Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

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BlueForever75

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So I guess all this talk of Cain is bs. If the Jays sit on their hands once again this off season they will lose everything they built regaining the fan base. I too believe we are a couple of additions away from legitimately contending as long as healthy prevails. But to say that we don't need OF help is ludicrous and bad management. This is the biggest hole we have.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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I’m down to sign the homie JD, cut ties with the fat (Morales), and go young everywhere else.

If I’m willing to pay $22MM for Gordon/Morales, I should be more than willing to pay a 30 year JD Martinez $25MM to be my #4 hitter until he’s 36.
 

Discoverer

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I’m down to sign the homie JD, cut ties with the fat (Morales), and go young everywhere else.

If I’m willing to pay $22MM for Gordon/Morales, I should be more than willing to pay a 30 year JD Martinez $25MM to be my #4 hitter until he’s 36.

You would have to pay almost all of Morales's contract to dump him and free up the roster spot. So it's not like it actually clears salary to pay someone else.
 

BlueForever75

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I’m down to sign the homie JD, cut ties with the fat (Morales), and go young everywhere else.

If I’m willing to pay $22MM for Gordon/Morales, I should be more than willing to pay a 30 year JD Martinez $25MM to be my #4 hitter until he’s 36.

Sorry would rather have Gordon and Cain for about 27 combined and trade off Morales. Then sign one player for 25 million per season. Gordon gives us insurance in outfield and infield. Maybe even start everyday at 2B and move Travis to DH and utility player that the Jays want.

Imagine Gordon and Cain starting you batting lineup followed by JD, Smoak, Tulo and others. Better balanced lineup then Martinez in it alone.
 

Discoverer

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Sorry would rather have Gordon and Cain for about 27 combined and trade off Morales. Then sign one player for 25 million per season. Gordon gives us insurance in outfield and infield. Maybe even start everyday at 2B and move Travis to DH and utility player that the Jays want.

Imagine Gordon and Cain starting you batting lineup followed by JD, Smoak, Tulo and others. Better balanced lineup then Martinez in it alone.

Better balanced doesn't mean better.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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You would have to pay almost all of Morales's contract to dump him and free up the roster spot. So it's not like it actually clears salary to pay someone else.

Unfortunately so, yes. Makes that whole thing just worse when you think about it. Even with maintaining Morales as a sunk cost, the Bautista aav remains available to reallocate (with e caveat of course of arb salary increases).

Perhaps a crap (Morales) for crap (Gerardo Parra) would add some positional flexibility.

Sorry would rather have Gordon and Cain for about 27 combined and trade off Morales. Then sign one player for 25 million per season. Gordon gives us insurance in outfield and infield. Maybe even start everyday at 2B and move Travis to DH and utility player that the Jays want.

Imagine Gordon and Cain starting you batting lineup followed by JD, Smoak, Tulo and others. Better balanced lineup then Martinez in it alone.

See, this is where Zeke and I cross over, in theory. Knowing what I do about my future roster, I’m more inclined to go heavy on a core of players (i.e. Donaldson re-signed through age 36, Martinez signed through age 36) and gain my speed, defense and athletism through the young players in my pipeline. So instead of betting on 30+ athletic tool based players will remain athletic, I’m betting on Teoscar, Alford, DSJ, Gurriel to hit their potential.

The strategy becomes further viable when I consider I have to pre-arb potential superstars in the pipe (Vlad/Bo) who would not be expensive until Donaldson was ready to roll off my books (4 years).

I’m not usually willing to go long with free agents, but if I was ever able to invest heavily, it would with a 30 year old who essentially matched the messiah (Judge) as a hitter in 2017.
 

Kurtz

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I mean, I don't hate the notion of starting Teoscar and whoever has the better spring between Alford and Pompey if the savings there can be directed for a good starter and a good middle infielder (and maybe another good BP arm) .

JD would be great, but Shatkins have demonstrated over and over again that given the choice between spending ~$30 mil/year on a guy or spending that ~$30 mil/year on 3 guys, they will always opt towards the latter.
 

