RFA Qualifying Offers Deadline

Dr.Sens(e)

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Feb 27, 2002
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well this just means that QO's should be accepted or rejected prior to FA starting ... which would be my preferred method, if it were up to me.

In the real world NHL, agents know within the first 48 hours or so whether there is going to be interest. Even if a formal offer doesn't come, GM's will let agents know one might be. So in the NHL, agents can figure out pretty quickly whether to just accept the QO or not. Not to mention they figure it out and get hints before FA even begins. In the HFNHL, this isn't the case.

yup and the players that take their early QO miss out on this payday OR they can gamble they will get a 2nd round offer better than the QO. why should they get their cake and eat it too?

You are acting like the QO is some lottery win. The bottom line is each GM signed a player to a contract, and if they are a RFA, you know they are not going to take a pay cut without testing free agency. You signed them to the offer, if you want to keep them, they aren't going to take a pay cut. If you think they are worth less, DON'T qualify them, and let them test FA waters. It's really quite simple.

The difference is in the NHL, teams actually cut loose their RFA's and don't tender offers. In the HFNHL, GM's qualify every player with a pulse - and even a few that don't have one if they haven't been keeping track of current events.

and as a GM, i would like to be able to take the same approach and say - hey Mr Mike Duco, you didnt take the 1,062,000 QO, and now i am not offering you a penny more than the league min.

in that example, why should Mike Duco get to sit on a QO that is almost twice what his market value is, just to see if by chance he can get more, with no downside risk?

If his QO is twice his market value, you're an idiot for qualifying him first off. And yes, he's going to take it. The only reason he doesn't sign before FA because the agents don't have time to go through all the offers to figure out the no brainer acceptances. Easier to go through them all together after free agency and the dust has settled.

But the reality is GM's don't typically complain about the Mike Duco's of the world. It is typically some quality young RFA with significant potential they want to sign dirt cheap for 4 years at a pay cut below last year's salary, all because they didn't get an offer sheet. This isn't how the NHL works, so I don't think the HFNHL should. Agents get a lot of these offers, and they are indeed time wasters for everyone involved.

again, if the reason for not implementing this adjustment simply comes down to workload, then so be it, who am i to ask the few to do even more. but otherwise i disagree with the logistics of this process and feel QO's should be accepted/rejected prior to free agency bidding. a player who rejects his QO is an RFA and free to negotiate with any team but without the QO in his pocket.

wouldnt it be just a matter of reviewing the QO offers prior to opening FA and sorting them as accepted/rejected? rejected QO's are RFA and then we go on with the FA process as usual, QO season over.

i would volunteer to do that but without the context of a season of negotiating as an agent, it is very difficult to determine if the QO should be accepted.

As you note yourself, it is a judgement call of whether to accept it. And frankly, it's a lot easier to just wait than have the agents go through HUNDREDS of RFA's to evaluate each one and decide whether they should sign or not (which would involve some research for many players, frankly). Easier to just let the market decide. For 75% of the RFA's, we could probably just sign them. The rest are in the grey area of whether they could possibly get an offer sheet, of which only a small % do. But it is not insignificant by any means.

Either way, in my experience, any time we let agents "judge" who should accept a QO, and who should not, it will lead to great debate and protests from GM's who feel they have been wronged. "Why did his guy take a QO, and mine didn't !!!", "I got screwed!". It would be a poor process. Again, just let the market decide.

In the end, do you have some examples of RFA's that didn't accept a QO originally, but then did later, and show how the team really got screwed? I always find this argument strange when GM's compain about HAVING to pay the QO, when (A) they signed them to the original contract and knew what the QO would be, (B) They offered them in the QO a month, if not weeks earlier and the guy's value hasn't dropped during the summer, and (C) it is always because the agent won't accept the dirt cheap 4 year deal.

The bottom line, is if you offered Mike Duco a 4 year deal at the league minimum, as agents, we would simply say no thanks, let him sit on your prospect list and be done with it until next year, at which time he would be a year older and closer to UFA, and you would still need to tender a QO 10% higher than the last one.

Just curious, but can you give me an NHL example of where a pending RFA took a major pay cut on a long-term deal to stay with the same team, versus just testing free agency? So why do you think this should take place in the HFNHL?
 

