RLR: Couturier not quite living up to our expectations

[Tormentor]

Link to USA TODAY

1 Gabriel Landeskog RW 6-1, 201 Left 11/23/1992 Kitchener
2 Ryan Nugent-Hopkins C 6-0, 163 Left 4/12/1993 Red Deer
3 Adam Larsson D 6-3, 220 Right 11/12/1992 Skelleftea
4 Dougie Hamilton D 6-4, 193 Right 6/17/1993 Niagara
5 Jonathan Huberdeau LW 6-1, 165 Left 6/4/1993 Saint John
6 Ryan Murphy D 5-11, 176 Right 3/31/1993 Kitchener
7 Ryan Strome C 6-0, 183 Right 7/11/1993 Niagara
8 Sean Couturier C 6-4, 193 Left 12/7/1992 Drummondville
9 Alex Khokhlachev C 5-10, 172 Left 5/9/1993 Windsor
10 Brandon Saad LW 6-2, 200 Left 10/27/1992 Saginaw

"He's not playing badly, but he's not quite living up to our expectations, and others have passed him."

"The top eight (possibly nine) guys on the list have separated themselves out from the pack."

"Ask 10 scouts to put an order to those eight to nine guys and you'll get 10 different answers. There is no clearly delineated order this year."

Click to read more...

 

[boredmale]

As an Islanders fan I am a little less worried about picking 5th(as opposed to the we have to pick top 4 or else we are screwed feeling I had a couple weeks ago).

I am not sold on Murphy, but I do like Strome, Hamilton and Huberdeau

 

[Bjorn Le]

What is more surprising is they put Khokhlachev at 9th.

I can't fathom why, does it have a reason?

Stronger offensive team than Strome in Niagra but way less impressive and only 2 spots back of him.

 

[Pitlick*]

I think everyone's harsh with Couturier as he's been watched for a long time, sort of like Tavares, that they look for flaws.

Tavares is looking great now; not saying Couturier is in Tavares' class, but the scrutiny is causing him to drop. 8 seems too low.

Landeskog is the easiest to project. You know exactly what type of player you're going to get with him. The only mystery is if he'll be a 20-25 or a 30-35 goal scorer in the NHL.

Larsson and Nugent-Hopkins should be 1-2 you'd figure.

 

[Noonansgoal]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a flaw about his game was that he didn't have world class speed to accompany his size, correct? I'm no expert here but he certainly looked a tad sluggish at the WJC from what I saw.

 

[R S]

I am one of Khoklachev's biggest supporters. I think I had him top 15-20 in my last mock, but to see him at 9th is kind of shocking.

I love how dynamic he is, but I don't see him going anywhere near top 10. Top 25 or so sounds about right to me.

As for Couturier, this is almost one of those articles that wreaks like it's trying to create buzz and get people talking. Couturier will not slide all the way to 8th. There is 0 percent chance of that happening.

I know people say, "yeah, well look at Fowler and Gormley last year, blah blah. I don't care." The guy is already a competent two way player that could step in and likely play a third line NHL role RIGHT NOW on many NHL teams. He's too safe of a pick to pass on for 7 teams.

 

[McOvechking]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but a flaw about his game was that he didn't have world class speed to accompany his size, correct? I'm no expert here but he certainly looked a tad sluggish at the WJC from what I saw.

His speed is fine. His compete level and energy level are more of a problem. He's got all the talent in the world, but he doesn't know how to bring it all together.

 

[TheStranger]

Larsson + Couturier for Avs!

 

[R S]

I'm not going to lie, people hate on RLR all the time, but I really enjoy reading what they have to say.

 

[arsmaster*]

In all honesty, I am wondering what the "expectations" are for Sean Couturier.

I would love to see what he and Huberdeau could do if they were flipped.

Sean is sooo strong and patient with the puck, seldom makes a bad decision, but his flaw is that he isnt flashy/makes the simple "quiet" play instead of the flashy one. He doesnt have elite speed, but his skating is something that gets ragged on unfairly IMO.

8th overall is classic Woodlief trying to drum up hits....

Could you imagine if Boston gets Couturier with Toronto's 1st??? Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and SEAN COUTURIER for Phil Kessel. wow.

He is a C, but can play LW......There is absoultely no way he isnt BPA after 5th, he is still 3rd IMO.