Discoverer

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I mean, I don't hate the notion of starting Teoscar and whoever has the better spring between Alford and Pompey if the savings there can be directed for a good starter and a good middle infielder (and maybe another good BP arm) .

JD would be great, but Shatkins have demonstrated over and over again that given the choice between spending ~$30 mil/year on a guy or spending that ~$30 mil/year on 3 guys, they will always opt towards the latter.

The tough part right now is that they have a number of needs (an OF, a MIF, a starter, and a reliever or two) and roughly $25 million to spend, assuming payroll doesn't go up. So if you target Martinez (and pretend he's an OF) then you basically have to plug all those holes for league minimum. Yay Ryan Goins and Gift Ngoepe as middle infield depth! Yay Brett Anderson as the fifth starter!

If, say, Urena and Borucki looked like they were clearly ready to contribute in the majors, I think targeting one big FA would be a more viable option because they would then be able to plug the rest of the holes internally. Unfortunately, of all those holes, the only one you could reasonably expect to get any kind of internal production from when the 2018 season opens is the one Martinez is presumably being signed to fill (and the pen, but that's probably mostly going to be an internal patch job regardless of which direction they go). So you get that one start player, but you still have a bunch of huge holes to fill, no money to fill them with, and no one in the organization able to do the job.
 
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Garlando

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2012 Ben Zobrist cost $4.6MM :laugh:

The trick is finding the next Ben Zobrist before he's old, free agent, zombie Ben Zobrist. All Minor Leagues Leaderboards » 2017 » Batters » Advanced Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball
Two names on that list I've talked about being potential great underrated targets are Ildemaro Vargas of the D-Backs and Mike Tauchman of the Rockies. Would really like to see the Jays in on both of them! I think they could be had for a low acquisition cost because of their advanced age for prospects and could return quality value as depth with upside for much more.
 

phillipmike

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I hope no one takes this seriously as it was and is meant to be a joke but someone wrote this in another forum i am apart of;

It is only fitting that Alex goes to another team and that team immediately loses a dozen prospects upon his arrival.

Of course referring to AA getting hired by the Braves then losing 12 prospects due to something the previous regime did. 12 being the exact number of prospects AA traded to get Tulo, Price, Lowe, Revere and Pennington.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Two names on that list I've talked about being potential great underrated targets are Ildemaro Vargas of the D-Backs and Mike Tauchman of the Rockies. Would really like to see the Jays in on both of them! I think they could be had for a low acquisition cost because of their advanced age for prospects and could return quality value as depth with upside for much more.

Love em. Both blocked by significant depth on each of their current teams. Locastro as well. Should be as simple as the Ngoepe transaction.
 

BertCorbeau

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I hope no one takes this seriously as it was and is meant to be a joke but someone wrote this in another forum i am apart of;



Of course referring to AA getting hired by the Braves then losing 12 prospects due to something the previous regime did. 12 being the exact number of prospects AA traded to get Tulo, Price, Lowe, Revere and Pennington.

I was going to blame it on the Illuminati
 
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hockeywiz542

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TORONTO — The Toronto Blue Jays say they are conducting an internal investigation after six players in the team's minor-league system were suspended for using performance-enhancing substances over the past week.

Major League Baseball suspended five minor-league players on Tuesday, including three in Toronto's system, for violations of the Minor League Drug Prevention and Treatment Program. That announcement came four days after three Blue Jays were caught up in another round of MLB suspensions.

"This situation is very disappointing and disturbing to the organization; disappointing that the players made these choices, but more so disturbing that some failure of our environment allowed this to happen," Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins said in a statement Thursday. "It is our responsibility to create an environment and culture where our players know that PED use is not condoned, and to give them resources and education to ensure that they do not make these decisions.

"As we seek to determine both how and why this happened, an internal investigation into the situation remains ongoing, and we will double down on ensuring that all our staff is properly equipped to help our players make the right choices."
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Weird. The Dodgers just released Fernandez.

