Speculation: Robert Hägg

[Striiker]

One of the big improvements in Hagg this year is that he far more heavily defers to his partners.

That being less involved ends up being a big positive for the team is not a good omen. The team is better served by having someone who can be involved and effective.

Absolutely. We need guys who can do ANYTHING to help the team win, whether that's offensively, defensively, or in transition. Best case scenario being that someone survives their shifts and doesn't lose you the game by themselves is just not good enough.

We have better options for the 2nd and 3rd pair, so there's no "tHeY hAd nO cHoIcE" excuses for him to be on the team anymore.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Hagg has been perfectly fine for his 6/7 role since he returned from injury. I don't know why people continue to harp on him. He's not supposed to be good. He's supposed to be cheap depth who is better than AHL call-ups. Seattle will gladly scoop him up in the expansion draft.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg’s been a much better possession player this season but his chance metrics are closer to breaking even/below 50%.

Obviously a low bar but it’s considerably better than what they’ve generally produced with him on the ice. But you can absolutely still improve upon even that. It’s tough to say that it’s even the new norm for him anyway given every else we’ve seen in previous years.

Contrary to popular belief you can get guys that absolutely kill it in third pairing roles but some are just content with chalking it up to whatever when they get killed or break even at best.

 

[Rebels57]

I'd say we have indeed been in trouble this year, yes. Ideally Provorov should be clearly better as well as Sanheim.

Sanheim and Myers in March were playing some of the worst hockey I have ever seen.

 

[deadhead]

I cant help but wonder if the people who are willing to invalidate Haggs 200+ games of below replacement play are willing to also admit that Laughton is an overpaid, 9 point 4th liner. After all, over that same sample, Laughton has regressed pretty tremendously, so...good for the goose, good for the gander, no?

Oh, I'm also curious how Sanheim after 200 games played "is what he is" but Hagg is having this crazy metamorphosis ( and make no mistake, him going from ECHL level to passable #7 is a ridiculous metamorphosis) and were all supposed to just believe he's turned a corner?

I love when people blow holes in their own logic.

Maybe some people should shelf their prejudices against certain players?

Laughton since Tahoe, CF 52.26%, CFrel -1.09, xGF 54.43%, xGFrel +3.56, on-ice Sh 5.17%, Sh 5.36%
Doesn't take a genius to figure both the Sh% of him and his linemates are likely to regress to the mean. Which means at some point he'll go back to scoring around his norm of the last few seasons - these things even out.

Same reason I don't give up on Patrick, he has an on-ice Sh of 3.20% and Sh of 3.13%.
These are unsustainably low. And his 4th line linemates are pretty talented, Lindblom, Allison/NAK

2019-20 on-ice SH%: Pitlick 12.53, Laughton 11.65, NAK 10.29, Raffl 8.78, TK 8.16, Hayes 8.08,
2018-19 on-ice SH%: Laughton 8.93, Patrick 8.49, Lindblom 8.42, Raffl 8.29, Simmonds 6.68, Knight 5.12
2017-18 on-ice SH%: Raffl 10.20, Filppula 7.78, Simmonds 7.56, Patrick 7.25, Weal 7.17, Lindblom 6.68, Leier 6.62, Weise 6.27, Lehtera 4.47, Laughton 3.81, Read 1.70

On the other hand, Hagg's advanced metrics aren't the product of luck or even his partners, CFrel +1.06, xGFrel +3.74 since Tahoe.
That is, the team plays better with him on the ice.
As I've pointed out, he's probably being sheltered a bit and gets a boost from that, but I don't know how to confirm that.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sanheim and Myers in March were playing some of the worst hockey I have ever seen.

Sanheim was still doing a lot of normally responsible stuff but it was overshadowed by some massive failings. Myers deconstructed entirely into a pile of goo and Sanheim had to deal with that to boot, which he wasn't gonna do successfully while trying to keep himself afloat. More than a few of Sanheim's errors were caused by trying to cover for Myers doing lord knows what while our forwards were MIA. He was presented with a lot of situations where there was no winning decision but he didn't handle it well and often chose the losingest option.

