on dream of Houston NHL team (mod: Houston thread)

MNNumbers

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Appreciate the breakdown. Yeah, it's still a pricey endeavor to break early even if Viola wants out beforehand. That would have to be factored into a sale to Fertitta or Quebecor if it came to that.

That's what I'm saying....

If losses are 20M a year, then what do you do?
If you leave after 2023, you pay 72M to Broward County, but you forfeit 14M worth of subsidies in the next 5 years. Thus, you are paying out 86M dollars. To save 100M. That looks like a win, and looks better if losses are higher.

Leave after 2024:
Pay 64M, forfeit 10M of subsidies, to save 80M. Less of a win.

Leave after 2025:
Pay 56M, forfeit 6M, to save 60M in losses (this is closer to breakeven)....

And, so on.

Conclusion being that, if the losses continue to be that high, if you can move to a different market where your ancillary income (arena management fees in the lease) are exactly the same as Broward County, and you can break even....then you relocate, because you are going to save some bucks.

However, if you are a potential owner in a different market, thinking of buying to relocate, then you wait, so that you are not on the hook for the lease-breaking fees.
 

TheLegend

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Legend doesn't know any more about Florida than I do.

You're correct. I do know Viola has a lot of other interests in Florida besides the Panthers. Mostly real estate IIRC.

But he's also worth $2.4 billion (as of 2018), and to date, not a peep of any of his other endeavors going south any time soon.

Meruelo's also in the same wealth range as Viola and also possesses an asset package that's just as well diversified. And the Coyotes's situation has been steadily improving in spite of the arena location "handicap".
 

Troublesome 85

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So what..... or should I say.... who is the “right team?”

Calgary has a new arena in the works, so do the Islanders.....and Florida’s is locked in.

Carolina isn’t going anywhere for a while and Arizona I’m sorry to say isn’t either. Even with a planned move to the Central.

Fertitta can look anywhere he wants. He’s not getting a franchise on the cheap.

How hard would it be for a billionaire like him and maybe a few others to entice the NHL to make an expansion team to go along with Seattle?
 

MNNumbers

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You're correct. I do know Viola has a lot of other interests in Florida besides the Panthers. Mostly real estate IIRC.

But he's also worth $2.4 billion (as of 2018), and to date, not a peep of any of his other endeavors going south any time soon.

Meruelo's also in the same wealth range as Viola and also possesses an asset package that's just as well diversified. And the Coyotes's situation has been steadily improving in spite of the arena location "handicap".

I don't want to divert this thread to the Coyotes, but I think it is, in some sense, a Coyotes thread, because if Fertitta gets a team, the easiest path to see that happening right now is for the Coyotes to move to Houston, so allow me to comment...

"Arena location handicap" -- This has never been anything more than 'spin', imo. The complaint that the league, and that prior ownership, have had with Glendale is not where it is located, but that the city defended itself against the incompetence of IA/LeBlanc, and found a way to escape paying millions more a year for the presence of the team than was 'fair.' So, the comments of the arena location not being viable were really 'revenge' and 'advertising for a new place with better terms for the team.'

What little I know of what has happened under Meruelo impresses me - outreach to the Spanish-speaking community, especially. He may have deep enough pockets that he can withstand a few millions a year in losses, and that would be great.

As for the market, it remains to be seen whether the entire NHL model can continue. I say this because, in spite of his $$, Meruelo can't change the reality of how much local revenue disparity there is between himself and Toronto, the Rangers, and Montreal. And, interestingly, if one actually does the math, even if the media contract goes up, that doesn't change the actual numbers of how much more revenue Toronto gets from Toronto versus how much Arizona gets from Arizona (or any of several other markets as well - this is not a disrespect to Phoenix Valley, it's a comment on the entire league). Reality is, the league NEEDS a large influx of media cash, and with that, all the owners together need to change their revenue sharing rules, or the CBA and the 50% rule, with continue to stress the lower-revenue markets.
 
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Bonsai Tree

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I don't want to divert this thread to the Coyotes, but I think it is, in some sense, a Coyotes thread, because if Fertitta gets a team, the easiest path to see that happening right now is for the Coyotes to move to Houston, so allow me to comment...

"Arena location handicap" -- This has never been anything more than 'spin', imo. ....
Spoken like somebody who rarely makes the drive, if ever. Enlightenment by Google Maps is rarely fulfilling. Last night I left Ahwatukee at 5:20 and sat down in my seat at 7:20, missing the first 5 or so minutes of the game. Just sayin'. On weekends it takes me about 40-45 minutes.
 
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TheLegend

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That trip from Ahwatukee will be getting cut in half when the Loop 202 South Mountain freeeway opens. :nod:

That said...... I need to make something clear here.

When I used the term "arena location handicap" it was is reference to noting that in spite of that, the Coyotes have managed to increase their attendance, corporate revenues, etc. for the past two years.

The handicap for east valley fans is there. Access to Glendale from the eastern half of Phoenix Metro is not a picnic. There's no denying that. It's just not THE handicap that some people want to make it.

Even so that's not the Coyotes fault. That's not really even Glendale's fault. That's on decades worth of poor planning and lack of vision by the people responsible for the transportation infrastructure in Phoenix Metro.

However..... IMNSHO..... where the Coyotes are at fault is wasting years focussing solely on what's relatively a very small segment of the Phoenix population, not to mention a specific set of temporary residents...... instead of spreading out their brand statewide as they have been the past couple of years.
 

