Robert Hagg Re-signs with the Flyers (report: 2 years at $1.15 million cap hit per season)

[Lindberg]

People are really complaining about a guy who signed a 2 year, 1.15 million contract? Worse case you bury the guy and best case he out plays your #6. I really see no problems.

 

[FLYguy3911]

It's not like the defensemen drafted a couple of spots before him or even past round two are exactly tearing it up right now.

How many of the prospects taken after him are clearly better than Hägg at this stage of their carreers?
Brett Pesce. That's it.

... maybe it takes more time to develop until we see a clear picture.

You could make an argument that it's better to draft a flat out BUST than draft a guy like Robert Hagg who fools you into thinking he's actually an NHL caliber player

...unless you know when to sell high on that player.

Haggs 1st, 3rd, and 4th most common forwards were Voracek, Couturier, and Giroux. 300+ minutes with each.

That, in addition to lots of time with Provorov and Ghost, surely saved his advanced stats from properly reflecting how horrible he was.

Nope. They didn't sadly.

 

[Striiker]

Nope. They didn't sadly.

And just think how much worse they’d look without our stars dominating all year.

 

[Striiker]

People are really complaining about a guy who signed a 2 year, 1.15 million contract? Worse case you bury the guy and best case he out plays your #6. I really see no problems.

If there was any chance he would actually be used like the #7 we hope he can someday improve enough to become, there would be far less complaints.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

You being so emotional, didactical and aggressive about it seems to be some sort of proof that I was right though. Never have even said I was an admirer of Hägg. Just defended him against over-the-top criticizm like "This deal is worse than the one with Weise".

Or that I strongly dislike stances where one tells others how they arrived at a conclusion from a dishonest angle. It's meaningless at best and destructive to a respectful discourse at worst.

It's not about being correct. It's about not being a jerk. And yes, I dislike it as much when I agree with the end result.

 

[FLYguy3911]

	xGF%rel	CF%rel	Games Played
OCT	-11.01	-6.65	12
NOV	0.27	-4.57	13
DEC	-1.74	-8.99	13
JAN	0.69	-6.30	12
FEB	-3.59	-2.93	13
MAR	-12.73	-9.53	7
TOTAL	-3.90	-6.11	70

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I would love to see these stats that showed he got better as the season went along and his role decreased and that he was comparable to other "3rd pairing defensemen" in the league. Those are the numbers of a below replacement level player.

 

[BernieParent]

How many 6th defensemen are good at anything?
Reality check, you can't even find 180 defensemen who stayed on the ice for 10 minutes a night 5x5 for a whole season.
You expect your bottom defensemen to have meh stats and performance, or they wouldn't be your bottom defensemen (unless your roster is incredibly stacked).

Why on earth should Hextall adhere to this oversimplified standard when he has the very real option for a stacked defense? I agree with your earlier statement about pushing high-potential prospects harder to maximize their output, but not to the extremes in play-or-sit thresholds. Your argument is circular: since the league-wide average 6th defenseman position is mediocre, let's be satisfied with mediocrity. The NHL should be a meritocracy, not an Affirmative Action program. Myers and Sanheim shouldn't have to play like Provorov to earn a roster spot; they should have to a) play well and b) better than 2 of the 6 Dmen (not counting Folin, who seems to be the Designated Sitter) in contention for the Flyers roster.

But we know that it cannot be purely a question of the 6/7 best Dmen on the roster and the rest report to the AHL. Contract considerations and waiver rules create a competitive imbalance that only amplifies where the coach and GM put the goalposts. Factor in the general dissatisfaction of Hakstol's vision of roster priorities and I have all but written off Myers' chance of seeing NHL ice this season barring at least 2 injuries to the D corps.

 

[BernieParent]

Serious question: Should people who support Hagg be allowed to have food and water?

Counter-question: if we agreed that the answer is 'no', would you still be fat?

