Robert Hagg Re-signs with the Flyers (report: 2 years at $1.15 million cap hit per season)

[BernieParent]

No matter how many times you say this, it doesn’t mean you speak for other people. You might as well get yourself a red HAGG hat.

This kind of, “The people who disagree with me just aren’t objective,” crap is devoid of substance and a sign you can’t make an actual argument. What an absolute joke of a stance.

HAGGA

 

[Tripod]

Please don’t assume my gender.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Only players I've ever hated in any sport are underachievers, dogs, and stupid players who refuse to learn.
Guys with limited talent who try hard I respect, doesn't mean I don't want to replace them, but as long as they're trying, they're Flyin'.

Guys who cherry pick to pad their stats, who don't hit, won't take a hit to get the puck, don't work hard on the forecheck, are lazy getting back, etc.
Those are the guys I hate no matter how talented.

Hatred is a destructive force, even in the limited and selective instances in which you are applying it. You should really try to rise above your feelings of hate and be more forgiving. Not trying to brag or anything, but that's what I do.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

(Inserts gif of men raising their glass)

 

[joez86]

Please don’t assume my gender.

"His" is the neutral singular possession pronoun, so how do you know he (neutral singular subject pronoun) assumed anything?

As for Hagg, let's all agree that we hope he shows improvement, and that it would be just as nice to have him in the pressbox or back in the AHL in favor of someone better.

 

[FLYguy3911]

By the way, I wrote article about Robert Hagg and his advanced, metrics stats. But that is in Czech, so sorry. But in fact, there are some numbers from him in this season:

CF%: 45,74 (worst between Dmen of Flyers)
Rel CF%: -6,07 (worst between Dmen of Flyers)
xGF%: 47,26 (worst between Dmen of Flyers)

Full article: here

Don't want to derail the GDT, but it's not even just a couple poor seasons. The guy can't string together one solid month. Hell even a guy like MacDonald can have a decent month of stats (or fluky season!).

You can say all you want about Corsi, but he hasn't had one single month, in his 12 month NHL career, close to break-even. You can't even even blame partners. He's played a bunch with one of the best first lines in hockey thanks to whatshisface, and has played extensive minutes with every defenseman on this team with the exception of Sanheim, and has flopped with every single one of them.

His -6.09 CF% rel over the last two seasons ranks 93 out of 94 defensemen with as many minutes. His -4.76 xGF% rel also ranks 93rd out of 94 defensemen over that time, so he is equally as bad when adjusting for quality. Quite simply, the guy is a plug. Fletch should do what Hextall didn't- sell high.

The PDO trend is interesting. Not because it is predictive, but because two years in a row it was high in the first half of the year and dipped in the second half. Perfect for a coach that values and hangs onto unsustainable, early season, goal results above everything else.

 

[FatTugboatFlahr]

What a ruthless bump. I thought Fletch screwed us.

 

[catbellysqueezer]

I didn't fall for this one and I am proud of myself

 

[deadhead]

Hagg is never going to have good Corsi numbers, but his performance is really partner dependent, and the pairing with Gudas is horrible.
He has done a solid job on the PK, and is a physical stay at home defensemen with some offensive skills (even with Ghost at ES scoring!)

The fact that Hagg consistently has decent +/- may have some merit, like MacDonald, he'll block shots and he also can clear the crease, so metrics like Corsi may not be good measures of value relative to an offensive defenseman. At some point +/- will even out, so when it doesn't, there's something else probably going on like scoring suppression.

Hagg will probably play 10 years on 3rd lines around the league, paired with a mobile RHD he'll be a solid contributor, but not someone you want to have to play big minutes. Teams with too many undersized mobile defensemen will value him for the edge he can bring a defense.

If Morin comes back and plays well, Hagg's days are probably numbers with the flood of LHDs arriving the next two years.
If Morin plays like a big stiff, get used to seeing Hagg around for another year or two.

 

[Lord Defect]

Don't want to derail the GDT, but it's not even that he just a couple poor seasons. The guy can't string together one solid month. Hell even a guy like MacDonald can have a decent month of stats (or fluky season!).

You can say all you want about Corsi, but he hasn't had one single month, in his 12 month NHL career, close to break-even. You can't even even blame partners. He's played a bunch with one of the first lines in hockey thanks to whatshisface, and has played extensive minutes with every defenseman on this team with the exception of Sanheim, and has flopped with every single one of them.

His -6.09 CF% rel over the last two seasons ranks 93 out of 94 defensemen with as many minutes. His -4.76 xGF% rel also ranks 93rd out of 94 defensemen over that time, so he is equally as bad when adjusting for quality. Quite simply, the guy is a plug. Fletch should do what Hextall didn't- sell high.