MNNumbers

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My comments were off the same intention as Legend. I'm sure the arena location is a problem for the east valley fans. I'm also sure that management and Bettman were supply using that to advertise their willingness to work with a new partner.

My prediction is that, 5 years from now, the Coyotes will still be playing at GRA.
 

TheLegend

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I wouldn’t be surprised either if they’re there a few more years.

Then again I don’t care where they play in the Phoenix Metro area as long as they have a good business foundation under them. They could have had it a long time ago. Just had the wrong people in place for the wrong reasons.
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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That trip from Ahwatukee will be getting cut in half when the Loop 202 South Mountain freeeway opens. :nod:

That said...... I need to make something clear here.

When I used the term "arena location handicap" it was is reference to noting that in spite of that, the Coyotes have managed to increase their attendance, corporate revenues, etc. for the past two years.

The handicap for east valley fans is there. Access to Glendale from the eastern half of Phoenix Metro is not a picnic. There's no denying that. It's just not THE handicap that some people want to make it.

Even so that's not the Coyotes fault. That's not really even Glendale's fault. That's on decades worth of poor planning and lack of vision by the people responsible for the transportation infrastructure in Phoenix Metro.

However..... IMNSHO..... where the Coyotes are at fault is wasting years focussing solely on what's relatively a very small segment of the Phoenix population, not to mention a specific set of temporary residents...... instead of spreading out their brand statewide as they have been the past couple of years.
If they would start weeknight games at 7:30, there would be minimal problems coming from the East side.
 

TheLegend

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If they would start weeknight games at 7:30, there would be minimal problems coming from the East side.

The caveat there is getting home later on weeknights. Kids with school the next morning and most adults start their day at 5:30-6:00 am.

So it’s not really a good situation whichever way you go.
 

TheWhiskeyThief

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The caveat there is getting home later on weeknights. Kids with school the next morning and most adults start their day at 5:30-6:00 am.

So it’s not really a good situation whichever way you go.

You make zero dollars if they never get through the door. This is biz 101. Games don't run 3 hours anymore.
 

TheLegend

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You make zero dollars if they never get through the door. This is biz 101. Games don't run 3 hours anymore.

No duh.....

They either get late to the party or they’re late going home.

Choose your poison. There is no perfect scenario here. 7:30pm weeknight starts have been brought up before and that’s the response you get. Saturday’s were moved from 7pm to 6pm three years ago as a solution for that night.

You’re left with making your product so good people will overlook that.

That Reality 101.
 

Dirty Old Man

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Why not split the difference and make it 7:15?

Yeah, seems like an obvious solution, but the answer probably is "television". A 7pm start is really a 7:07pm start, so a 7:15pm start would really be a 7:22pm start nominally, and the broadcast partner would start getting complaints about "20 mins of pregame? Drop the puck already". Hockey Night in Canada can get away with that some, but Fox sports RSNs not as much I'd guess.
 

AdmiralsFan24

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Yeah, seems like an obvious solution, but the answer probably is "television". A 7pm start is really a 7:07pm start, so a 7:15pm start would really be a 7:22pm start nominally, and the broadcast partner would start getting complaints about "20 mins of pregame? Drop the puck already". Hockey Night in Canada can get away with that some, but Fox sports RSNs not as much I'd guess.

A 7:15 start doesn't have to mean a 7:22 start. Just get all the bullshit out of the way to make sure the game is ready to start at 7:15.
 

Centrum Hockey

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Doesn't appear Tilman Fertitta was ever in a position to even talk about owning an NHL franchise, let alone actually owning one, if people
are now questioning his ability to even purchase the Houston Rockets.
Was Tilman Fertitta financially prepared to purchase the Rockets?
Gary and Co must have gotten the sense he was just trying to buy a team like the Yotes for below market value and Sell off the other assets the team owns and shed salary. So the team could be profitable in its first season in Houston.
 
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TheLegend

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In other words..... what you guys are trying to convince yourselves of is..... Fertitta was going to be even a worse owner than the original Ice Arizona group was, yet could still make a buck.

:facepalm:
 

StreetHawk

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In other words..... what you guys are trying to convince yourselves of is..... Fertitta was going to be even a worse owner than the original Ice Arizona group was, yet could still make a buck.

:facepalm:
As owner of the Rockets and Operator of the Toyota Center he’s the only group who can own a team in Houston unless the city approves construction of another arena which they don’t need.
If he can’t afford a team then that should end all of this speculation about the NhL in Houston.
 

Bluesguru

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NHL is wasting it's time in Florida. The Panthers moving is inevitable. Just move them please. Quebec, Houston................
 

Big Z Man 1990

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Don't say anything at all
Houston could get an NHL team without the involvement of Fertitta.

Here's how.

A potential owner could make a temporary arrangement for the team to play at Minute Maid Park, with the roof closed. This would be done until the owner gets a new arena built for the team.

NHL teams playing home games in indoor stadiums designed for baseball and/or football is nothing new. The Lightning played in what is now Tropicana Field for a few seasons in the 1990s. A few years back a Heritage Classic was also held at BC Place in Vancouver, where weather prevented the game from being played with the roof open.

And before you say Houston doesn't need another arena, I will stop you right there. Numerous major markets have multiple NHL/NBA sized indoor arenas. Even in markets which only have one team in each league. These markets with multiple arenas are Bay Area, Los Angeles, Miami, New York City, Phoenix, and the Twin Cities.
 

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