Rob Ray suing the NHLPA

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Pepper

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Aug 30, 2004
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Bicycle Repairman said:
What if your comments are carried by wire services and printed/broadcast in over 600 outlets?

What if your statements are taken out of the context, misquoted etc? Atleast the employer would have to call him and ask whether he's quitting or not.

Imagine a player going through the emotions after a lost play-off series and giving emotianally loaded statements like "I'm done" or "I'm not going to play again" without really considering it? Is it ok for NHLPA decide the very moment they see those comments that he's retired without even contacting the player?

I don't think so.
 

Buffaloed

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Bicycle Repairman said:
Not at all. The contradictory comments sink him further. What's to make of Rob Ray now? Certainly he's lost credibility with his peers. Too bad really. To think a former King Clancy Award winner is reduced to weaseling. What's his take after he pays his lawyer? (Ooops, maybe he's not the one paying his lawyer!).

Quite a few players (including Rob Ray once before) have publically stated they're retiring only to come back. That's hardly grounds for character assassination. The fact that no player has singled out Rob Ray for criticism, while others who have spoken out against union policy have been criticized speaks volumes about the degree of respect he has from his peers. You're not a player. Don't presume to speak for them.
 

A Good Flying Bird*

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Buffaloed said:
The fact that no player has singled out Rob Ray for criticism, while others who have spoken out against union policy have been criticized speaks volumes about the degree of respect he has from his peers. You're not a player. Don't presume to speak for them.

I think it's safe to assume that Ray has hurt his standing in the minds of many NHLers.
When unions go out, they count on solidarity. It's the only leverage they have. Rob Ray's actions hurt the union's position, and they threaten what what the players have been trying to accomplish (regardless of what you or I might think of their goals).
So yeah, it's fair to say that Ray will probably lose friends over this.
Perhaps not, as we really don't know.
But it's a fair supposition, I think. Especially when you consider that many players have come out and said what they think of players who might cross the line.

As for the "you're not a player, don't presume to speak for them," well, this board is filled with posts by people presuming to do just that, whether it is the owners or players.
 

PecaFan

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Bicycle Repairman said:
What if your comments are carried by wire services and printed/broadcast in over 600 outlets?

Thinking something, and doing something are *totally* different. It makes no difference how many people hear your thoughts. That's all they are.

I'm thinking of robbing a bank. Is this 1984? Are the thought police coming around to get me?

Thoughts and statements are not actions.
 

Pepper

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Rob Ray is a very respected player and his comments carry more weight than his status as a player should, mainly because of his strong team-first attitude but also because of the job he does.

When he speaks out against the NHLPA, many players will hear the message. NHLPA is doing it's best damage control to limit that effect but fact is that lots of players look up to players like Ray who's a long-time veteran protecting his teammates in the hardest job of all professional sports.

I for one applaud Ray's actions, it speaks volumes about his character. Atleast as much as NHLPA's actions against him...
 

YellHockey*

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PecaFan said:
Thinking something, and doing something are *totally* different. It makes no difference how many people hear your thoughts. That's all they are.

Try mixing the word "bomb" into your thoughts out loud next time you're at the airport and see what happens.

Of course, I'm sure you'll get off with that "law degree" of yours.
 

Loki

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BlackRedGold said:
Try mixing the word "bomb" into your thoughts out loud next time you're at the airport and see what happens.

Of course, I'm sure you'll get off with that "law degree" of yours.

WTF! Dude I understand you are pro-NHLPA but that is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a while...

Welcome to my ignore list :)
 

YellHockey*

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Loki said:
WTF! Dude I understand you are pro-NHLPA but that is one of the dumbest things I have heard in a while...

Welcome to my ignore list :)

Who are you?

And if you're not smart enough to figure out something as simple as an analogy, why would I care?
 

PecaFan

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BlackRedGold said:
Try mixing the word "bomb" into your thoughts out loud next time you're at the airport and see what happens.

Of course, I'm sure you'll get off with that "law degree" of yours.

Of course, some of us know that making bomb threats and jokes at an airport is actually breaking a law.

How about using your "law degree" to point out where the law says that press interviews about retirement are legally binding?
 

YellHockey*

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PecaFan said:
Of course, some of us know that making bomb threats and jokes at an airport is actually breaking a law.

But....

PecaFan said:
Thoughts and statements are not actions.



How about using your "law degree" to point out where the law says that press interviews about retirement are legally binding?

Unlike you, I've never claimed to have a "law degree" much less one from reading a legal statement. Just because you're delusional enough to try and misrepresent your educational background doesn't mean that your opponents will do the same thing.
 

Sammy*

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BlackRedGold said:
But....







