RoBort Cop (Roberto Bortuzzio)

[MrBurghundy]

I haven't really followed all the threads 100% of the time recent days, so could someone summarize in a coherent way, why Bortuzzo did not play yesterday against Boston?

Because he isn't big, can't fight, isn't physical, and isn't a pain in the ass to play against. Plus he's not better than Engelland.

Oh wait, he's the exact opposite of all of those things. I guess this is the only logical reason then...

 

[MrBurghundy]

So we lost in OT, does Bort get back in or is there a mandatory minimum of games he must sit before Dan will play him?

We lost because Bortuzzo wasn't in the lineup. We must punish him with another 5 games for his insolence.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

It is a joke. Oh look it went over your head

It did.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

So we lost in OT, does Bort get back in or is there a mandatory minimum of games he must sit before Dan will play him?

You're forgetting that Engo was a major factor in earning a big point against the Big, Bad Boston Bruins. A big 4/5 on his report card, post game. Well done. Next time, maybe consider trying the stretch pass a few more times in situations that aren't at all appropriate.

 

[MrBurghundy]

I can't wait till Bortuzzo is waived later this season and is picked up by Philly and he proceeds to destroy Crosby and Malkin.

 

[ZapRowsdower13]

Still no Big Bird even tonight? Did I miss something? Is Despres in over him to show case his skill or what? I'm pulling for Despres to have a good game but really?

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

Looks like he is officially the 7th D with Engo getting over 22 minutes.

I'm going to start making "where's Waldo" photoshops and replace Waldo with Robort.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

WTF

We are quickly getting to the point where we need to either play him or trade/waive him. A young guy is not going to develop watching the season from the press box. Then when he does get in he'll be rusty and justify more scratchings.

 

[jmelm]

WTF

We are quickly getting to the point where we need to either play him or trade/waive him. A young guy is not going to develop watching the season from the press box. Then when he does get in he'll be rusty and justify more scratchings.

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Borts isn't playing, but let's not get crazy here. This organization knows it's probably losing THREE out of their current top-6/7 Dmen: Niskanen, Orpik and Engelland.


Even if they re-sign one of those guys, there's still room for Bortuzzo going forward. I think this organization really does genuinely like Bortuzzo (how can you not?), and whether they're showcasing some of those other guys, or just think that they're icing their best 6 Dmen, I think that they envision Bortuzzo as part of the future going forward -- starting full time next season at the last (IMO, and I hope).

 

[sf expat71]

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Borts isn't playing, but let's not get crazy here. This organization knows it's probably losing THREE out of their current top-6/7 Dmen: Niskanen, Orpik and Engelland.


Even if they re-sign one of those guys, there's still room for Bortuzzo going forward. I think this organization really does genuinely like Bortuzzo (how can you not?), and whether they're showcasing some of those other guys, or just think that they're icing their best 6 Dmen, I think that they envision Bortuzzo as part of the future going forward -- starting full time next season at the last (IMO, and I hope).

It's hard for me to accept this statement as true, when considering what happened with Eaton last year, Scuds this year, etc. Unless our future includes a coach who is more fair to young players, I have a hard time believing this will come to fruition.

 

[jmelm]

It's hard for me to accept this statement as true, when considering what happened with Eaton last year, Scuds this year, etc. Unless our future includes a coach who is more fair to young players, I have a hard time believing this will come to fruition.

Eaton, AND Doug Murray last year was not a great sign, or a direction I would have gone in. But I don't believe that is necessarily a harbinger of what the direction is going to be for this organization going forward. I think the circumstances are very different.

Last year, we were "all in". The only problem with that is that Shero's definition of "all in" either wasn't correct, or just didn't work. Giving up 2 second round picks for D. Murray pissed me the ******* off.

This year, however, it is different: as I said, we know that at least 2 of the 3 -- and very possibly ALL 3 -- of Orpik/Nisky/Engo are gone. Pluis there's the issue of the cap and the raises to Letang and Malkin (plus the raises guys like Orpik/Engo/Nisky will want), and we will be forced to make changes and using our young guys. Bringing in one veteran in Scuderi, expressly for the purpose of hedging against that loss, having some veteran & leadership presence, having a guy who could be a good partner for Letang, and not having to rush any of our young guys if not deserving -- I have no problem with that. As I've said before, worst case scenario: we may just have a good trade chip on our hands if we can ship out Scuderi in 1-2 years if Harry, Dumo or others are ready and playing well.

If we're losing 2 or 3 guys, and we sign 1, we have room for these young guys. We don't acquire all these good young Dmen just to let them rot. We will either play them or trade them, and I'm sure Shero has his finger on the trigger ready to make a move as soon as an appropriate offer comes along if we can acquire a young, top line forward.

