me2
Go ahead foot
Eb0la11 said:
You come into a thread entitled "Richards or Kesler" and complain people are talking about Kesler (and Richards).
Richards or Kesler
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You come into a thread entitled "Richards or Kesler" and complain people are talking about Kesler (and Richards).
me2 said:
LOL no I was moreso complaining about Canucks fans who actually think they have the best quality of players in the entire league in every category including net and prospects, which they obviously dont. Also I have seen Richards a heck of alot more than the WJC, I went to all 3 of the summer training camp in Calgary (where Im from) as well as seen him on TV a few times, Ive seen him at least ten times. Yes my viewing of Kesler is quite limited as he plays not so near to me or on TV where I live. But, based on what I have seen, read, his draft position and Richards draft position and comparability to players drafted above him now (him surpassing alot of those higher drafted players on depth charts) leads me to the opinion Richards is quite a bit better.
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
Eb0la11 said:
could you point out those canuck fans that actually think we have a great group of prospects?
Our prospects overall suck compared to the rest of the league. But that doesn't take anything away from Kesler - who is a legitimate top prosepct, and a sure-fire NHLer.
And I think most canuck fans will agree with this. We all know how bad our prospect groups are.
But basing that on Richards being better than Kesler is flawed. Kesler so far has proven more. He's already played in the NHL (as an 18YO rookie) and did well. He has all the tools - including size and speed (which Richards could improve on)... the biggest knock on him was offense - always considered a top defensive prospect who should be a great 3rd liner, but his offense was always the criticism... that is until this year, where he broke out of sorts as a 20YO in the AHL, and was the MVP of his team - and now one of the key members in the playoffs for his team.
Thinking that Richards is better is subjective - just like saying that Kesler is better... but certainly no reason to take shots at canuck fans as a whole. I think very highly of Kesler now (although admittedly was disappointed when we picked him)... and your posts suggest that I must be a homer if I value Kesler higher than Richards, while if I valued Richards more, I wouldn't be???
Based on what you've seen and read - all of 10 times watching Richards play, and not watching Kesler even that much, you've concluded that Richards must be better - well that sounds quite homerish to me.
Fact is that they have each proved enough to not consider one at a different level than the other. Personally I like the fact that Kesler has proved his importance to the team at the AHL level, and has all the tools to be effective in the NHL. Richards still has to prove he can have as good an AHL season as Kesler's had, and then prove that he can overcome his size to play as rugged in a physically more challenging NHL. Kesler not only has size, he's got elite skating ability as well, which will certainly help his transition to the NHL.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Eb0la11 said:
Richards may end up the better player, but none of the criteria you're using is a surefire way to prove that.
Eb0la11 said:
Find me one Canucks fan on this entire site that believes the Canucks have the best prospects and the best goaltender in the NHL. No really, try and find one.
Look, it's fairly obvious that there's not much to be excited about in the Canucks system. So you'll have to forgive us if we get extra-excited about one of the few good prospects we have.
How good Kesler is has nothing to do with how good the rest of the system is. But to get back on topic, in your opinion, what makes Richards quite a bit better than Kesler? Is it homeristic to consider Kesler on the same level as Richards? We're talking about two very similar types of players, drafted one after the other in the same draft year, that have both progressed very well since being drafted. I'm not quite sure I see the problem here.
NFITO
hockeyinsanity*****
cj said:
Find me one Canucks fan on this entire site that believes the Canucks have the best prospects and the best goaltender in the NHL. No really, try and find one.
Look, it's fairly obvious that there's not much to be excited about in the Canucks system. So you'll have to forgive us if we get extra-excited about one of the few good prospects we have.
But to get back on topic, in your opinion, what makes Richards quite a bit better than Kesler? Is it homeristic to consider Kesler on the same level as Richards? We're talking about two very similar types of players, drafted one after the other in the same draft year, that have both progressed very well since being drafted. I'm not quite sure I see the problem here.
the problem is that he's seen 10 games in which Richards has played and is excited about him, whereas he hasn't had a chance to see Kesler play, and therefore will rate him on his draft position and early media reports on him
me2
Go ahead foot
Eb0la11 said:
That's news to me.
Dmen: exactly which Dmen are the Nucks fans trumpeting as being amoungst the elite? Most think our best prospects on defense have an upside to reach 3-4th dman status. That's the ceiling of the best, its not good depth. Koltsov & Elder are the only wildcards, and they aren't coveted elite prospects.
Forwards: As for quality forward prospects, well there is Kesler and err that's about it. King will probably play in the NHL but be lesser player. A handful of others might make the NHL but likely won't be of much note.
Goal: Well we do actually have some quality and some depth. Schneider was excellent this year overall, Ellis-Plante impressed. Auld will be in the NHL next year, though I don't rate him that highly (certainly not elite, lesser starter/good backup). Are any of these guys in the same elite league of goalie prospects with Lehtonen, Fluery? I don't think so. But they aren't out of place with the goalie prospects a the level or so lower.