 

[Gillies Mustache]

I'm sure the Islanders will be glad to grab Couturier 4-6. Couturier-Tavares-El Nino

 

[BabyBennettov]

I am one of Khoklachev's biggest supporters. I think I had him top 15-20 in my last mock, but to see him at 9th is kind of shocking.

I love how dynamic he is, but I don't see him going anywhere near top 10. Top 25 or so sounds about right to me.

As for Couturier, this is almost one of those articles that wreaks like it's trying to create buzz and get people talking. Couturier will not slide all the way to 8th. There is 0 percent chance of that happening.

I know people say, "yeah, well look at Fowler and Gormley last year, blah blah. I don't care." The guy is already a competent two way player that could step in and likely play a third line NHL role RIGHT NOW on many NHL teams. He's too safe of a pick to pass on for 7 teams.

And I want Khokhlachev at 34th !

I've been crossing my fingers 24-7 for a month, and I'll do so until the draft !

My fingers are pretty bad... It hurts...

 

[arsmaster*]

I'm not going to lie, people hate on RLR all the time, but I really enjoy reading what they have to say.

They get 'hated on', but RLR is what it is, something worth reading, but not worth mortgaging the house on their rankings.

I enjoy it too, dont get me wrong from my other posts, but last month when Button came out with a mock, people were all over it because Sean was 6th, now 8th either raises more red flags on the player, or someone has an alterior motive.

I could care less, because the team I cheer for never gets to select in the top 10...its just fun to see how it all plays out in the end.

Like the Islanders fan above said, Im sure they have no problem taking him around 5th if he drops that far.

 

[Akonite]

In all honesty, I am wondering what the "expectations" are for Sean Couturier.

I would love to see what he and Huberdeau could do if they were flipped.

Sean is sooo strong and patient with the puck, seldom makes a bad decision, but his flaw is that he isnt flashy/makes the simple "quiet" play instead of the flashy one. He doesnt have elite speed, but his skating is something that gets ragged on unfairly IMO.

8th overall is classic Woodlief trying to drum up hits....

Could you imagine if Boston gets Couturier with Toronto's 1st??? Tyler Seguin, Jared Knight and SEAN COUTURIER for Phil Kessel. wow.

He is a C, but can play LW......There is absoultely no way he isnt BPA after 5th, he is still 3rd IMO.

Im in the same boat. 13 less games than RNH, but only 9 less points. I think people tend to get mesmerized by prospects who can stickhandle like RNH at top speed.

I'd be ecstatic getting either of them, or Larsson for that matter.

 

[Dread Clawz]

They get 'hated on', but RLR is what it is, something worth reading, but not worth mortgaging the house on their rankings.

I enjoy it too, dont get me wrong from my other posts, but last month when Button came out with a mock, people were all over it because Sean was 6th, now 8th either raises more red flags on the player, or someone has an alterior motive.

I could care less, because the team I cheer for never gets to select in the top 10...its just fun to see how it all plays out in the end.

Like the Islanders fan above said, Im sure they have no problem taking him around 5th if he drops that far.

Neither would the Panthers.

 

[djscooter]

As for Couturier, this is almost one of those articles that wreaks like it's trying to create buzz and get people talking. Couturier will not slide all the way to 8th. There is 0 percent chance of that happening.

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

Typical stuff from Redline

 

[Qvist]

Couturier. Okay, so what's really at the root of the slide?

Sorry to start yet another Couturier thread, but right now there seems to be an almost universal and irresistible sense that Couturier is slipping relative to other prospects. However, there is no clear sense as to what exactly is the problem.

One school of thought is that he's just been a top prospect too long and so people overfocus on his faults. That's no explanation - other prospects in the same situation have not slipped in this way.

Wo, regardless of whether you agree with his drop in the rankings or not, what do you think is causing it? Skating? Lack of energy? Bad momentum resulting from a somewhat disappointing WJC? Not enough offensive upside?

How far can it go? Are we looking at an Esposito kind of situation here?

And to what extent is it a case of other players strengthening their standing rather than Couturier weakening his?

 

[Dread Clawz]

Mainly 4 things:

He's been in the spotlight too long.

People don't like his style. He's not sexy or flashy. Yet he continues to carry a mediocre team devoid of NHL prospects on his back every night while being 5th in the league in scoring and 2nd in +/-, and Drummondville sits 4th overall in the Q, mainly because of Sean.

