Rick Tocchet VS Wendel Clark

[CLF4life]

Was debating this at work today.


Tocchet
NHL totals: 1144 440 512 952 2972

Playoffs: 145 52 60 112 471


Clark
NHL totals: 793 330 234 564 1690

Playoffs: 95 37 32 69 201

As a biased leaf fan I take Wendel,

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[Epsilon]

Wendel Clark is one of the most overrated players in NHL history. Tocchet wins this one easily.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

Reluctantly shoving my bias aside, this is still easily Tocchet imo. All the timely goals and energetic play in key situations with oodles more in the toughness/hard to play against category.

 

[Dreakmur]

Here's a better statistical comparison:

Wendel Clark
2 x All-Star Game (1986, 1999)

Goals – 10th(1994), 19th(1999)

Play-off Points – 6th(1993)
Play-off Goals – 5th(1993), 6th(1994)

Rick Tocchet
4 x All-Star Game (1989, 1990, 1991, 1993)

Points – 15th(1990), 14th(1993)
Goals – 11th(1989), 16th(1991), 15th(1993)

Play-off Points – 8th(1987), 8th(1992)
Play-off Goals – 5th(1987)
Play-off Assists – 7th(1992)

Based on that, it's clear that Tocchet is better, but not by very much.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Here's a better statistical comparison:

Wendel Clark
2 x All-Star Game (1986, 1999)

Goals – 10th(1994), 19th(1999)

Play-off Points – 6th(1993)
Play-off Goals – 5th(1993), 6th(1994)

Rick Tocchet
4 x All-Star Game (1989, 1990, 1991, 1993)

Points – 15th(1990), 14th(1993)
Goals – 11th(1989), 16th(1991), 15th(1993)

Play-off Points – 8th(1987), 8th(1992)
Play-off Goals – 5th(1987)
Play-off Assists – 7th(1992)

Based on that, it's clear that Tocchet is better, but not by very much.

until you factor in longevity:

1144 440 512 952 -- tocchet
793 330 234 564 -- clark

after that, tocchet is well ahead.

 

[Dreakmur]

until you factor in longevity:

1144 440 512 952 -- tocchet
793 330 234 564 -- clark

after that, tocchet is well ahead.

Tocchet played from 1985 to 2002.
Clark played from 1986 to 2000.

 

[Big Phil]

Tocchet played from 1985 to 2002.
Clark played from 1986 to 2000.

Yeah but Clark was virtually finished after 1994. In fact until then he was injured every time you turned around and was never the same player once he got to Quebec. Tocchet wins this crown easily even if you don't factor in longevity. You can't give the benefit of the doubt to a guy who was injured all the time just because he "might" have been HHOFish. This is the logic why I argue against Cam Neely from time to time

 

[MS]

If both were 'on', Clark was probably the better, more dynamic player. He really was a force. If he could have stayed healthy, he would have been pretty well on a level with Neely.

But Clark spent so much of his career either injured/hobbled/in decline that this isn't really close. Tocchet played a ton more high-level hockey than Clark did.

 

[cynicism]

I love Wendel but I'd take Tocchet, even from a durability standpoint he's the better player.

 

[CLF4life]

This vid is from the late 80's but it looks like a draw to me in the fistacuffs department.

 

[seventieslord]

Clark was my favourite player for most of my life but has recently been overtaken by Dougie Gilmour.

In case you're wondering why I switched, I think Dougie was just too good and his career as a whole is so underrated that I've sort of become a champion for him. At the same time, Clark is usually overrated by people who are like I used to be. I also am not a fan of how "into" his fights he got. Sometimes he looked like he wanted to put the guy's head through the ice. Despite that, he was a fantastic fighter.

I've always thought Clark and Tocchet were about the same skill-wise, but Tocchet ultimately was what Clark could have, and should have become, if he didn't miss so many games with injuries and play so many games injured as well. Tocchet missed his share too, but I don't think it limited him to the degree that it limited Clark.