 

[Pantokrator]

You’re right, I don’t like horrible players and I don’t see why I’d suddenly start.

So it is not that you are against Hagg, you are against bad players regardless of who they are and where they play. I can live with this.

To be sure then, there are players on every team that you hate, and you are never going to be happy with every player on a roster because undoubtedly some will not be good based on supply and demand. I'm OK with this.

 

[hatcher]

No kidding. People need to have some perspective and some patience. We drafted a good young all-around Dman, urged him to skip a Swedish apprenticeship and come to AHL early - when he could still have played Jr. over there. He does everything the team asks, works on his game in the A and finally gets a chance to play. He has a solid rookie year, staying within his role and providing a valuable service by being one of the only Dmen providing any physical presence at all on a soft team. He showed signs of being able to contribute more offensively too.

For most teams, this kind of progress and development would be applauded and fans would have hopes that he can continue to improve with more NHL experience. But not for Flyers' fans, no, he sucks on some fancy stats so let's get rid of him. What a dumb attitude, especially as concerns a team with several steaming piles of garbage in the lineup (Macdonald, Weise, Lehtera, Elliott, Neuvirth) and behind the bench. Instead, everyone is obsessing about a rookie Dman we should be happy to have, as most teams would be.

I like Hagg, I respect his commitment, attitude, professionalism and effort, and I wish him well in the upcoming season. If it turns out we eventually have too many good young D to keep him, so be it. We can trade him then or offer him up in the Expansion Draft. He's going to have a nice, long, successful NHL career. Please pass the bread and water. LOL!

Great post.

 

[freakydallas13]

Out of the 162 defensemen who played 800 minutes 5x5 (10 minutes a game), there were at least 10 who had worse seasons statistically than Hagg.

Being 152nd out of 162 doesn't scream "decent defenceman" to me, personally.

 

[FLYguy3911]

Being 152nd out of 162 doesn't scream "decent defenceman" to me, personally.

On the Brandon Manning grading scale it is.

 

[Striiker]

So it is not that you are against Hagg, you are against bad players regardless of who they are and where they play. I can live with this.

To be sure then, there are players on every team that you hate, and you are never going to be happy with every player on a roster because undoubtedly some will not be good based on supply and demand. I'm OK with this.

No, I love bad players on other teams. It’s when the bad player is on the Flyers that I hate them.

A bad opponent can help us win as much as one of our good players.

 

[freakydallas13]

Counter-question: if we agreed that the answer is 'no', would you still be fat?

I thought this was mean, then I saw his username

 

[BernieParent]

Bottom line: there are 7 slots for defensemen on the Flyers. Realistically, they have 8 players to fill them. 1 player will have to go to the Phantoms or get traded. What are the exclusion criteria for that 8th player?

Once the 7 defensemen are chosen, 6 will play the majority of games (barring injuries), as Hakstol has not shown that he employs a rotational approach. How do you decide the pairings and pair rankings?

 

[Pantokrator]

No, I love bad players on other teams. It’s when the bad player is on the Flyers that I hate them.

A bad opponent can help us win as much as one of our good players.

Lol, I get it, but I mean if those players were on the Flyers you would hate them with as much passion as you do Hagg. I just like the consistency. That is really all I want in people.

 

[deadhead]

Why on earth should Hextall adhere to this oversimplified standard when he has the very real option for a stacked defense? I agree with your earlier statement about pushing high-potential prospects harder to maximize their output, but not to the extremes in play-or-sit thresholds. Your argument is circular: since the league-wide average 6th defenseman position is mediocre, let's be satisfied with mediocrity. The NHL should be a meritocracy, not an Affirmative Action program. Myers and Sanheim shouldn't have to play like Provorov to earn a roster spot; they should have to a) play well and b) better than 2 of the 6 Dmen (not counting Folin, who seems to be the Designated Sitter) in contention for the Flyers roster.

