Richards or Kesler

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sunb

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pavel datsyuk said:
Richards:

7 Games
5 goals
6 assists
11 points
+4
2 Shorthanded
1 game winner


Has anyone changed their opinion?

I am definitely surprised but it is more of a positive miscalculation rather than a negative one. Philly is my second favorite team in the league and this gives them a strong 1-2-3-4 punch down the middle for the next 10 years with guys like Carter, Richards, Umberger and Handzus all being fairly NHL-ready.

At the same time, I still think Kesler and Richards are too close too call. While Richards is on fire offensively, he is only a +4 despite his 11 points. That means seven goals have been scored when he is on the ice. Kesler however, still leads the entire AHL playoffs with a +11. Only time will tell who becomes better.
 

cj

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
I am definitely surprised but it is more of a positive miscalculation rather than a negative one. Philly is my second favorite team in the league and this gives them a strong 1-2-3-4 punch down the middle for the next 10 years with guys like Carter, Richards, Umberger and Handzus all being fairly NHL-ready.

At the same time, I still think Kesler and Richards are too close too call. While Richards is on fire offensively, he is only a +4 despite his 11 points. That means seven goals have been scored when he is on the ice. Kesler however, still leads the entire AHL playoffs with a +11. Only time will tell who becomes better.

Or maybe it won't. I wouldnt' be surprised if we were still having the same argument 10 years from now. :)
 

paxtang

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Most of those minuses occured when he first came up and still hadn't caught up with the speed. He made a few mistakes, including a blind cross ice pass that ended up as a goal against. Since then, he's moved up to the second line and been very, very solid defensivly. He's also the Phantoms top PK guy now.
 

HabLover

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
I am definitely surprised but it is more of a positive miscalculation rather than a negative one. Philly is my second favorite team in the league and this gives them a strong 1-2-3-4 punch down the middle for the next 10 years with guys like Carter, Richards, Umberger and Handzus all being fairly NHL-ready.

At the same time, I still think Kesler and Richards are too close too call. While Richards is on fire offensively, he is only a +4 despite his 11 points. That means seven goals have been scored when he is on the ice. Kesler however, still leads the entire AHL playoffs with a +11. Only time will tell who becomes better.

Do you know how the +- works?
 

RobsonStreet

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Jun 4, 2004
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We're not going to get a good read until each have been in the bigs for two/three years, and maybe not even then. Richards has been a playoff monster for the Phantoms right off the hop, something I didn't expect. Kesler has been playing at the same high level he was for the AHL regular season. Both have done nothing but make their respective GM's look good.
 

donelikedinner

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# PLAYERS POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG SHOTS PCT
17 Kesler, Ryan C 12 4 5 9 +11 8 0 1 0 26 .154

# PLAYERS POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG SHOTS PCT
18 Richards, Mike C 7 5 6 11 +4 4 1 2 1 15 .333

for a kid that spent the season in the ohl and 5 games less in the playoffs than Kesler, i'd rather have Richards during these ahl playoffs purely on his stats compared to an ahl veteran like Kesler. as for who's better as a leader and intangibles, i'll take Richards 2 SHG & 1 GWG & .333 PCT over Kesler's same stats.

Richards is constantly under and over valued. what is proven is that he performs at every level. Richards is real, now. He will make a very positive impact for the Flyers when the NHL restarts. Can the same be said about Kesler?
 

Rabid Ranger

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donelikedinner said:
# PLAYERS POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG SHOTS PCT
17 Kesler, Ryan C 12 4 5 9 +11 8 0 1 0 26 .154

# PLAYERS POS GP G A PTS +/- PIM PPG SHG GWG SHOTS PCT
18 Richards, Mike C 7 5 6 11 +4 4 1 2 1 15 .333

for a kid that spent the season in the ohl and 5 games less in the playoffs than Kesler, i'd rather have Richards during these ahl playoffs purely on his stats compared to an ahl veteran like Kesler. as for who's better as a leader and intangibles, i'll take Richards 2 SHG & 1 GWG & .333 PCT over Kesler's same stats.

Richards is constantly under and over valued. what is proven is that he performs at every level. Richards is real, now. He will make a very positive impact for the Flyers when the NHL restarts. Can the same be said about Kesler?


Well, Vancouver thought enough of Kesler to give him an extended stint last year, where he played pretty well, so yeah, I think it could said he'll have a very positive impact with the Canucks when the NHL restarts.
 

ZombieMatt

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Personally, I would rather have Richards than Kesler. But both are good players, and both are safe prospects who will have effective NHL careers.
 

Pepper

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Richards potential is 1st-2nd liner and Kesler's marginal 2nd liner - above average 3rd liner.
 

MojoJojo

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Jovanovski = Norris said:
I am definitely surprised but it is more of a positive miscalculation rather than a negative one. Philly is my second favorite team in the league and this gives them a strong 1-2-3-4 punch down the middle for the next 10 years with guys like Carter, Richards, Umberger and Handzus all being fairly NHL-ready.

At the same time, I still think Kesler and Richards are too close too call. While Richards is on fire offensively, he is only a +4 despite his 11 points. That means seven goals have been scored when he is on the ice. Kesler however, still leads the entire AHL playoffs with a +11. Only time will tell who becomes better.

Well, considering that two goals and one assist were short handed, that number gets knocked down considerably since special teams dont usually contribute to the +- stat.
 

RandomCanuckFan

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donelikedinner said:
Richards is real, now. He will make a very positive impact for the Flyers when the NHL restarts. Can the same be said about Kesler?