The unique thing about Clark and Tocchet, to me, is they were legitimate heavyweights who would fight (and beat up) anyone. Yeah, there have always been "power forwards" out there, Messiers, Shanahans, Tkachuks, Guerins, etc - but they tended to be middleweight fighters who would pick their spots. Clark and Tocchet would go toe to toe with the Dave Browns, Louie Debrusks, Behn Wilsons, and Bob Rouses of the league but they were also legitimate top-line forwards who could crack the top-20 in goals in a good year. The only other guy since 1980 who I think was like that, is Al Secord, another guy wrecked by injuries.

 

[Big Phil]

The unique thing about Clark and Tocchet, to me, is they were legitimate heavyweights who would fight (and beat up) anyone. Yeah, there have always been "power forwards" out there, Messiers, Shanahans, Tkachuks, Guerins, etc - but they tended to be middleweight fighters who would pick their spots. Clark and Tocchet would go toe to toe with the Dave Browns, Louie Debrusks, Behn Wilsons, and Bob Rouses of the league but they were also legitimate top-line forwards who could crack the top-20 in goals in a good year. The only other guy since 1980 who I think was like that, is Al Secord, another guy wrecked by injuries.

Yes they were. Clark was a guy you went to war with. He fought Probert, he fought McSorley. He literally embarassed Neely once if you want to see it on Youtube. Tocchet as well was a guy that I can't remember ever clearly losing a fight. He was a tough SOB. Bigger than Clark, but not any meaner.

 

[SuicideKings15]

The unique thing about Clark and Tocchet, to me, is they were legitimate heavyweights who would fight (and beat up) anyone. Yeah, there have always been "power forwards" out there, Messiers, Shanahans, Tkachuks, Guerins, etc - but they tended to be middleweight fighters who would pick their spots. Clark and Tocchet would go toe to toe with the Dave Browns, Louie Debrusks, Behn Wilsons, and Bob Rouses of the league but they were also legitimate top-line forwards who could crack the top-20 in goals in a good year. The only other guy since 1980 who I think was like that, is Al Secord, another guy wrecked by injuries.

The pride of my home-town. He was a big buy before there were many big guys in the league.

As for the debate at hand, it's Tocchet, and it's no question. Although he did have his best season playing on a wing with Lemieux, his seasons in Philadelphia are every little bit as impressive (probably more-so) than Clarks were.

 

[arrbez]

I also am not a fan of how "into" his fights he got. Sometimes he looked like he wanted to put the guy's head through the ice. Despite that, he was a fantastic fighter.

I loved how nuts Wendel went on his opposition. Way better than watching guys cordially agree to a dual, go through the motions and hug it out at the end. Wendel used to do more damage in the fights he lost than most guys today do in the fights they win. And if you were playing dirty out there, you were getting fought, whether you liked it or not. THAT is what fighting is for, to be a serious deterrent.

 

[Ohashi_Jouzu*]

I loved how nuts Wendel went on his opposition. Way better than watching guys cordially agree to a dual, go through the motions and hug it out at the end. Wendel used to do more damage in the fights he lost than most guys today do in the fights they win. And if you were playing dirty out there, you were getting fought, whether you liked it or not. THAT is what fighting is for, to be a serious deterrent.

100% agree. It's not simply a "momentum booster" or "wake up call". *tear

 

[seventieslord]

I loved how nuts Wendel went on his opposition. Way better than watching guys cordially agree to a dual, go through the motions and hug it out at the end. Wendel used to do more damage in the fights he lost than most guys today do in the fights they win. And if you were playing dirty out there, you were getting fought, whether you liked it or not. THAT is what fighting is for, to be a serious deterrent.

I'm not saying I dislike Wendel or how he went about his business, but I think usually guys like us who consider him a "good ol' prairie boy with honour" overlook the fact that he, more than anyone, kept pounding after he took the guy down. You've gotta stop at some point.

 

[RabbinsDuck]

Clark's Stud Factor does not bump him over Tocchet.

 

[ted2019]

tocchet in a landside. He was considered one of the top 3-5 Power fowards in the game during the mid to late 80's, Wendel wasn't. Besides that, as Bob Probert once said of Clark, He plays like Wendel at Home and Wendy on the road.