But we know that it cannot be purely a question of the 6/7 best Dmen on the roster and the rest report to the AHL. Contract considerations and waiver rules create a competitive imbalance that only amplifies where the coach and GM put the goalposts. Factor in the general dissatisfaction of Hakstol's vision of roster priorities and I have all but written off Myers' chance of seeing NHL ice this season barring at least 2 injuries to the D corps.

Myers and Sanheim are going to be held to higher standards because they're going to have higher paydays in a couple years, if they're put up nice scoring stats but are defensive liabilities you have to trade them rather than overpay them relative to their actual contribution to winning.

They have to play like Provorov in the sense of playing a 200 foot game, they're not going to be as instinctive defensively as Provorov, but a lot of defense is effort and focus, you could see that in Sanheim when he returned, instead of lollygagging in the O-zone, he started skating as hard to get back as he did to get up ice. If they do this, there will be no question of their PT, if they don't, other than benching them, how do you motivate them to improve? Their PT is up to them, if Sanheim and Myers play up to their talent, they'll play 20+ minutes a night.

All you expect from guys like Hagg and Folin is that they become efficient in their roles, take the body, clear the puck out of the D-zone, be a force around the net on the PK, make good use of your 13-15 minutes a night. Hagg did improve last season until he got hurt in February and his play fell off (I suspect the rookie wall also had something to do with it, juniors and AHL is 60-70 games then playoffs with breaks between games, NHL can had some tough 4 game a week stretches in February and March that are leg killers).

 

[Striiker]

Lol, I get it, but I mean if those players were on the Flyers you would hate them with as much passion as you do Hagg. I just like the consistency. That is really all I want in people.

Yes, absolutely.

Just like I hated Manning when he was here, but now I'm excited to see him again! Same with Filppula. When they come back as opponents I know they're two players who will assist us in beating their teams. I also eagerly await to be able to read the Hawks and Isles boards and see the same pain and sadness they inflicted on us when they were Flyers.

It's no coincidence that the guys I complain about most on here are people who are just awful hockey players. Over the past couple of years my hate had been directed at guys like Hagg, Manning, Filppula, Lehtera, Grossmann, Lecavalier, Vandevelde, Streit (during his last season here when he was horrible), and other guys like that.

 

[deadhead]

Only players I've ever hated in any sport are underachievers, dogs, and stupid players who refuse to learn.
Guys with limited talent who try hard I respect, doesn't mean I don't want to replace them, but as long as they're trying, they're Flyin'.

Guys who cherry pick to pad their stats, who don't hit, won't take a hit to get the puck, don't work hard on the forecheck, are lazy getting back, etc.
Those are the guys I hate no matter how talented.

 

[Lindberg]

If there was any chance he would actually be used like the #7 we hope he can someday improve enough to become, there would be far less complaints.

I can't control what moron Hakstol does. His usage and contract are mutually exclusive.

 

[captainpaxil]

This is a kid who went from ppqb at the wjc to the king of "put it up the glass rook" some of it is adjusting to the play at higher levels but it makes me curious about his coaching and professional development. At 23 i think theres still the possibility to restore confidence in and develop his play with the puck. You do that by giving him opponents he can do that against and forwards who are defensively responsible. A sheltered hagg will not just look better but improve. Will hak do this? I dunno. I think theres definitely still upside to the kid whether or not we see it is up to the coach.

 

[Striiker]

I can't control what moron Hakstol does. His usage and contract are mutually exclusive.

The contract enables the usage.

Can't play him if he isn't here.

 

[nuclear reactor]

Counter-question: if we agreed that the answer is 'no', would you still be fat?

I’m a typical ignorant Hagg supporter in an incestuous relationship with my first cousin, so I’m too stupid to decipher the answer to your question.

 

[nuclear reactor]

I thought this was mean, then I saw his username

Please don’t assume my gender.

 

[Lindberg]

Please don’t assume my gender.

It's Pat?