 

[sf expat71]

Eaton, AND Doug Murray last year was not a great sign, or a direction I would have gone in. But I don't believe that is necessarily a harbinger of what the direction is going to be for this organization going forward. I think the circumstances are very different.

Last year, we were "all in". The only problem with that is that Shero's definition of "all in" either wasn't correct, or just didn't work. Giving up 2 second round picks for D. Murray pissed me the ******* off.

This year, however, it is different: as I said, we know that at least 2 of the 3 -- and very possibly ALL 3 -- of Orpik/Nisky/Engo are gone. Pluis there's the issue of the cap and the raises to Letang and Malkin (plus the raises guys like Orpik/Engo/Nisky will want), and we will be forced to make changes and using our young guys. Bringing in one veteran in Scuderi, expressly for the purpose of hedging against that loss, having some veteran & leadership presence, having a guy who could be a good partner for Letang, and not having to rush any of our young guys if not deserving -- I have no problem with that. As I've said before, worst case scenario: we may just have a good trade chip on our hands if we can ship out Scuderi in 1-2 years if Harry, Dumo or others are ready and playing well.

If we're losing 2 or 3 guys, and we sign 1, we have room for these young guys. We don't acquire all these good young Dmen just to let them rot. We will either play them or trade them, and I'm sure Shero has his finger on the trigger ready to make a move as soon as an appropriate offer comes along if we can acquire a young, top line forward.

But that's the thing though. We have Bort who IMO was playing well enough to make Orpik/Nisky/Engo a good trade chip right now, assuming we are willing to live with mistakes here and there while Bort improves. He surely is not improving in the press box. I don't know what, in the history of the Shero/Bylsma era, leads you to believe that we will let all three walk, let alone do so w/out signing veteran replacements. I hope you are right. I just can't believe it 'til I see it.

 

[Jacob]

They obviously feel that having Despres and Maatta is enough as far as inexperience on the blueline goes.. especially when you have Letang playing *like* a rookie right now.

That said, they're not putting Bortuzzo in a position to succeed, with how much he's sitting. I don't understand why Bylsma babies some guys and then throws others to the wolves.

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Borts isn't playing, but let's not get crazy here. This organization knows it's probably losing THREE out of their current top-6/7 Dmen: Niskanen, Orpik and Engelland.


Even if they re-sign one of those guys, there's still room for Bortuzzo going forward. I think this organization really does genuinely like Bortuzzo (how can you not?), and whether they're showcasing some of those other guys, or just think that they're icing their best 6 Dmen, I think that they envision Bortuzzo as part of the future going forward -- starting full time next season at the last (IMO, and I hope).

This is why what they are doing doesn't make sense to me and I question how highly they actually think of him. If we know we are losing 2-3 guys, that makes it even more important that Bort gets playing time.

We need him to continue developing and we need to know if we have a guy who can handle a consistent NHL job. We don't want to let guys go, only to find out Bortuzzo has regressed from sitting for 2 seasons or that he isn't capable of the consistency that we need.

The season is early but he has only played 15 out of 28 games. I guess that is better than the 15 total last season but still disappointing.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Borts isn't playing, but let's not get crazy here. This organization knows it's probably losing THREE out of their current top-6/7 Dmen: Niskanen, Orpik and Engelland.


Even if they re-sign one of those guys, there's still room for Bortuzzo going forward. I think this organization really does genuinely like Bortuzzo (how can you not?), and whether they're showcasing some of those other guys, or just think that they're icing their best 6 Dmen, I think that they envision Bortuzzo as part of the future going forward -- starting full time next season at the last (IMO, and I hope).

The thing that worries me is that, what if Bortuzzo grows tired of being in the press box when he probably even knows he is a more capable defenseman than Engelland is? What if he wants out and I would not blame him one bit if he did the way this team tends to treat young players.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

This is why what they are doing doesn't make sense to me and I question how highly they actually think of him. If we know we are losing 2-3 guys, that makes it even more important that Bort gets playing time.

We need him to continue developing and we need to know if we have a guy who can handle a consistent NHL job. We don't want to let guys go, only to find out Bortuzzo has regressed from sitting for 2 seasons or that he isn't capable of the consistency that we need.

The season is early but he has only played 15 out of 28 games. I guess that is better than the 15 total last season but still disappointing.

He brings a dimension to the defense that no one else does I think, not only is he a big guy with great reach, he's a pain to play against, he can also fight and he's solid in his own end. No, Engelland isn't that. A solid fighter yes, but not much else, he's alright in his own end to earn an 8th best on the depth chart list.

But how can a team that raved about him in the preseason with how he handled the Hawks, suddenly play a guy that is below him on the depth chart and sit Bortz?

