RoBort Cop (Roberto Bortuzzio)

[MtlPenFan]

You don't trade Niskanen to play Bortuzzo.

Sorry folks, but outside of Martin and Mattaa, Nisky has been our steadiest defenseman. He'll have one weird blunder a game that has more with him overrating his own skillset than anything involving hockey IQ, but it almost never costs the team.

I'd much rather see Orpik go to give Bortuzzo playing time over Nisky.

What's more worrying with this stupid team is that for the first time in years, the 4th line is actually getting zone time on offense, and it's no coincidence that it's happening because Glass is out and Megna is in...

...so of course, Megna at practice today is on the "5th line" with Kobasew.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'd much rather see Orpik go to give Bortuzzo playing time over Nisky.

Me too.

But I think it could be both with very little dropoff in on-ice quality.

However, for the record, I think Niskanen has been mostly solid.

 

[Til the End of Time]

You don't trade Niskanen to play Bortuzzo.

Sorry folks, but outside of Martin and Mattaa, Nisky has been our steadiest defenseman. He'll have one weird blunder a game that has more with him overrating his own skillset than anything involving hockey IQ, but it almost never costs the team.

I'd much rather see Orpik go to give Bortuzzo playing time over Nisky.

even if that were true, so what? we all know he will wilt when the games matter in the playoffs. and hes (hopefully) gone after this season.

niskanen will hurt this team come april/may. but bortuzzo plays the exact style of hockey that is highly valuable in the playoffs, which the penguins have been missing in the postseason since gill/scuderi left. and hes only going to get better with more experience.

continuing to play/pay orpik/niskanen while bortuzzo sits in the press box is extremely short-sighted. and add in the cap savings from dumping one of the vets, its a no brainer.

 

[djt153]

even if that were true, so what? we all know he will wilt when the games matter in the playoffs. and hes (hopefully) gone after this season.

niskanen will hurt this team come april/may. but bortuzzo plays the exact style of hockey that is highly valuable in the playoffs, which the penguins have been missing in the postseason since gill/scuderi left. and hes only going to get better with more experience.

excuse this inherently subjective garbeled mess as i admittedly have a knowledge of hockey that comes exclusively from watching the penguins for the last 25 years or so, but it seems to me that come playoff time when pressure picks up that you can either make what id label for lack of better knowledge of jargon hard or soft mistakes. niskanen seems very prone to these soft mistakes, which i would define as poor decisions at or near your own goal line that result in pucks staying in rather than exiting the zone hard and up the boards. i think bortuzzo plays the kind of game conducive to making less soft mistakes and more hard mistakes, which might mean more icings, but less sustained pressure from the cycle

 

[mpp9]

even if that were true, so what? we all know he will wilt when the games matter in the playoffs. and hes (hopefully) gone after this season.

niskanen will hurt this team come april/may. but bortuzzo plays the exact style of hockey that is highly valuable in the playoffs, which the penguins have been missing in the postseason since gill/scuderi left. and hes only going to get better with more experience.

continuing to play/pay orpik/niskanen while bortuzzo sits in the press box is extremely short-sighted. and add in the cap savings from dumping one of the vets, its a no brainer.

If Nisky can bring us an upgrade at forward you deal him. But if not, I have no problem going with Despres/Nisky as a bottom pairing. Nisky needs a big body with him to cover up for his weaknesses under pressure. Despres can take the hit along the boards, shield the puck and move it along.

 

[MtlPenFan]

even if that were true, so what? we all know he will wilt when the games matter in the playoffs. and hes (hopefully) gone after this season.

niskanen will hurt this team come april/may. but bortuzzo plays the exact style of hockey that is highly valuable in the playoffs, which the penguins have been missing in the postseason since gill/scuderi left. and hes only going to get better with more experience.

continuing to play/pay orpik/niskanen while bortuzzo sits in the press box is extremely short-sighted. and add in the cap savings from dumping one of the vets, its a no brainer.

Oh?

He was our only bright spot in that debacle against Philly. He and Strait actually and to a degree, Despres.