His skating is perceived as weak, when in reality it is not a cause for concern at all. His skating is no worse than Landeskog's or Huberdeau's yet you never hear anything about their skating.

The wide open nature of this draft at the top lends itself to more opportunity for "2nd tier players" to move up in rankings.

 

[Tiranis]

I think RLR gets hated on unfairly, looking back at their lists for the past few years, it really seems like they do a pretty good job and I imagine that the draft lists of NHL teams look more similar to RLR than they do to other scouting agencies. They're not afraid to bring certain biases into their scouting and have their particular methodologies that are clearly different from what the others do.

 

[arsmaster*]

Sorry to start yet another Couturier thread, but right now there seems to be an almost universal and irresistible sense that Couturier is slipping relative to other prospects. However, there is no clear sense as to what exactly is the problem

One school of thought is that he's just been a top prospect too long and so people overfocus on his faults. That's no explanation - other prospects in the same situation have not slipped in this way.

Sure they have...Tavares dropped to 3rd in rankings after being #1 for almost 3 years, same with Hall last year....albeit neither dropped to 8th on RLR, but how often does redline predict the top correctly? Or any ranking for that matter?

Wo, regardless of whether you agree with his drop in the rankings or not, what do you think is causing it? Skating? Lack of energy? Bad momentum resulting from a somewhat disappointing WJC? Not enough offensive upside?

Skating concern, the kid is 6'4", just wait until he finishes filling out his frame, he is going to be an unstoppable load going to the net.

Lack of energy - thats probably why he is losing ground, he isnt flashy, just gets the job done.

World Juniors - He was asked to play a role, and played it perfectly....to not even get PP time on that team was ridiculous, yet Sean still displayed elite checking abilities.

Offensive upside - well he has improved on last years numbers in less games, while having mononucleosis early in the season.

How far can it go? Are we looking at an Esposito kind of situation here?

NO! Esposito rode coatails of Radulov to get to his perch of #1 prior, Sean has ridden ZERO coatails and is the only threat on the Voltiguers.

And to what extent is it a case of other players strengthening their standing rather than Couturier weakening his

To a large extent that is the case.

 

[Jussi]

Looks like Armia will get a chance to raise his stock at the U-18 WJC, Ässät down 0-2 in the SM-liiga quarterfinals.

 

[Qvist]

Mainly 4 things:

He's been in the spotlight too long.

Not good enough. So have a lot of other players who haven't dropped in the ratings as a result.

People don't like his style. He's not sexy or flashy. Yet he continues to carry a mediocre team devoid of NHL prospects on his back every night while being 5th in the league in scoring and 2nd in +/-, and Drummondville sits 4th overall in the Q, mainly because of Sean.

If that was the problem, that should have hurt him just as much a year ago, and it didn't.

His skating is perceived as weak, when in reality it is not a cause for concern at all. His skating is no worse than Landeskog's or Huberdeau's yet you never hear anything about their skating.

Then why is it perceived as weak?

The wide open nature of this draft at the top lends itself to more opportunity for "2nd tier players" to move up in rankings.

Sorry, but that's a circular argument. If there is more opportunity for 2nd tier players to move up, that's because the 1st tier isn't convincing - and the question here is why a particular 1st tier player is currently not convincing the scouts.

Thanks for weighing in, but these are mainly the sort of speculative and unconvincing generalisations that I made this thread in an attempt to get beyond.

 

[arsmaster*]

Not good enough. So have a lot of other players who
Thanks for weighing in, but these are mainly the sort of speculative and unconvincing generalisations that I made this thread in an attempt to get beyond.

You arent going to get anything different.

He's not playing badly, but he's not quite living up to our expectations, and others have passed him."

In my opinion it comes down to the expectations.

Right now it seems the expectations were unrealistic, what else can he do?

 

[State of Hockey]

In all honesty, I am wondering what the "expectations" are for Sean Couturier.

So do I. What exactly hasn't he done, RLR?

 

[Tiranis]

So do I. What exactly hasn't he done, RLR?

Perhaps he's not showing the kind of game they believe will translate well at the next level? Perhaps they see things that make them believe his potential is lower than of those ranked ahead of him? I think simply falling back to his production in the Q is a bad way to gauge whether they're right or wrong.