Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by GSC2k2*, Jun 6, 2007.
Some great tidbits:
RE the lease:
- Balsillie's offer is NOT contingent upon Leipold giving notice under the lease (which notice has not been given at this time).
- the 14,000 attendance clause is a cumulative average; that is, the attendance must average 14,000 over the two seasons combined. Paid attendance last year was 13,815. Accordingly, attendance next year must be 14,185.
- the city's obligation to pick up tickets must be at the average price at that time.
- the lawyer's interpretation is that the tickets cannot be bought at season's end to make up a shortfall (not definitive though).
- the city is still maintaining the position that the notice cannot be given until after next year (if applicable).
- the lease rent is $150,000 per month. ("a very good lease").
RE "territorial rights":
- the applicable line is the city's corporate limits (not the arena).
- they believe that Hamilton is outside the territorial rights of Buffalo, but is inside Toronto.
- however, the position re Buffalo is based on merely the fact that Buffalo has never demanded compensation for exhibition games at Hamilton, despite Toronto being paid (omiting the fact that the last Hamilton game was a Buffalo game - weak argument - why would they pay themselves?).
- for the last exhibition game in Hamilton, they paid the Leafs $300,000 (!!).
- he messed up on his interpretation of the NHL constitution. He quoted the provision which is an absolute prohibition on relocation, but then mixed it in with th eprovision regarding the granting of franchises (expansion franchises). He was really muddled on this point.
- the $220 million price quoted is LOW (!!!). The real price is between $220 and $240 million.
After listening to that I'm 100% sure that the team is gone. That lawyer in looking for every possible loophole to move the team. He mentioned that they already have relocation approval.
This is disheartening. Man, way to grow the sport by pissing off an entire region. Could have this have happened to my Canes this easily? Evidently, yeap.
As a fan, there will be hell to pay, NHL. Chink in the armor, I could lose interest in this sport very easily.
I actually didn't take it that way. I felt he made it clear that so long as there's a lease, the Preds are in Nashville. And the Preds have a lease so long as the cumulative average tickets are met --- which we as fans/city control.
Am I missing something?
You're arguing with "Gnee-jerk Gnashville"
I take it mostly the same way as you do, though...nothing we didn't know. I think we'll be okay this season, and as long as the city\fans don't get complacent, for the foreseeable future--IF Balsillie doesn't do anything underhanded(gut the team, cut marketing, etc)
Sounds like they are quite intent on moving.
Let's face it, whatever team Balsillie Buys will be moved to Southern Ontario, Whether it be Hamilton or another town in the region. If your team is being bought up by this guy, you can bet for sure your going to be losing that team whenever feasably possible.
The Reason he backed out of the Pens deal was cause he knew the board of Gs would never approve a relocation of a long term franchise. He actually thought the team was close to landing the Isle of Capri deal and knew that trying to relocate would be a futile effort.
I'm not saying i wouldn't be against having another SO ONT team. It just his corporate raider attitude makes me not like this guy one bit. His lawyer comes off as some ambulance chaser. He sounds like he's always looking for an excuse to sue.
Oh and here's a reality check on the territorial rights in hamilton. Balsillie will have to pay the Leafs and the Sabres something for the right to relocate. It doesn't have to be in some law in the constitution By-laws; If they don't pay those two teams something to move to hammertown, the Board of Gov. will never pass their relocation vote; classic good ol boys watching each other's back.
Then it's dead team skating.
Either he signs the deal and immediately calls Poile to deal with the free agents to get this "close" team over the hump, or tells Poile to have faith in Fiddler, Smithson, Matt Ellison, and the Euros. Otherwise, he signs the deal and calls Poile to let him go and then calls someone like Bobby Clarke.
just did a search on mapquest, and buffalo falls JUST outside the 50 mile buffer zone. Toronto obviously is just inside. The key is getting the BoG to approve the sale. Until a reputable source says they approved it's all going to be up in the air and balsillie can make all the deals he wants and they'll crumble if the sale isn't approved.
Are you getting "as the crow flies" or driving distance? Are you accurately measuring the minimum distance between the corporate limits of each city?
Yeah, I can't see how all of a sudden Buffalo is outside the territory, when for years it's been said over and over that it's in.
Just a heads up regarding territorial rights... I think Balsillie may have something up his sleeve in orfer to get around this.... read today's National Post: http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/story.html?id=2ee34bd7-d43a-4cf5-bd9c-4aa1ccdbecf7
Pretty much, SOMEONE called the Competition Bureau on the NHL regarding their territorial rights and it looks like that the whole Idea of them could be found to be illegal... hence, if they were, any team coming into the S. ONT region WOULDNT have to pay anyone anything.
Pretty smooth move on Balsillie's part if this is whats being worked on.
If that was Balsillie's action, then he's grasping at straws. It's being "investigated," but I'll eat the keyboard I type this on if they're able to pull it off..and then...Buffalo isn't in Canada, so there's nothing that could be done about that.
We already have a thread about this.
Well it happen to Hartford...
You know the team you got.
Tell that to the fans in Hartford, Winnipeg and Quebec City.
It's business and if the region isn't providing the revenue that another region can then that's what happens. Have you never seen a retail franchise close up shop in one location only to open up in another one? They tried to grow the sport in Nashville, but it seems like the sport can only grow to 13,815 people willing to actually pay for that sport in a city of over 600,000. I think Winnipeg would support an NHL team much butter than Nashville has. If I'm an owner with no local ties (Balsillie) then I'm gonna be open to markets which will increase my profit margin. Don't fault the NHL or Balsillie on this, the 'fault' lies with the fans in Nashville who aren't really willing to put their money where their mouths are so to speak.
Edit: The population of the metropolitan area around and including Nashville is over 1.5 million people.
Entirely different situation to a great extent. Then again, I know dumb ass Canadians on this board would ever figure that point out.
Yeah, I said it.
Different situation, sure, but the poster just said the team moved. Didn't mention any reasons. Grow up. Oh, and you forgot your 'n'.
To be perfectly frank, if there was enough interest in the region in the first place, Nashville wouldnt be in this position today. It needs to be reiterated again and again, but the NHL is a business, and if nobody is willing to own a team in Nashville, then there will be no team in Nashville, regardless of the sentimental "grow the game" argument.
And you would then become a contributor to why teams like Nashville are failing: because there is not enough interest, and there are not enough die hards to make it work.
I am curious, would you stop shopping at Walmart if they close an unprofitable store?
point taken. my mistake for not thinking before posting. went back and tried to get more of an "as the crow flies" measure. moving more between smaller cities through the niagara region. kind of stepping up as best i could. Would definitely put buffalo well in the 50 mile buffer. Usually i catch these things before i get called out, but no matter, just glad i was asked for clarification.
And you wonder WHY the NHL is failing in these markets? Christ.
The elephant in the room, however, is the fact that Balsillie CANNOT break the lease and CANNOT move the team .... unless the fans don't make up the 14k+ in attendance.
All of this is a MOOT point if the Preds fans come through .... and I fully suspect they will.
Separate names with a comma.