All while both of them were under siege in a garbage system that routinely puts D and G in bad spots. I applaud AV for his "only way out is through" approach where he let them play through it but the total lack of adjustment to help them is a failure on his part.

March was real bad.

 

[Rebels57]

Sanheim was still doing a lot of normally responsible stuff but it was overshadowed by some massive failings. Myers deconstructed entirely into a pile of goo and Sanheim had to deal with that to boot, which he wasn't gonna do successfully while trying to keep himself afloat. More than a few of Sanheim's errors were caused by trying to cover for Myers doing lord knows what while our forwards were MIA. He was presented with a lot of situations where there was no winning decision but he didn't handle it well and often chose the losingest option.

All while both of them were under siege in a garbage system that routinely puts D and G in bad spots. I applaud AV for his "only way out is through" approach where he let them play through it but the total lack of adjustment to help them is a failure on his part.

March was real bad.

March may have been the worst month in Flyers history. I mean, we set a record for Goals Against.

 

[Striiker]

Sanheim was still doing a lot of normally responsible stuff but it was overshadowed by some massive failings. Myers deconstructed entirely into a pile of goo and Sanheim had to deal with that to boot, which he wasn't gonna do successfully while trying to keep himself afloat. More than a few of Sanheim's errors were caused by trying to cover for Myers doing lord knows what while our forwards were MIA. He was presented with a lot of situations where there was no winning decision but he didn't handle it well and often chose the losingest option.

All while both of them were under siege in a garbage system that routinely puts D and G in bad spots. I applaud AV for his "only way out is through" approach where he let them play through it but the total lack of adjustment to help them is a failure on his part.

March was real bad.

On top of that, any small mistake will instantly be blown up into a much bigger deal if it goes into the net.

If we have NHL goaltending, the view of Sanheims rough patch is drastically different.

 

[Starat327]

Some people should shelve their prejudices.

Holy shit. Hello Pot.

 

[renberg]

It seems to me that some people have their favorites on defense and are ticked when they don't play. When that happens they they target other players a being inferior to their chosen star and look to anything, usually including stats, that they think are favorable, to prove their point that players X sucks and player Z should be in the lineup. Of course the questionable use of players by AV & Co. doesn't help resolve the question as to who are the best six for any given night.

 

[Striiker]

It's not that people randomly pick players to be their favorites and then say they're good. They see who's good and then those players become favorites.

Obviously some fans go against this because they're staff shills or susceptible to media/team propaganda, but it applies to most reasonable people.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Morin does all the things that you hope a #6 will do, while also realizing he is a #6 and not try to do stuff he can't do. Sure, he will mess up sometimes, but it's expected

Hagg is the opposite. He'll make a good play once in awhile, but constantly makes dumb plays. He doesn't play odd man rushes well, his hits take himself out of the play, he leaves guys wide open in front, and he constantly ices the puck for no reason

 

[renberg]

Morin does all the things that you hope a #6 will do, while also realizing he is a #6 and not try to do stuff he can't do. Sure, he will mess up sometimes, but it's expected

What I am noticing is that when SM is on the ice, the opponents seem to want to work around him. His size and strength aren't necessarily measurable skills stat wise but they're there. SM is not the best skater, passer, shooter, etc. but his presence does impact play. You can see that his head is working when he's out there. Most noticeably trying not to get caught out of position. If he can keep the gaffes down to a minimum, he's a solid third pairing guy.

 

[Deadpool8812]

What I am noticing is that when SM is on the ice, the opponents seem to want to work around him. His size and strength aren't necessarily measurable skills stat wise but they're there. SM is not the best skater, passer, shooter, etc. but his presence does impact play. You can see that his head is working when he's out there. Most noticeably trying not to get caught out of position. If he can keep the gaffes down to a minimum, he's a solid third pairing guy.

I find he's quite good at making simple plays (i.e., getting body position and chipping the puck out off the boards) as opposed to Hagg, who will try to do something above his skillset and in turn, give the puck away or ice it for no reason

 

[deadhead]

Morin has a xGF of 40.61% since he returned as a defenseman. If Hagg put that up you'd all be screaming how awful he is.
Hagg's worst season was 43.95%.

