Blue Jays Discussion: RIP Roy Halladay (1977-2017)

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TOGuy14

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Dec 30, 2010
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Any one in the ex-Braves prospect list that would be worthwhile?

Kevin Maitan is the big name.

He is 17 but highly touted, and considered a top 100 prospect in all of baseball (and listed as high as 30 on some lists). Tough to project these guys from such a young age, but he has the tools to be a quality infielder
 

The Nemesis

Semper Tyrannus
Apr 11, 2005
87,847
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I wonder how many of those Braves prospects eventually get found out to have shady personal documents and are suddenly 3 years older than they were supposed to be. Not any particular reason for this to happen or anything to do with the Braves themselves, but I just kinda miss the random hand-grenade that is finding out some high-potential 20-year-old international prospect is actually 23/24 and a whole lot less interesting because of it.
 

Canada4Gold

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Dec 22, 2010
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Assuming they're able to sign Otani without triggering the 2018-19 penalties... but that seems unlikely.

wait, the new system is a hard cap no? And IIRC I don't think acquiring 75% of your original pool to increase what you can offer results in any penalties moving forward does it? Maybe I didn't learn the new rules properly
 

AlienWorkShop

No, Ben! No!
Oct 30, 2004
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Yes. That's what I've been getting at. I was totally saying that one stupid comment is the downfall of the entire athletic model. Curses, my whole plan is unraveling at my feet. Time to walk off into the sunset and rue the collapse of everything I was building towards....

Come on. If you're going to respond, at least give me something more than a ridiculous over-stretched misrepresentation of my point.

The point I was making was that I've seen multiple writers for the Athletic refer to it as if it will lead to the betterment of journalist/fan interactions because it somehow attracts a "better" class of fan than the rest of the internet or other media channels. The truth is that it appears to have made little difference in raising the overall quality of sports discourse. At best it's substituted angry hot takes for cloying self-satisfying tire pumping (take a drink any time almost any article on there with 10+ comments includes at least one that's some form of "this is why I pay for my subscription" or even a simple "great article !". I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some of those turn out to be a degree of astroturfing) At its worst it still invites massive stupidity and doesn't really change anything other than disallowing excessively profane or inappropriately worded comments.
My post was quite snarky (and I apologize for the random snipe), but I didn't mean to cause offence (I'm well aware you're a quality poster on here)! How about this: if I truly thought your one post encapsulated all your views on The Athletic, it'd be as representative as singling out one dumb comment on The Athletic as representative of all user commentary on that site :)

Yeah of course the writers are going to be doing a fair amount of tire-pumping of their venture... It's all noise to me really.

I honestly don't read The Athletic for the user comments/author interaction anyway (though it's usually at least decent when I skim it)... Their quality varies by sport (excellent for hockey, still finding their feet for baseball, which is very much a secondary sport for me anyway...). I appreciate it more for time constraints as I don't really have the time for forums anymore (the amount of scrolling you need to do for quality posts...) though I very much appreciate the Blue Jays threads here for keeping me in the loop for baseball!
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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wait, the new system is a hard cap no? And IIRC I don't think acquiring 75% of your original pool to increase what you can offer results in any penalties moving forward does it? Maybe I didn't learn the new rules properly

No, you're definitely right... I didn't learn the new rules properly. For some reason I was thinking it was some kind of hybrid of the old system and the actual new system. I thought there was a soft cap that you could pass to trigger a series of penalties AND a hard cap that you couldn't pass.

This makes way more sense.

I want Otani to sign with not the Yankees so badly... he might be the most intriguing player to join the league in decades, and the baseball fan in me really wants him to be amazing. But I can't want that if he plays for the Yankees.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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I had a presentation to a prospective client yesterday in which we were one of five corporate banks bidding to finance a large project. Each bank was offering the same pricing and term, so the crux of the presentation was attempting to differentiate our deal from the others. After the presentation, it got me thinking about the Otani situation, and I came up with what my best shot would be. Aside from all the BS about the city and how its a nice place to live, the sports science department, and all that other fluffy stuff, the main selling point in my hypothetical situation would be a commitment by the franchise to employ a 6-man rotation with a "floating" #6 starter.

Using the Blue Jays (who adopted such a set-up in late 2016 for Aaron Sanchez) as the base team, it would work as follows:

For Otani: Start - (off) - DH - RF - DH - (off) Start

Rotation ('18 Blue Jays):
1) Stroman - (Otani - DH)
2) Sanchez - (Otani - off)
3) Otani
4) Happ - (Otani - off)
5) Estrada - (Otani - DH)
6) Biagini - (Otani - RF)

The "floating" #6 (in this case Biagini) is skipped every few starts when days rest (according to the 2018 schedule) lines up for the other 4 starters not named Otani (i.e. on as close to regular rest as possible). The goal being to have the other starters reach roughly the 30 games started mark (120 games total), while Otani receives 27 starts, and the floater receives 15 (the hypothetical "floater" would likely function best as a quad-A guy, or long reliever type, or hybrid tweener; pre-arb would also function best as the pitcher would likely not get pissy about their lack of innings). This would likely not work out perfectly clean like this, but those are rough numbers in terms of scheduled starts. For a little info on pitcher health and results with a hypothetical six man rotation, this is a good article. (Would a six-man rotation work?)