When we scored a total of 2 goals against Boston last year, I don't remember thinking "Man, that Niskanen really can't handle a forecheck"

All this Nisky hate is nonsensical, and the funniest argument is the biggest fallacy in that "He wilts under a heavy forecheck". This is an argument you in particular keep bringing up as if saying it over and over again will actually make it true.

It isn't. The guy's a good hockey player and FYI, while I'd like to see Bort in the lineup over Engo AND Orpik, he shouldn't be in over Nisky.

 

[Pens1566]

even if that were true, so what? we all know he will wilt when the games matter in the playoffs. and hes (hopefully) gone after this season.

niskanen will hurt this team come april/may. but bortuzzo plays the exact style of hockey that is highly valuable in the playoffs, which the penguins have been missing in the postseason since gill/scuderi left. and hes only going to get better with more experience.

continuing to play/pay orpik/niskanen while bortuzzo sits in the press box is extremely short-sighted. and add in the cap savings from dumping one of the vets, its a no brainer.

The bolded is based on what? Him being the only non knuckle-head on the blueline a few years ago in the philly series?

 

[MtlPenFan]

The bolded is based on what? Him being the only non knuckle-head on the blueline a few years ago in the philly series?

God THANK YOU. Nisky was the only one who could look himself in the mirror after that series.

He was also great last year until he got hurt (leg?) and took him a while to get back to normal. I don't remember a single bad thing he did in the playoffs.

At least when I choose my whipping boys, it's based on some actual facts.

 

[billybudd]

Oh?

He was our only bright spot in that debacle against Philly. He and Strait actually and to a degree, Despres.

When we scored a total of 2 goals against Boston last year, I don't remember thinking "Man, that Niskanen really can't handle a forecheck"

All this Nisky hate is nonsensical, and the funniest argument is the biggest fallacy in that "He wilts under a heavy forecheck". This is an argument you in particular keep bringing up as if saying it over and over again will actually make it true.

It isn't. The guy's a good hockey player and FYI, while I'd like to see Bort in the lineup over Engo AND Orpik, he shouldn't be in over Nisky.

Niskanen was a circus act against Tampa, but beyond that? Yeah, this "wilts under pressure" tag is pure invention. He's not an eye-popping player to watch, but what he's responsible for he does and does competently. At his price tag, that's about all that can be asked. And, as you said, he was the lone bright spot in the Flyer clown show (despite a broken clavicle or whatever the Hell his injury was).

Add me to the list of people who'd rather see Engo and Orpik out of the lineup than Niskanen.

 

[vodeni]

Niskanen was a circus act against Tampa, but beyond that? Yeah, this "wilts under pressure" tag is pure invention. He's not an eye-popping player to watch, but what he's responsible for he does and does competently. At his price tag, that's about all that can be asked. And, as you said, he was the lone bright spot in the Flyer clown show (despite a broken clavicle or whatever the Hell his injury was).

Add me to the list of people who'd rather see Engo and Orpik out of the lineup than Niskanen.

add me to that list too.

 

[Shady Machine]

God THANK YOU. Nisky was the only one who could look himself in the mirror after that series.

He was also great last year until he got hurt (leg?) and took him a while to get back to normal. I don't remember a single bad thing he did in the playoffs.

At least when I choose my whipping boys, it's based on some actual facts.

Getting his ass kicked by Okposo was really stupid, but in terms of playing hockey, he was fine in the playoffs.

My reason for wanting to trade him is that he is just a roadblock AND he might have some trade value. So it's Nisky with Despres in the minors when healthy and/or Bort in the press box. OR you can trade him and have Despres in the every day lineup + whatever you get in a trade + 2.3 mil in cap space (if the trade is just a pick). It's really a no brainer.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Niskanen was a circus act against Tampa, but beyond that? Yeah, this "wilts under pressure" tag is pure invention. He's not an eye-popping player to watch, but what he's responsible for he does and does competently. At his price tag, that's about all that can be asked. And, as you said, he was the lone bright spot in the Flyer clown show (despite a broken clavicle or whatever the Hell his injury was).

Add me to the list of people who'd rather see Engo and Orpik out of the lineup than Niskanen.