This team squandered Jeffrey and Strait and possibly even Lovejoy...while they might not be much to people here anymore, 2 out of those 3 guys have gone on to be solid players for their new teams. I still have faith in Jeffrey forgetting the crap he was put through and can be come the player we all thought he could be.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

ColePens, does this still hold true?

 

[Gallatin]

The way this coaching staff handles Bort is one of the most damning peices of real data we have that they practice extreme favoritism against young players. The bias is so apparent, I wonder what pro scouts and GM's around the League think about it.

Bortuzzo is an EXCELLENT young defenseman, who has a bad game once in a while that is equivalent to an average game from someone like Engalland, who should be playing RW anyway. It's so frustrating sometimes watching this coaching staff do their thing.

Dude has a good stick, plays with leverage, is probably our best D clearing guys out front of the net, and has one of the better outlet passes on the team. He "usually" does not panick when under pressure like Engelland, Niskannen, & Orpik do all the time.

Realistically - if you add in net front, corners, boards, and open ice, Robort has been our most physical defenseman this season, and he often drives our opponents forwards nuts, while even winning the odd fight here and there.

The guy just is so solid. He looks like he should be a good 2nd pairing player someday, a guy who will get 4 or 5 mil per as a free agent. Sure he makes some mistakes, and has a bad game occasionally - but he is no worse than most of the veterans, and considerably better than some.

Sometimes I just don't get it with this team....

 

[Captain Hook]

I prefer Bortuzzo in there on D and Engelland at forward. I liked that. Although I haven't broken down every shift of Bortuzzo's games like the coaches probably have. I guess it's possible there's some stuff there on tape that they just don't like. He's clearly in the doghouse for some reason.

I can't really complain with how Engelland has played in Bortuzzo's absence though. He's been fine. Bortuzzo is just a more talented D-Man than Engo which is why I like him in there.

 

[Crafton]

Bort trying to hide the tracks of his tears...

Seth Rorabaugh ‏@emptynetters 2m
Bortuzzo trying to stay upbeat w/ healthy scratches: "If ur going to get down about something like that, ur probably in the wrong business."

https://twitter.com/emptynetters/status/407577443289931776

looks like he won't be able to smile until we see the 'tears of a clown'

 

[Shady Machine]

I'm as disappointed as anyone that Borts isn't playing, but let's not get crazy here. This organization knows it's probably losing THREE out of their current top-6/7 Dmen: Niskanen, Orpik and Engelland.


Even if they re-sign one of those guys, there's still room for Bortuzzo going forward. I think this organization really does genuinely like Bortuzzo (how can you not?), and whether they're showcasing some of those other guys, or just think that they're icing their best 6 Dmen, I think that they envision Bortuzzo as part of the future going forward -- starting full time next season at the last (IMO, and I hope).

Not to call you out specifically, but I am beyond tired of this "showcasing" argument. When the hell has this team played a vet over a rookie to "showcase" them and then actually traded that player? It never happens. So Engelland, Niskanen, whoever the hell else is not playing over Bort, Despres etc to showcase them, they are playing over them because Bylsma has a hard on for vets.

 

[Shady Machine]

I prefer Bortuzzo in there on D and Engelland at forward. I liked that. Although I haven't broken down every shift of Bortuzzo's games like the coaches probably have. I guess it's possible there's some stuff there on tape that they just don't like. He's clearly in the doghouse for some reason.

I can't really complain with how Engelland has played in Bortuzzo's absence though. He's been fine. Bortuzzo is just a more talented D-Man than Engo which is why I like him in there.

There's nothing else there. Bylsma just loves his try hard vets.

 

[Til the End of Time]

bortuzzo should be an everyday player. hes been a big positive to the team in the vast majority of games that hes played in, and his mistakes have been relatively few and far between.

huge mistake that he is not playing now. trade niskanen or orpik, give bortuzzo experience now in these meaningless games so he'll be ready for the playoffs. im not convinced there even will be a drop off from niskanen/orpik to bortuzzo right now. and bortuzzo will surely continue to improve while niskanen/orpik are not getting any better.

to me, its very clear. none of the arguments against playing bortuzzo in every game have been even remotely compelling. its just a big mistake,.

 

[djt153]

yup, bortuzzo's upside and potential playoff utility far outweighs any growing pains in what are relatively meaningless regular season games. does anyone really believe that engelland wouldnt be capable of playing at his usual steady though underwhelming level if called upon in the playoffs after a fairly long layoff?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Engelland could stay fresh by playing a good bit, anyway. As a fourth line forward in between scratches. He could even be ready to fill in on D in case of injuries... though that's asking a lot.

Not sure why they pulled the plug so quickly on the Engo-at-forward experiment. I thought it was looking really good.

In any case... the baffling case of Robert Bortuzzo continues. They'll probably HS him all post season because he "lacks experience." Wonder why.