In terms of Batting (and Fielding), this proposed setup would allow Otani to play a hypothetical 81 games (27 in RF, 54 at DH), for a projected ~324 plate appearances. For reference, his career high in plate appearances in Japan was 382 (in 2016). He averaged ~80 games as a position player over his five seasons, with only 15% being played as a non-DH. Furthermore to help illustrate, the amount of plate appearances would be similar to the Justin Smoak\Chris Colabello platoon from 2015 (328 PA, 360 PA, respectively).

Roster construction would remain relatively unchanged. I would be inclined to maintain a four man bench (independent of Otani), and a six man bullpen. The GM employing the strategy would have to ensure the rest of their roster was very flexible, meaning the Morales' of the world would have to not exist. Hypothetically, a Steve Pearce would be your DH on the days Otani was off or starting.

That would be how I'd approach it.
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
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To me that part of the negotiation is simple.

I would say you can pitch every 5th day and hit as much as you like as long as you are healthy, producing and not hurting the team. I think every team's pitch should and will be the same from that stand point. If he is looking for a schedule of what this may look like then i would have on ready but i doubt that is a focus in these early stages.

I think the legal way to win Ohtani is showing him how your team is different or more advanced from a player development standpoint, injury prevention, doctors, coaching staff etc. This should be the focus of the Jays, at least what they can present and control unlike Japanese population and flying time back to Japan.

You get to contribute to this team in any way you want as long as your contributions are positive and doesnt hurt the team or yourself.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

A$AP Joffrey
Aug 14, 2010
13,547
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Washington, DC
Sell him on your WAR/$ free agent signing history.

"We tend not to sign free agents in their early 30's into their mid to late thirties, instead seeking short-term, low risk, value deals for players of that age. Instead, we prefer to sign 24 year old blue chippers to 10 year, $300MM contracts."
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
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Ross Atkins On Blue Jays' Preliminary Offseason Efforts

Toronto’s top priority remains “protect[ing] our middle infield,” says Atkins, who acknowledges the organization cannot simply rely upon Devon Travis and Troy Tulowitzki to handle regular duties. The ideal player — who, Atkins acknowledges, doesn’t likely exist — would not only add “depth and versatility” up the middle but would be a left-handed hitter that can also play in the outfield. More likely, he says, achieving all of these goals will involve multiple players. Atkins suggests a major outfield addition isn’t likely, explaining that he believes there’s “good depth” on hand but expressing a desire to find a way to “complement” the existing players “a little bit better.”

Unless i am reading this wrong i dont know how Atkins doesnt believe this team doesnt need a major outfield addition. Our OF depth is horrid... We have a bunch of good maybes in Alford and Hernandez but if you want to be a playoff team you need another sure thing in one of your corner OF spots. Had one of the worst producing outfields in the league.

Major League Team Stats » 2017 » Outfielders » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

I hope this doesnt mean a season of Pillar in CF with some sort of variation of Hernandez/Pearce/Zeke in the corner spots. I cant defend Atkins if he thinks we should try Pearce again in the OF. Pillar is fine in CF (eventhough i would move him as he is approaching 30), giving Hernandez a shot to start is fine. Not upgrading on Pearce/Zeke is ludicrous - hopefully this is just smoke.
 
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zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
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Ross Atkins On Blue Jays' Preliminary Offseason Efforts



Unless i am reading this wrong i dont know how Atkins doesnt believe this team doesnt need a major outfield addition. Our OF depth is horrid... We have a bunch of good maybes in Alford and Hernandez but if you want to be a playoff team you need another sure thing in one of your corner OF spots. Had one of the worst producing outfields in the league.

Major League Team Stats » 2017 » Outfielders » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

I hope this doesnt mean a season of Pillar in CF with some sort of variation of Hernandez/Pearce/Zeke in the corner spots. I cant defend Atkins if he thinks we should try Pearce again in the OF. Pillar is fine in CF (eventhough i would move him as he is approaching 30), giving Hernandez a shot to start is fine. Not upgrading on Pearce/Zeke is ludicrous - hopefully this is just smoke.

"need depth players depth players because this and that and depth and no actual good players because this and that and depth"

we have plenty of good depth options in the OF - Pillar/Hernandez/Pompey/Alford/Carrera/Pearce - what we need is an impact OF, not more depth which only ends up blocking the other depth.

Oh how I loathe them.
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
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Rays got lucky with Zobrist. Everyone has been looking for the next Zobrist since Zobrist established himself, no one has had any luck.

Tim Locastro, now thats a familiar name.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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Does Jarrod Dyson count as a "major" OF addition? Because he would be the perfect fit and sounds like exactly what they're looking for, considering he gives them an outstanding defensive OF, adds a bunch of speed, and a left-handed bat to platoon with Pearce.

If they were to add Dyson and that magical "good middle-infielder who can play the OF (but maybe not even that assuming Travis can be the one shuffled to the OF if everyone's healthy" then I would have no problem with the offseason.

Dyson at something like 2/$20 and a mediocre prospect for taking on Gordon's contract may look underwhelming, but it would vastly improve the team (and my god would that team ever look different than the one we've watched the last few years).
 

phillipmike

Registered User
Oct 27, 2009
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Dyson and Gordon would be good additions. Not great but good and what the team needs just not convinced it would be enough. Would put too much pressure on just Smoak and JD to be your power bats (we have been spoiled with prime Bautista, EE and JD at all once). Would need a big season from at least 1 of Morales, Tulo, Martin, Travis or Hernandez. Something i wouldnt try to rely on again.
 
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