Fact is, Bort needed a sitting after the Rangers game. He was AWFUL (mind you, the entire team was). However, the punishment has gone on long enough, and like we've mentioned, there are a couple of other guys I'd rather have sit right now over Bort.

 

[MtlPenFan]

Getting his ass kicked by Okposo was really stupid, but in terms of playing hockey, he was fine in the playoffs.

My reason for wanting to trade him is that he is just a roadblock AND he might have some trade value. So it's Nisky with Despres in the minors when healthy and/or Bort in the press box. OR you can trade him and have Despres in the every day lineup + whatever you get in a trade + 2.3 mil in cap space (if the trade is just a pick). It's really a no brainer.

If you're going to dangle him for a potential "high" return, then I'm all ears.

But if people want to get rid of him because "he sucks", then it's complete malarky.

 

[Shady Machine]

Fact is, Bort needed a sitting after the Rangers game. He was AWFUL (mind you, the entire team was). However, the punishment has gone on long enough, and like we've mentioned, there are a couple of other guys I'd rather have sit right now over Bort.

He made one blatant mistake. The rest was about as bad as everyone else. He shouldn't have been the scapegoat. Even if you can argue that he needed a sitting, a few games at most should have been it. I believe he has played 1 of the last 13 games (or something absurd like that) after playing the first 14. There really isn't an excuse for that with the injuries we have had on D.

 

[Shady Machine]

If you're going to dangle him for a potential "high" return, then I'm all ears.

But if people want to get rid of him because "he sucks", then it's complete malarky.

It's also about team makeup to me. It's not always the best 6 dmen in a nutshell. You have to look at strengths and who compliments each other. IMO, Nisky is best paired with a stay at home guy like Scuds or Bortuzzo. We all know once we are healthy (if that ever happens) the top 6 will be:

Orpik-Martin
Scuds-Letang
Maatta-Niskanen

Do you really believe that is the best 3rd pairing we could throw out in the playoffs? I would argue that Bortuzzo with Maatta would make this team more balanced on D AND harder to play against. Even if they traded Orpik, which won't happen, I'd much rather have Despres in there for his size and physicality over Niskanen. I just don't see a role for Niskanen on this defense.

 

[IcedCapp]

bottom line on Niskanen:

He's not good. The only time he's looked passable is when paired with Scuderi and Despres. Every other time he's been a mess on skates.

Unfortunately, if the Pens ever manage to get healthy, he can never be paired with Despres or Scuderi, unless Orpik/Martin is traded or Maatta is sent to London.

So if you're building your roster with an eye towards the playoffs/being healthy, you should understand that Niskanen won't be in a position to succeed at that point.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

In a non-Disco world, I'd much rather hold on to Engelland as a vet scratch defenseman (so as to not bench someone like, say... Bortuzzo) and as a fourth line forward. Orpik seems like a no-brainer trade/Summer release and as decent as I think Niskanen has been... he's the long-time odd man out when everyone is healthy.

But as things are... you pretty much have to take all the coach's toys away to be safe. Or just accept that it will be none, at all.

MTL... what would you consider "fair" value for Niskanen?

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Nothing has changed re: Niskanen as far as I'm concerned. He's fine as a right defenseman, subpar as a left defenseman. Is he better than Bortuzzo right now? Sure. He's also a UFA to be. Are we going to commit to him? Is he redundant now that Letang is signed for the long term? Are we dealing Letang? Are we dealing Orpik?

The bottom line is we're wasting away with Bortuzzo and something has to give. Trading Niskanen or Orpik is a better option than losing Bortuzzo to waivers. Trading Letang is a little more risky, but for a No. 1 winger it's a great idea.

But I think history suggests this isn't going to end well with Bortuzzo. There's something about his game Bylsma doesn't like. So, eventually, we're going to lose him via waivers, then he's going to say something cryptic to his new local media about his lack of opportunities here, and some people on this board will suggest he was never any great shakes so who cares.

Groundhog Day.

 

[wgknestrick]

add me to that list too.

I'm just here for the g@ngb@ng...I mean list

 

[Darth Vitale]

Ready
Ominpresent
Bone-crushing
Ornery
Righteous
Tenacious


Extraneous
Not Skilled
Good fighter
Overplayed

 

[MrBurghundy]

bottom line on Niskanen:

He's not good. The only time he's looked passable is when paired with Scuderi and Despres. Every other time he's been a mess on skates.