Now I feel that's a bit misleading with Morin, he's rusty, he's still developing confidence in his knees, and should improve next season.
On the other hand, he actually wanders out of position MORE than Hagg, he has a tendency to drift, especially in the neutral zone, maybe b/c he's a little overeager and can get caught chasing the puck.
Again, something that will probably settle down over time and game experience.

On the other hand, Morin clearly brings a unique physical presence, which is why I expect them to keep him around as the #7 D-man and hope he develops into a solid 3rd pair guy.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Hagg & Morin both stink. You can do better than both of them.

 

[deadhead]

Hagg & Morin both stink. You can do better than both of them.

And worse. I remember Manning.

 

[wankstifier]

I preferred Manning

 

[Striiker]

Manning and Hagg are horrible.

Morin sucks too, but he’s less aggravating to watch because he doesn’t think he’s Makar, like those other two do. He’s not pinching constantly and causing odd man rushes against.

 

[BritainStix]

Probably because one side is objectively wrong and exclusively makes dishonest statements to defend the hill they've chosen to die on, which always contradict both the eye test and stats.

No more lies, no more corrections.

I tried having a direct conversation, and the poster instead just wanted to lie and make arguments only applicable to players in which they didn't or did have an agenda. Being truthful around here appears to be a lost art.

There's an extremely easy way for you to not have to see either side of the argument, as well.

Then if you can't see that you are being objectively trolled, then more fool you. As has been proven multiple times....

It's not your job to police opinions or to submit "corrections". Everyone else has this magical ability to ignore these clowns. But you constantly engage with them.

As for your suggestion to use the ignore feature. We can't, the entire forum can't ignore you because it's every f***ing thread. But you both tread the line so carefully that you don't necessarily break the golden rules.

They are clowns, but you guys just need to grow the f*** up and use the ignore function. Literally no one else engages with them. Fml.

 

[BritainStix]

And f*** AV too.

 

[Starat327]

Then if you can't see that you are being objectively trolled, then more fool you. As has been proven multiple times....

It's not your job to police opinions or to submit "corrections". Everyone else has this magical ability to ignore these clowns. But you constantly engage with them.

As for your suggestion to use the ignore feature. We can't, the entire forum can't ignore you because it's every f***ing thread. But you both tread the line so carefully that you don't necessarily break the golden rules.

They are clowns, but you guys just need to grow the f*** up and use the ignore function. Literally no one else engages with them. Fml.

I just want to make sure I have this straight:

You're posting about people not ignoring other people because you're tired of seeing people engage with those people who should be ignored. That sound about right?

And...you don't see the problem there?

Sounds like "then more fool you", no? - I'm assuming that's a local saying but I think I understand it.



No it's not my job to police the forums. The mods do a good enough job of that on their own. But let's pretend for a second I just start telling everyone that you're not Welsh, that you're actually Scottish. Are you going to correct me, or just let me continue to call you Scottish?

 

[JXC]

Hagg has been perfectly fine for his 6/7 role since he returned from injury. I don't know why people continue to harp on him. He's not supposed to be good. He's supposed to be cheap depth who is better than AHL call-ups. Seattle will gladly scoop him up in the expansion draft.

Hagg is fine as a third pairing guy.

 

[BritainStix]

I just want to make sure I have this straight:

You're posting about people not ignoring other people because you're tired of seeing people engage with those people who should be ignored. That sound about right?

And...you don't see the problem there?

Sounds like "then more fool you", no? - I'm assuming that's a local saying but I think I understand it.



No it's not my job to police the forums. The mods do a good enough job of that on their own. But let's pretend for a second I just start telling everyone that you're not Welsh, that you're actually Scottish. Are you going to correct me, or just let me continue to call you Scottish?

I'm going to put that person on ignore, as they are obviously trolling, as you guys are obviously getting trolled each time you retaliate....

 

[Starat327]

I'm going to put that person on ignore, as they are obviously trolling, as you guys are obviously getting trolled each time you retaliate....

It's easy for me to avoid trolls. The problem with the people I respond to is they aren't trolling. They're actually dumb enough to believe they're right.