Trouble with him is he’s older, and is essentially a 1B. The Cardinals will probably sign him, do their voodoo, and get a three win player out of it.

LA has a ridiculous amount of position players who are all blocked. I would be approaching them on several lottery ticket guys.
 

dredeye

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Trouble with him is he’s older, and is essentially a 1B. The Cardinals will probably sign him, do their voodoo, and get a three win player out of it.

LA has a ridiculous amount of position players who are all blocked. I would be approaching them on several lottery ticket guys.
What do you offer them though? Lower tier prospects?
 

TheMadHatTrick

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What do you offer them though? Lower tier prospects?

They could use some international bonus pool money if they want to get serious about Otani, and I think we have a little over 1M. I doubt Otani is coming here so we really don't have much use for it, unless we use it to go after some of the Braves' lost prospects like Maitan or Gutierrez (which admittedly would be pretty cool).
 

metafour

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They could use some international bonus pool money if they want to get serious about Otani, and I think we have a little over 1M. I doubt Otani is coming here so we really don't have much use for it, unless we use it to go after some of the Braves' lost prospects like Maitan or Gutierrez (which admittedly would be pretty cool).

The Dodgers are in the penalty and can't offer Ohtani more than $300k, so it really doesn't matter how much IFA money they have.
 

hockeywiz542

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TORONTO – Catching prospect Max Pentecost, a notable omission when the Toronto Blue Jays set their 40-man roster earlier this week, was shut down during the final of the Arizona Fall League because of pain in his right shoulder.

The setback for the 11th overall pick in the 2014 draft helps explain why he wasn’t protected ahead of next month’s Rule 5 draft, the team surely calculating that with Pentecost’s injury history and staggered development, he’s unlikely to be selected, and less likely to stick for a full big-league season if chosen.


The Blue Jays also added catching prospects Danny Jansen and Reese McGuire to a 40-man roster that already included Russell Martin and Luke Maile, and carrying five catchers is a sub-optimal set-up.

“Ultimately we have to decide what we feel is the best chance for us to keep the most talent in our organization,” was how Blue Jays general manager Ross Atkins described the decision, adding later: “We’ll have plenty of time for (Pentecost) to become that person for us.”
Trading for starters is always difficult and landing them in free agency can be even tougher, as pitching in the AL East isn’t exactly a selling feature. Still, putting a mid-market arm in place like the reliable Lance Lynn or Jason Vargas or high-upside Alex Cobb serves both the present and the future while Tyler Chatwood could fill the hybrid role Atkins described.

Chris Tillman or Wade Miley are potential value-play, one-year stop gap types that have also been kicked around, but that would only cover this year, not next.
 

Hoverhand

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When the inevitable happens and we lose out on Ohtani, Martinez, and Cain, Be interesting to see some of the fallback options out there. I imagine they go after Bruce, maybe a flyer on either of the CarGo's, or maybe Matt Joyce.
Starting Teoscar in right is probably our best option if we lose out on the big fishes but i still imagine they go after the Option C types.
 

Brock Boeser Laser Show

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Wheres the frigging trades/ signings...
As soon as I saw JD Martinez asking for 200 million I knew it was going to be a slow start to the off season. The usual big spenders seem a little more reserved after handing out so many bad contracts over the past decade and not many of them want to go over the luxury tax. You also have next years free agent class which is going to make teams shy to commit too much money to average players.

Wouldn't be shocked if a lot of decent players aren't signed until we get closer to spring training. I think if you wait things out there's a good chance the jays can find some solid bargins.
 

Anthrax442

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As soon as I saw JD Martinez asking for 200 million I knew it was going to be a slow start to the off season. The usual big spenders seem a little more reserved after handing out so many bad contracts over the past decade and not many of them want to go over the luxury tax. You also have next years free agent class which is going to make teams shy to commit too much money to average players.

Wouldn't be shocked if a lot of decent players aren't signed until we get closer to spring training. I think if you wait things out there's a good chance the jays can find some solid bargins.


I know this is a fanboy thing to say, but I'd like a big signing. and then they can dumpster dive all they want.
 
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