Proposal: Ristolsinen ?

UticaHockey

Registered User
Feb 27, 2013
3,418
2,303
Utica, NY
I'm a Sabres fan first and Canucks second and there is no way I would want Virtanen over Ristolainen. I still consider Risto as part of the core that the Sabres are rebuilding around. Can the same be said for Jake? The problem with Risto is he has been asked to do too much, play too many minutes and he hasn't shown well in Housley's system. If his minutes were cut back a little he can be an effective 2-3 pairing NHL defenseman. A big physical smooth skating defenseman is not something I'm ready to give up on.
 
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M2Beezy

Objective and Neutral Hockey Commentator
May 25, 2014
45,284
30,119
Oh, if Benning is here I’d be surprised if Ristolainen isn’t a Canuck. He’s the Benningest player that ever Benninged.
LOL this could be the best post Ive ever read on here :laugh:
 
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krutovsdonut

eeyore
Sep 25, 2016
16,772
9,427
he's a talented guy struggling on a bad team trying to do too much with no structure. he could take off on a good team in a strong defensive system, but we're not that team. we're a team that can get extra value from guys who are not that talented but know how to play in a strong defensive system and can show our guys how to do that.
 

VanJack

Registered User
Jul 11, 2014
21,043
14,073
I'm a Sabres fan first and Canucks second and there is no way I would want Virtanen over Ristolainen. I still consider Risto as part of the core that the Sabres are rebuilding around. Can the same be said for Jake? The problem with Risto is he has been asked to do too much, play too many minutes and he hasn't shown well in Housley's system. If his minutes were cut back a little he can be an effective 2-3 pairing NHL defenseman. A big physical smooth skating defenseman is not something I'm ready to give up on.
I always worry when somebody tells me that a d-man is still 'great' but doesn't mesh well with the system the team is playing and is being played too many minutes. This guy was drafted eighth overall by the Sabres as a potential stud d-man who can play top minutes. But coming off two seasons where he was a -69 overall, and seeing his point production decline almost every year, something's missing.

The other problem is that the guy carries a cap hit of $5.4m a season through 2021. You can't pay a d-man with Ristolainen's underlying stats that kind of money unless you're absolutely convinced he is a stud d-man in waiting. And since he's now 24, you could be in for a long wait.

Canucks already have enough under underwhelming d-men. They don't need another at the cost of Virtanen and a big hole in their salary cap.
 

4Twenty

Registered User
Dec 18, 2018
9,987
11,831
Ristolainen sucks and is the new Jack Johnson. No team will win with him playing significant minutes. So nope.
You seriously wouldn't trade Jake straight up....I get Risto has warts, but I think even trade on value would favour the dman.
 

UticaHockey

Registered User
Feb 27, 2013
3,418
2,303
Utica, NY
I always worry when somebody tells me that a d-man is still 'great' but doesn't mesh well with the system the team is playing and is being played too many minutes. This guy was drafted eighth overall by the Sabres as a potential stud d-man who can play top minutes. But coming off two seasons where he was a -69 overall, and seeing his point production decline almost every year, something's missing.

The other problem is that the guy carries a cap hit of $5.4m a season through 2021. You can't pay a d-man with Ristolainen's underlying stats that kind of money unless you're absolutely convinced he is a stud d-man in waiting. And since he's now 24, you could be in for a long wait.

Canucks already have enough under underwhelming d-men. They don't need another at the cost of Virtanen and a big hole in their salary cap.
But much of the same thing can be said about Jake Virtanen (minus the $5.4M cap hit which I admit is a big deal). I just think that Risto has a better chance of living up to his 8th overall draft spot than Jake has at coming close to his 6th overall. Shotgun Jake was fun while it lasted but his second half of the season has been very concerning.
 
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MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,423
Vancouver, BC
You seriously wouldn't trade Jake straight up....I get Risto has warts, but I think even trade on value would favour the dman.

I mean, Ristolainen has more value, and if you flipped him next week for something better ... sure.

But if you actually kept him, he’s one of these awful players that coaches can’t stop overplaying because tools and he’ll destroy the team’s ability to compete.
 
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Wilch

Unregistered User
Mar 29, 2010
12,224
487
I mean, Ristolainen has more value, and if you flipped him next week for something better ... sure.

But if you actually kept him, he’s one of these awful players that coaches can’t stop overplaying because tools and he’ll destroy the team’s ability to compete.

The sort of quality Trailer Jim looks for when he wants to overpay for something.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,362
83,423
Vancouver, BC
What Ristolainen should be is a 3rd pairing guy playing 18-19 sheltered minutes + PP time. Making $2 million or something.