Well Mike Richards is doing pretty good in the AHL playoffs at the moment.
Stats, GP, G,A,PTS,+/-,PIM
Richards:4-2-3-5, -1 4
Kesler: 8-4-4-8, 10, 4
So far it looks like Richards is doign pretty good in his little stint in the playoffs.
Stats, GP, G,A,PTS,+/-,PIM
Richards:4-2-3-5, -1 4
Kesler: 8-4-4-8, 10, 4
So far it looks like Richards is doign pretty good in his little stint in the playoffs.
Rabid Ranger
2 is better than one
Pepper said:
Another level than who, Kesler? From what I've seen, Kesler exhibits those qualities in spades.
With both players teams 3-1 in the 2nd round, there's a fair chance of them meeting up in the finals. That would be a pretty interesting take on this thread 
Of course (assuming all the 3-1 teams close out) Manitoba will be an underdog against Chicago but this isn't exactly a great year for the upper seeds, so who knows?
Of course (assuming all the 3-1 teams close out) Manitoba will be an underdog against Chicago but this isn't exactly a great year for the upper seeds, so who knows?
Pepper said:
Ryan Kesler has been playing an amazing two-way game in the AHL playoffs.
He leads the entire AHL in +/- with a +/- of 10. I don't recall a single goal being scored against Manitoba with his presence on the ice.
Pepper said:
Kesler's defese>Richards' defence
Kesler's offence>>Richards' offence
Kelser's size>>>Richards' size
^
The first two are highly debatable. I especially don't see any evidence that Kesler's offence is THAT much better than Richards. If anything, it's the other way around though I'd say they're pretty similar.
The first two are highly debatable. I especially don't see any evidence that Kesler's offence is THAT much better than Richards. If anything, it's the other way around though I'd say they're pretty similar.
monster_bertuzzi said:
Richards scored a goal in his first professional game and a short handed goal in his third game. Just this year he was rated unanimously by ohl coaches to be the best penalty killer. I will agree with Kesler's size being better than Mike Richard's but the other two are off IMO.
Kesler's defence<<Richard's defence
Kesler's offence<Richard's offence
Kesler's size>>Richard's size. (He's three to four inches taller depending which source you looking at.)
hockeyfan125
Registered User
- Jul 10, 2004
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Have you ever seen Ryan Kesler play hockey? Most of these people in here are just people who have seen Richards play at the WJC, or a few games. There is no way that either of these players are better than the other at offense or defense, its a pretty even comparison. Ryan Kesler has shut-down some of the best AHL players this year, while scoring 30 goals, too. Mike Richards is also a nice player, and I'm sure both will turn out to be 3rd/2nd line studs for their respective teams.Panasonic Youth said:
The way I see it....
Richards offense >= Keslers offense
Richards defense =< Keslers defense
Richards size << Keslers size
me2
Go ahead foot
jtuzzi21 said:
Richards offense > Keslers offense
Richards defense < Keslers defense
Richards size < Keslers size
Richards skating < Keslers skating
Richards intangibles > Keslers intangibles
Way too close to call at present.
Panasonic Youth said:
I don't think you can make judgements about the first two just yet.
I think both categories in offense and defense are too close too call as of yet.
However, if someone had a gun up to my head, I'd be inclined to give Kesler the slight nod in both categories simply because he is doing it in the AHL rather than the OHL.
Kesler leads the entire AHL playoffs in +/- with 10. I don't think a goal has been scored against the Moose when he's on the ice. Richards on the other is a -1 in four AHL playoff games.
Kesler has 4 goals and 4 assists in 9 playoff games and 30 goals and 27 assists in the AHL regular season. Richards scored 58 points in the OHL.
Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
Richards:
7 Games
5 goals
6 assists
11 points
+4
2 Shorthanded
1 game winner
Has anyone changed their opinion?
7 Games
5 goals
6 assists
11 points
+4
2 Shorthanded
1 game winner
Has anyone changed their opinion?
Twist and Shout
Registered User
Vatican Roulette
Baile de Los Locos
sevenSteen said:
well, thats your opinion, and i respect that.
It just seems to me that this whole thread posters were giving Kesler the upper hand ebcause he was 'proven' at the AHL level.
Well, Richards is handling himself just fine, even out-producing Carter (PPG).
My opinion was that it was very close between the two, but I might be inclined to pick Richards because I believed he has somewhat higher offensive potential. I believe the statistics you posted support that opinion so no, my opinion has not changed.
It is a very impressive showing by Richards, another player who's offensive abilities have often been underrated because he's not flashy. It's for the same reason why Andrew Ladd gets so much flak around here, or why Kesler was considered to have "hands of stone." It just goes to show there's more to producing at the pro level than stickhandling.
It is a very impressive showing by Richards, another player who's offensive abilities have often been underrated because he's not flashy. It's for the same reason why Andrew Ladd gets so much flak around here, or why Kesler was considered to have "hands of stone." It just goes to show there's more to producing at the pro level than stickhandling.
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