Unlike you, I've never claimed to have a "law degree" much less one from reading a legal statement. Just because you're delusional enough to try and misrepresent your educational background doesn't mean that your opponents will do the same thing.
:dunce:

How bout using your outstanding intellect ( :lol: :lol: ) to answer the question & how it is analagous.
This should be good for a :lol: .
 
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Pepper

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Aug 30, 2004
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BlackRedGold said:
Try mixing the word "bomb" into your thoughts out loud next time you're at the airport and see what happens.

Of course, I'm sure you'll get off with that "law degree" of yours.

:shakehead

Stop humiliating yourself, every time you open your mouth you're just making yourself look dumber and dumber!!

If you can't understand the difference between Ray's comments andyour extremely moronic analogy, I really feel sorry for you.

How old are you anyway?
 

Bicycle Repairman

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PecaFan said:
Thoughts and statements are not actions.
Don't kid yourself. There's a war going on. If the guy next to you in the foxhole keeps whining about surrendering or defecting to the other side, chances are you or a commanding officer is going to blow his head off.
 

PecaFan

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BlackRedGold said:

"Thoughts and statements are not actions."

I said that about retirement, and other non-criminal behaviour. And it's true. Yes, there are certain statements that are deemed legally binding because they are criminal. Retirement is not one of them.

Unlike you, I've never claimed to have a "law degree" much less one from reading a legal statement. Just because you're delusional enough to try and misrepresent your educational background doesn't mean that your opponents will do the same thing.

I never claimed I had a law degree. I said I didn't have one, my legal opinion came from reading the legal decision and the relevant laws and applying common sense and intelligence.

And before you drag out my old quote, in that post I rabbit eared law degree, to show I didn't have one. I'll try and refrain from using such "complicated" communication devices in the future, since it's so confusing to folks such as yourself.

Let me guess, you're one of those "only certified people" can express informed opinions, right? You can only speak on the law if you have a law degree, you can only speak about hockey prospects if you're a scout or coach?
 

Steve L*

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Bicycle Repairman said:
Neither one of those fine gentlemen is a NHL player. Domi is.

Therefore my example is valid.
Its not when neither of the 3 people in question dont have a brain cell between them.

Its like calling on GW Bush quotes to back up your opinion on world policy.
 

mudcrutch79

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PecaFan said:
Let me guess, you're one of those "only certified people" can express informed opinions, right? You can only speak on the law if you have a law degree, you can only speak about hockey prospects if you're a scout or coach?

Peca, I generally like your posts, but this board would be better off if people refrained from commenting on legal issues if they don't have a legal background, beyond I like this or don't like that. It just creates confusion.
 

thinkwild

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No one is suggesting that Ray's statements about retiring are legally binding. His ability to receive a stipend isnt a legal issue. Its a discretionary one. Ray was promised by Goodenow that even guys like him and Messier would be covered. That was their discretion. That discretion changed. Is that discretion being legally challenged?
 

Buffaloed

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Some questions to ponder:

What happens to a player who hasn't said a word about retirement decides to retire when the lockout ends? Would he have to repay the money? James Patrick is a good possibility.

Are retirement benefits fully vested? If so, as the emergency fund dwindles we might be seeing a lot of older players filing retirement papers to collect their pension. Will they have to repay the lockout benefits?
 

mudcrutch79

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Buffaloed said:
Are retirement benefits fully vested? If so, as the emergency fund dwindles we might be seeing a lot of older players filing retirement papers to collect their pension. Will they have to repay the lockout benefits?

Interesting question. What's an NHL pension worth, anyway?
 

Bicycle Repairman

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Steve L said:
Its not when neither of the 3 people in question dont have a brain cell between them.

Its like calling on GW Bush quotes to back up your opinion on world policy.

Tie Domi is a NHL player, and whether you like it or not, his opinion holds sway.
 

txomisc

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Buffaloed said:
Some questions to ponder:

What happens to a player who hasn't said a word about retirement decides to retire when the lockout ends? Would he have to repay the money? James Patrick is a good possibility.

Are retirement benefits fully vested? If so, as the emergency fund dwindles we might be seeing a lot of older players filing retirement papers to collect their pension. Will they have to repay the lockout benefits?
i would hope not
afterall they certainly could have fully intended to play this upcoming season and retire after that
 

Bicycle Repairman

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Buffaloed said:
Some questions to ponder:

What happens to a player who hasn't said a word about retirement decides to retire when the lockout ends? Would he have to repay the money? James Patrick is a good possibility.

Are retirement benefits fully vested? If so, as the emergency fund dwindles we might be seeing a lot of older players filing retirement papers to collect their pension. Will they have to repay the lockout benefits?

After a lockout ends (and assuming it isn't immediately followed by strike action), wouldn't it be back to business as usual, meaning the normal retirement rules apply? If so, repayment of union stipends wouldn't be an issue.

As for retiring in the middle of a job action in order to collect pension benefits, I'm not certain that's allowable.
 
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