Unfortunately, if the Pens ever manage to get healthy, he can never be paired with Despres or Scuderi, unless Orpik/Martin is traded or Maatta is sent to London.

So if you're building your roster with an eye towards the playoffs/being healthy, you should understand that Niskanen won't be in a position to succeed at that point.

Seriously.

Niskanen is a perfect reflection of what's wrong with this team. He plays well defensively and offensively except when it matters. The whole "wilts under pressure" doesn't mean he's some kind of pansy ass hockey player who can't stand up to being hit. It means of he's pressured by a heavy forecheck, he consistently turns the puck over making ill advised breakout passes to players across the blue line or bad passes his defensive zone that get picked off. I see it happen on an every game basis these days and it won't get any better when the playoffs start.

Also people are severely underselling Bortuzzo's offensive ability. He's got a great first pass, knows when to jump up on the rush, and has some pretty good wheels for a big guy. Plus the way he plays the game is exactly what we need in the playoffs. More so than Niskanen's game in the playoffs.

 

[jmelm]

Seriously.

Niskanen is a perfect reflection of what's wrong with this team. He plays well defensively and offensively except when it matters. The whole "wilts under pressure" doesn't mean he's some kind of pansy ass hockey player who can't stand up to being hit. It means of he's pressured by a heavy forecheck, he consistently turns the puck over making ill advised breakout passes to players across the blue line or bad passes his defensive zone that get picked off. I see it happen on an every game basis these days and it won't get any better when the playoffs start.

Also people are severely underselling Bortuzzo's offensive ability. He's got a great first pass, knows when to jump up on the rush, and has some pretty good wheels for a big guy. Plus the way he plays the game is exactly what we need in the playoffs. More so than Niskanen's game in the playoffs.

I don't disagree, and I'm a huge Bortuzzo proponent, but people are not seeing the full picture here and/or are jumping the gun. If you say the same thing and nothing has changed after the trade deadline, I will agree with you.


But in the meantime, we have NO idea what Shero & Co's plans are for moving a Dman. If they wanted to move Orpik or Niskanen (or even Engelland?) by the deadline or when Scuderi returns, etc., then scratching them and having them sitting in the pressbox would KILL their trade value. I have no doubt that the Pens will eventually, and probably sometime this season, be looking to trade one of their defensemen for a forward. There's a heck of a lot of time left before the deadline, and while I hate to see Bortuzzo sitting every night, I'm fine with it if it's because they're showcasing someone whom they may eventually trade. I still firmly believe Bortuzzo is part of this teams long-term plans, obviously starting next season (as a regular in the top 6).

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't disagree, and I'm a huge Bortuzzo proponent, but people are not seeing the full picture here and/or are jumping the gun. If you say the same thing and nothing has changed after the trade deadline, I will agree with you.


But in the meantime, we have NO idea what Shero & Co's plans are for moving a Dman. If they wanted to move Orpik or Niskanen (or even Engelland?) by the deadline or when Scuderi returns, etc., then scratching them and having them sitting in the pressbox would KILL their trade value. I have no doubt that the Pens will eventually, and probably sometime this season, be looking to trade one of their defensemen for a forward. There's a heck of a lot of time left before the deadline, and while I hate to see Bortuzzo sitting every night, I'm fine with it if it's because they're showcasing someone whom they may eventually trade. I still firmly believe Bortuzzo is part of this teams long-term plans, obviously starting next season (as a regular in the top 6).

I respectfully disagree with pretty much all of this, jmelm. Bortuzzo has no future with this organization (unless we clean house and by some miracle he's still here). I also disagree that scratching a veteran player kills their trade value. Sometimes, it's a great way to alert all 29 teams of a player's availability. Dmitry Kulikov was scratched last night. It won't hurt his value. What hurts Kulikov's value is what might hurt Niskanen's value...free agency. Kulikov will be a RFA this summer, but word is he's already agreed to terms with a KHL club, so I think teams may view him as a rental to some degree. Niskanen's UFA status hurts his value more than any potential healthy scratch situation. Aside from the fact he's played well enough since seeing most of his minutes on the right side to avoid being scratched, in my opinion.