Brent Burns Beard

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Feb 27, 2002
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In the real world NHL, agents know within the first 48 hours or so whether there is going to be interest. Even if a formal offer doesn't come, GM's will let agents know one might be. So in the NHL, agents can figure out pretty quickly whether to just accept the QO or not. Not to mention they figure it out and get hints before FA even begins. In the HFNHL, this isn't the case.



You are acting like the QO is some lottery win. The bottom line is each GM signed a player to a contract, and if they are a RFA, you know they are not going to take a pay cut without testing free agency. You signed them to the offer, if you want to keep them, they aren't going to take a pay cut. If you think they are worth less, DON'T qualify them, and let them test FA waters. It's really quite simple.

The difference is in the NHL, teams actually cut loose their RFA's and don't tender offers. In the HFNHL, GM's qualify every player with a pulse - and even a few that don't have one if they haven't been keeping track of current events.



If his QO is twice his market value, you're an idiot for qualifying him first off. And yes, he's going to take it. The only reason he doesn't sign before FA because the agents don't have time to go through all the offers to figure out the no brainer acceptances. Easier to go through them all together after free agency and the dust has settled.

But the reality is GM's don't typically complain about the Mike Duco's of the world. It is typically some quality young RFA with significant potential they want to sign dirt cheap for 4 years at a pay cut below last year's salary, all because they didn't get an offer sheet. This isn't how the NHL works, so I don't think the HFNHL should. Agents get a lot of these offers, and they are indeed time wasters for everyone involved.



As you note yourself, it is a judgement call of whether to accept it. And frankly, it's a lot easier to just wait than have the agents go through HUNDREDS of RFA's to evaluate each one and decide whether they should sign or not (which would involve some research for many players, frankly). Easier to just let the market decide. For 75% of the RFA's, we could probably just sign them. The rest are in the grey area of whether they could possibly get an offer sheet, of which only a small % do. But it is not insignificant by any means.

Either way, in my experience, any time we let agents "judge" who should accept a QO, and who should not, it will lead to great debate and protests from GM's who feel they have been wronged. "Why did his guy take a QO, and mine didn't !!!", "I got screwed!". It would be a poor process. Again, just let the market decide.

In the end, do you have some examples of RFA's that didn't accept a QO originally, but then did later, and show how the team really got screwed? I always find this argument strange when GM's compain about HAVING to pay the QO, when (A) they signed them to the original contract and knew what the QO would be, (B) They offered them in the QO a month, if not weeks earlier and the guy's value hasn't dropped during the summer, and (C) it is always because the agent won't accept the dirt cheap 4 year deal.

The bottom line, is if you offered Mike Duco a 4 year deal at the league minimum, as agents, we would simply say no thanks, let him sit on your prospect list and be done with it until next year, at which time he would be a year older and closer to UFA, and you would still need to tender a QO 10% higher than the last one.

Just curious, but can you give me an NHL example of where a pending RFA took a major pay cut on a long-term deal to stay with the same team, versus just testing free agency? So why do you think this should take place in the HFNHL?


hey Nick ... instead of refuting your points, i just want to say i appreciate the effort in your reply and out of respect for the hard work you and the others put into the league, i will bow out of this gracefully.


if i bring this subject up again, feel free to slap me with trout.
 

Wildman

Registered User
Feb 28, 2002
1,942
35
Toronto
All QO offers that has been accepted is included with the free agency signing tab at the sticky tab.
 

Canuck09

Registered User
Jul 4, 2004
2,040
197
Vancouver
You have a right to send in your last offer before 11.59pm of June 30th, 2012. If the offer is in, we will respond but necessary accept.

Ouch. I was on the fence about a player still, guess my decision was made for me. Did I miss this deadline being announced somewhere else before?
 

Ohio Jones

Game on...
Feb 28, 2002
8,257
201
Great White North
Look at post 33. Real,y read the question that is posted in there. For crying out loud.

Gotcha.

I take this to mean that, as in previous years, any offers to your own pending free agents - both UFA and RFA - have to be submitted by midnight June 30th.

It's a consistent deadline each year, and not unreasonable: people have known all year that their player's contract was going to expire - they had ample time to address the situation.
 

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