The PDO trend is interesting. Not because it is predictive, but because two years in a row it was high in the first half of the year and dipped in the second half. Perfect for a coach that values and hangs onto unsustainable, early season, goal results above everything else.

Thanks for the heart attack.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Don't want to derail the GDT, but it's not even that he just a couple poor seasons. The guy can't string together one solid month. Hell even a guy like MacDonald can have a decent month of stats (or fluky season!).

You can say all you want about Corsi, but he hasn't had one single month, in his 12 month NHL career, close to break-even. You can't even even blame partners. He's played a bunch with one of the first lines in hockey thanks to whatshisface, and has played extensive minutes with every defenseman on this team with the exception of Sanheim, and has flopped with every single one of them.

His -6.09 CF% rel over the last two seasons ranks 93 out of 94 defensemen with as many minutes. His -4.76 xGF% rel also ranks 93rd out of 94 defensemen over that time, so he is equally as bad when adjusting for quality. Quite simply, the guy is a plug. Fletch should do what Hextall didn't- sell high.

The PDO trend is interesting. Not because it is predictive, but because two years in a row it was high in the first half of the year and dipped in the second half. Perfect for a coach that values and hangs onto unsustainable, early season, goal results above everything else.

I'm not a Corsi guy (in a sense of looking at the numbers with much interest) but I'm not surprised at all. He is certainly bad as far as the eyeball test and his play in any situation outside of being serviceable on the PK at times.

Nice work

 

[Striiker]

Trash player.

I have no clue why some can't see it.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Trash player.

I have no clue why some can't see it.

Aren't the Hagg supporters mostly the trade Ghost advocators? That probably explains it in some nonsensical way.

 

[Striiker]

Aren't the Hagg supporters mostly the trade Ghost advocators? That probably explains it in some nonsensical way.

Many are, yeah.

Mostly people who have an outdated view of hockey and think defensemen are supposed to be big, dumb, no skill, goons and can't accept that scoring matters in a game where scoring is literally the entire point.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Many are, yeah.

Mostly people who have an outdated view of hockey and think defensemen are supposed to be big, dumb, no skill, goons and can't accept that scoring matters in a game where scoring is literally the entire point.

Yep. The old intangibles argument. Conveniently, that can't be measured with corsi/stats and the eye ball test

 

[Audible Velvet]

The last two months on that chart! Brutal. Poor Hagger. I have been hoping for a trade for a while because I think his perceived is likely relatively high to someone out there.

 

[deadhead]

It's not intangibles, you need physical defensemen to clear the crease, every team wants to put a body in front of the goaltender to hinder his puck vision and try and deflect shots - and defensemen like Ghost aren't going to move these guys out, even Gudas struggles a bit because while tough, he just isn't that big.

Hagg is limited, but how many teams have, and can afford, six top puck moving defensemen?
There will always be a role in the NHL for players like Hagg. Despite what some suggest, no team is going to field six smurf defensemen.
Look at the size of TB's defense, for example.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

Hagg as a 6/7 D who's decent on the PK. He can clear the net in that role. He is overplayed and is often on the ice with G. Lol

That's why we get frustrated with him. He's not reliable getting the puck out, reading plays, etc..

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Aren't the Hagg supporters mostly the trade Ghost advocators? That probably explains it in some nonsensical way.

The “Hagg supporters” simply say teams need cheap bottom pairing defensemen & most of the league would be happy with him at his price. Just look how bad & overpriced many defensemen are around the league.

No one is claiming he’s anything special. I’ve said from the beginning that I wouldn’t care if the Flyers’ traded him.

This is considered unreasonable levels of support by many posters.

You also have a contingent of Corsi-obsessed posters who dream of a D entirely consisting of small puck movers with good Corsis, ignoring that 1) Corsi is far from a magic measure of player value; 2) Corsi ignores the Penalty Kill, a huge portion of the modern game where you’re going to get stuck defending extended stretches in the D zone against huge, strong players in the crease & on the wall; & 3) player deployment has a significant impact on Corsi, hence why Sanheim’s has plummeted in going from sheltered deployment to top pairing deployment.

If you have 6 little puck movers, some are going to have to play much more difficult defensive minutes than before, & suddenly their Corsis aren’t looking so good.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

The “Hagg supporters” simply say teams need cheap bottom pairing defensemen & most of the league would be happy with him at his price. Just look how bad & overpriced many defensemen are around the league.

No one is claiming he’s anything special. I’ve said from the beginning that I wouldn’t care if the Flyers’ traded him.