Also, what can Shero do? He has no cap space. If Vokoun doesn't return, this is the team we're entering the playoffs win. We. Are. Family. The players Shero would need to deal in order to acquire cap space, he simply won't deal. Oh, he might eventually trade Niskanen for a pick, then turn around and flip that pick or a prospect for another grizzled UFA-to-be winger...that Bylsma will use like toilet paper.

I don't see how you're positive about Bortuzzo's situation. He's in purgatory.

Oh, and Kulikov for McGinn makes a lot of sense. Watch it happen.

 

[wgknestrick]

I respectfully disagree with pretty much all of this, jmelm. Bortuzzo has no future with this organization (unless we clean house and by some miracle he's still here). I also disagree that scratching a veteran player kills their trade value. Sometimes, it's a great way to alert all 29 teams of a player's availability. Dmitry Kulikov was scratched last night. It won't hurt his value. What hurts Kulikov's value is what might hurt Niskanen's value...free agency. Kulikov will be a RFA this summer, but word is he's already agreed to terms with a KHL club, so I think teams may view him as a rental to some degree. Niskanen's UFA status hurts his value more than any potential healthy scratch situation. Aside from the fact he's played well enough since seeing most of his minutes on the right side to avoid being scratched, in my opinion.

Also, what can Shero do? He has no cap space. If Vokoun doesn't return, this is the team we're entering the playoffs win. We. Are. Family. The players Shero would need to deal in order to acquire cap space, he simply won't deal. Oh, he might eventually trade Niskanen for a pick, then turn around and flip that pick or a prospect for another grizzled UFA-to-be winger...that Bylsma will use like toilet paper.

I don't see how you're positive about Bortuzzo's situation. He's in purgatory.

Oh, and Kulikov for McGinn makes a lot of sense. Watch it happen.

I agree. Teams are not stupid. Does anyone ignore a player's career or potential just because they were scratched? Crosby was healthy scratched....Hell no! We don't want him now.

Healthy scratched means nothing because you are dealing with people's opinions of why that player is scratched. This is also the team that scratched Satan/TK in preference of 4th line scrubs. I know their opinion holds 0 value to me.

 

[jmelm]

I agree. Teams are not stupid. Does anyone ignore a player's career or potential just because they were scratched? Crosby was healthy scratched....Hell no! We don't want him now.

Healthy scratched means nothing because you are dealing with people's opinions of why that player is scratched. This is also the team that scratched Satan/TK in preference of 4th line scrubs. I know their opinion holds 0 value to me.

We're not talking about scratching a Nisky or Engo or Orpik for 1 game here and there to get Bortuzzo in one game here and there. That doesn't solve the issue we are all concerned about: getting Bortuzzo in the line-up EVERY night so he can develop and become part of this core. So sure, we can take one of those 3 out for 1 game at a time and call it a "maintenance" day and it wouldn't hurt their value, but how does it help Bort if he gets in for 1 game, and then scratched for another 5?

And if you think that making Niskanen a healthy scratch for 10-15 games and think that this wouldn't hurt his value, you're living on another planet. That's the polar opposite

As far the Kulikov example: different story. This is a young kid with IMMENSE talent (i.e. Norris potential). I have no idea why Florida isn't thrilled with him, but if they had even an inkling that he may not be part of their core, they are NUTS for passing on Seth Jones. And the concern with Kulikov is that he *MIGHT* have a KHL option/inclination if he's not happy in Florida or simply because he's Russian, but he does not have a deal in place. If he did, there wouldn't be 25+ teams calling Florida and going hard after this guy. They won't give him away, and perhaps he'll start playing better and they'll re-sign him.

But it's "normal" for young Dmen (Morgan Rielly, Gardner, Subban, etc.) to be scratched for the odd game here and there to light a bit of a fire if they're not playing great. But that's very different from a veteran player who is an impending UFA like Nisky/Orpik/Engo who we know will be leaving our team sometime between now and the summer. It's apples & oranges.