Yes. Yes, it can.

However, in my opinion it is VERY close between the two. I think both of them have 2nd line potential and no higher. I might be inclined to take Richards because Kesler does not have the same offensive potential, but Kesler still may be able to out-produce Richards, we'll see. Right now, I would probably take Richards, but they're so close I don't know for sure.
 

Roger's Pancreas*

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MojoJojo said:
Well, considering that two goals and one assist were short handed, that number gets knocked down considerably since special teams dont usually contribute to the +- stat.

I always thought that a short handed goal counted as a plus one for the short handed unit and a minus one against the powerplay unit.
 

Teezax

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I love how people (Canucks fans mostly) are putting Kesler ahead of Richards in the talent field using size as their indicator? Am i missing something here? Do yourselves a favor and watch the games, anyone who thinks Kesler plays a better defensive game than Braveheart Richards has got their head on backwards. Bottom line is comparisons between junior players is a waste of time. Sure you can compare what they've done at a junior level, but until either of them have played a couple seasons in the NHL, it's all just opinion. And i agree with this Kesler = NHL proven garbage, he hasn't proven anything apart from skating on an NHL rink..

Here's hoping the Phantoms and Moose meet up in the Finals.
 

Rabid Ranger

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Teezax said:
I love how people (Canucks fans mostly) are putting Kesler ahead of Richards in the talent field using size as their indicator? Am i missing something here? Do yourselves a favor and watch the games, anyone who thinks Kesler plays a better defensive game than Braveheart Richards has got their head on backwards. Bottom line is comparisons between junior players is a waste of time. Sure you can compare what they've done at a junior level, but until either of them have played a couple seasons in the NHL, it's all just opinion. And i agree with this Kesler = NHL proven garbage, he hasn't proven anything apart from skating on an NHL rink..

Here's hoping the Phantoms and Moose meet up in the Finals.


Well, size isn't a talent, but it CAN be an important factor when determing how successful a player will be at the next level. The fact is, Kesler is significantly bigger than Richards, and is a better skater. Does that mean he'll be a better player at the NHL level than Richards? No, but it's an important advantage to have. As for skill, defensive play, and "intangibles," it's arguable that Richards is superior in those areas, and even if he is, it's not by a significant margin. Draw your own conclusions.
 

FearTheFlyers

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The argument Kesler is better than Richards because he has played in the NHL is absurd, absolutely ridicolous. I guess McKenna>Zinovjev too...

Take off your glasses Canuck fans, Richards is clearly the better player.
 

Teezax

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Rabid Ranger said:
Well, size isn't a talent, but it CAN be an important factor when determing how successful a player will be at the next level. The fact is, Kesler is significantly bigger than Richards, and is a better skater. Does that mean he'll be a better player at the NHL level than Richards? No, but it's an important advantage to have. As for skill, defensive play, and "intangibles," it's arguable that Richards is superior in those areas, and even if he is, it's not by a significant margin. Draw your own conclusions.

I don't know, to me size means nothing, i think we've had enough players prove that to us. Antropov is a joke, St Louis is a hart winner. That's one comparison, yet many gm's would have had Antro way higher than St Louis on their lists.. Most of the NHL's best players are 6 flat and lower.

Sakic 5'11
Yzerman 5'10
Roenick 6'
Forsberg 6'
Datsyuk 5'11
Demitra 6'0
Drury 5'11
St Louis 5'9
Brad Richards 6'0
Kariya 5'10
Selanne 6'0
Naslund 6'0
Gretzky 6'0


That's just from the top of my head, I invite anyone with the size argument to come forward now and find me a list of players over 6'0 that can compare to this list.

And i won't even include the likes of Howe and Lafleur both at 6 flat.
 

sunb

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Teezax said:
I don't know, to me size means nothing, i think we've had enough players prove that to us. Antropov is a joke, St Louis is a hart winner. That's one comparison, yet many gm's would have had Antro way higher than St Louis on their lists.. Most of the NHL's best players are 6 flat and lower.

Sakic 5'11
Yzerman 5'10
Roenick 6'
Forsberg 6'
Datsyuk 5'11
Demitra 6'0
Drury 5'11
St Louis 5'9
Brad Richards 6'0
Kariya 5'10
Selanne 6'0
Naslund 6'0
Gretzky 6'0


That's just from the top of my head, I invite anyone with the size argument to come forward now and find me a list of players over 6'0 that can compare to this list.

And i won't even include the likes of Howe and Lafleur both at 6 flat.

How many 5'9'' - 6'0'' players are there who play a similiar style of game as to Richards'?
 

Pepper

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MojoJojo said:
Well, considering that two goals and one assist were short handed, that number gets knocked down considerably since special teams dont usually contribute to the +- stat.

SH goal gives the team with man disadvantage a + and a - to the team with man advantage.

PP goals don't add + or - to either team.
 

Pepper

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Rabid Ranger said:
Well, size isn't a talent, but it CAN be an important factor when determing how successful a player will be at the next level. The fact is, Kesler is significantly bigger than Richards, and is a better skater. Does that mean he'll be a better player at the NHL level than Richards? No, but it's an important advantage to have.

People, mark this post down for the next time certain posters start hyping Jack Johnson and Phill Kessel...
 

hockeyfan125

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GagneOwnsYou said:
The argument Kesler is better than Richards because he has played in the NHL is absurd, absolutely ridicolous. I guess McKenna>Zinovjev too...

Take off your glasses Canuck fans, Richards is clearly the better player.
From an unbiased opinion too. :biglaugh:
 
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