This is considered unreasonable levels of support by many posters.

You also have a contingent of Corsi-obsessed posters who dream of a D entirely consisting of small puck movers with good Corsis, ignoring that 1) Corsi is far from a magic measure of player value; 2) Corsi ignores the Penalty Kill, a huge portion of the modern game where you’re going to get stuck defending extended stretches in the D zone against huge, strong players in the crease & on the wall; & 3) player deployment has a significant impact on Corsi, hence why Sanheim’s has plummeted in going from sheltered deployment to top pairing deployment.

If you have 6 little puck movers, some are going to have to play much more difficult defensive minutes than before, & suddenly their Corsis aren’t looking so good.

My post above yours sums up my opinion on him. If you also think he's nothing special, we mostly agree.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

My post above yours sums up my opinion on him. If you also think he's nothing special, we mostly agree.

He’s cheap depth defenseman all teams need. It would be nice to ice 6 really good defensemen, but it’s not feasible.

He’s not more gifted than Ghost. But with Ghost, I think you can get wayyyy more in return, & if I’m right I think it’s worthwhile because I think he’s overrated.

Personally I think Ghost has a spell over many fans’ eyes because of what he’s done in the past. They don’t see all of his poor play this year. And when it gets pointed out they don’t want to hear it because it threatens their worldview, so to speak.

I was Ghost’s biggest fan in his rookie season. I probably cut him too much slack & wanted to make excuses for most of his 2nd season. I loved him last season. But this season he’s been a wreck way, way too often. I can’t deny my eyes; it’s reality. If he were pulling an Ozolinsh & scoring, it’s one thing. But he’s not.

At some point fans are going to take a bite of the apple & start to see Ghost for what he’s been all season instead of living in blissful ignorance.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

He’s cheap depth defenseman all teams need. It would be nice to ice 6 really good defensemen, but it’s not feasible.

He’s not more gifted than Ghost. But with Ghost, I think you can get wayyyy more in return, & if I’m right I think it’s worthwhile because I think he’s overrated.

Personally I think Ghost has a spell over many fans’ eyes because of what he’s done in the past. They don’t see all of his poor play this year. And when it gets pointed out they don’t want to hear it because it threatens their worldview, so to speak.

I was Ghost’s biggest fan in his rookie season. I probably cut him too much slack & wanted to make excuses for most of his 2nd season. I loved him last season. But this season he’s been a wreck way, way too often. I can’t deny my eyes; it’s reality. If he were pulling an Ozolinsh & scoring, it’s one thing. But he’s not.

At some point fans are going to take a bite of the apple & start to see Ghost for what he’s been all season instead of living in blissful ignorance.

Eh, I can admit he's had his share of bone head plays. He had an egregious one today. He misses the freaking net a lot more than he should too.

I do "downplay" his errors as I would Provy, Sanheim, NP..etc. Young players who are highly skilled and will bounce back. It would be different if he had never shown it at the NHL level and we were just talking potential.

I agree with you his value is significantly higher than Hagg's. I still don't want to trade him.

 

[Striiker]

Eh, I can admit he's had his share of bone head plays. He had an egregious one today. He misses the freaking net a lot more than he should too.

I do "downplay" his errors as I would Provy, Sanheim, NP..etc. Young players who are highly skilled and will bounce back. It would be different if he had never shown it at the NHL level and we were just talking potential.

I agree with you his value is significantly higher than Hagg's. I still don't want to trade him.

I keep seeing different people mention that Ghosts value is high as if that's a reason to trade him...

Couturiers value is pretty high. I guess we should trade him too?

Forget that we can't replace him and he's one of our best players, we'd get a lot back and that's all that matters. Change for the sake of change, forget what it does to make the team worse.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Eh, I can admit he's had his share of bone head plays. He had an egregious one today. He misses the freaking net a lot more than he should too.

I do "downplay" his errors as I would Provy, Sanheim, NP..etc. Young players who are highly skilled and will bounce back. It would be different if he had never shown it at the NHL level and we were just talking potential.

I agree with you his value is significantly higher than Hagg's. I still don't want to trade him.

Reasonable post. I’ll add that I don’t want to trade Ghost just to trade him. I think he’s their best trade chip, but I’m not giving him away.

 

[Outlaw Samurai]

I keep seeing different people mention that Ghosts value is high as if that's a reason to trade him...

Couturiers value is pretty high. I guess we should trade him too?

Forget that we can't replace him and he's one of our best players, we'd get a lot back and that's all that matters. Change for the sake of change, forget what it does to make the team worse.

Exactly. Keep our core and Ghost is a big and irreplaceable part going forward.
Do not trade!