But it’s the Jack Johnson effect where dinosaur coaches see this big, top-10 pick who can shoot missiles and throw big hits and 40 points! and because they seem on paper to be the best defender on the team just can’t help handing them huge minutes and then wonder why the team is so bad defensively.

If you’re a 6’4 top-10 pick with some PP skills to put up points in that role .... everyone just defaults to ‘this guy must be a top-pairing defender!’.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
What Ristolainen should be is a 3rd pairing guy playing 18-19 sheltered minutes + PP time. Making $2 million or something.

But it’s the Jack Johnson effect where dinosaur coaches see this big, top-10 pick who can shoot missiles and throw big hits and 40 points! and because they seem on paper to be the best defender on the team just can’t help handing them huge minutes and then wonder why the team is so bad defensively.

If you’re a 6’4 top-10 pick with some PP skills to put up points in that role .... everyone just defaults to ‘this guy must be a top-pairing defender!’.

It seems a lot of the posters think Risto has s low hockey IQ, just like Jake, but hurts his team more because he’s a d man. Maybe we keep Jake?
 

Canucker

Go Hawks!
Oct 5, 2002
25,428
4,635
Oak Point, Texas
I'd happily take Ristolainen over JV....Ristolainen may not be a defensive gem but he can put up points, is a RH shot and plays with an edge. Simplify his game, put him on the 2nd PK unit, put him on the PP but don't run the PP through him, cut back on the total minutes...he's a horse but he's not Niklas Lidstrom out there. Virtanen is what he is...he'll likely top out at 20-goals in a career year and maybe 40 points...maybe. He's inconsistent offensively, defensively and physically, I'd happily move him for help on defense.
 
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dellzor

Bo Horvat's Head
Nov 21, 2016
1,146
730
Vancouver, BC
Not sure why they deploy him as a top pairing defenseman when he's clearly not capable (he's more of a #3 / #4). He is a career 44.6 CF and like -120 career lmao. However, I would definitely trade JV for him.
 
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82Ninety42011

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
7,526
5,456
Abbotsford BC
Risto getting all offensive zone starts and paired with a speedy defensive dman would definitely help him. He's being misused in Buffalo as a everything 1 Dman because they have no one. Guys got skill but he's not defensively responsable all that losing has not helped his confidence either. For Jake 1 for 1 hell yah.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
Risto getting all offensive zone starts and paired with a speedy defensive dman would definitely help him. He's being misused in Buffalo as a everything 1 Dman because they have no one. Guys got skill but he's not defensively responsable all that losing has not helped his confidence either. For Jake 1 for 1 hell yah.

This is pretty much my thinking too. Jake has a lot of attractive attributes, much like Risto has. I just don’t know if Risto gets paid too much for what he brings?
 

82Ninety42011

Registered User
Jul 2, 2011
7,526
5,456
Abbotsford BC
This is pretty much my thinking too. Jake has a lot of attractive attributes, much like Risto has. I just don’t know if Risto gets paid too much for what he brings?
I think Risto put in a more flattering position to succeed with sheltered minutes in offensive zone he'd look like a bargain. He's great offensively take away his defensive zone starts and his mistakes would be limited. Let him be creative without the pressure of own zone.
 
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Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
H
I think Risto put in a more flattering position to succeed with sheltered minutes in offensive zone he'd look like a bargain. He's great offensively take away his defensive zone starts and his mistakes would be limited. Let him be creative without the pressure of own zone.
rs kind of like the player we need on the back end, right? I watch him play and I see a lot to like (much like Jake) then when the game is over he’s a minus two, and I don’t get it. I think you’re right, and the Sabres are not playing him to his strengths
 
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Fire Benning

diaper filled piss baby
Oct 2, 2016
6,970
8,252
Hell
Ristolainen is such a perfect defenseman for Benning to target. Former top 10 pick who possesses all the "tools" but actually sucks.
 
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LuckyBoeser

Registered User
Oct 8, 2018
1,354
1,706
Ristolainen would be underwhelming in Vancouver if our pp system does not improve. He is a keen example of when points production can be misleading and doesn't reflect on how good of an offensive player he actually is.
 

Fatass

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
21,951
13,920
Ristolainen is such a perfect defenseman for Benning to target. Former top 10 pick who possesses all the "tools" but actually sucks.

I get that Risto has a terrible D zone brain, but he does put up points. Do you not want him because he’s overpaid for his play?
 

PetterssonSimp

Registered User
Dec 12, 2008
7,374
917
I don’t want Tyler Myers or Tyler Myers 2.0. They aren’t worth what they’ll be offered in contract or asking price in trade. Each struggle at all aspects of the game of hockey save for being 6’5.
 

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