Proposal: Revisited: Buffalo + Ottawa

[Neutrinos]

Sabres don't want this why?

In our position I'd love to add that (who wouldn't though?)

As I said in my previous message, the Sabres are looking to win now, but have quite a few holes in their lineup

Post-trade, their lineup would look something like this:

Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Brown/Reinhart
Olofsson/Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart/Brown
Duclair - White - Johansson

That's a solid top 9, but if Cozens isn't ready next season, White can slide into the #2 slot for a year with Tierney in the #3 spot

 

[Neutrinos]

Not thinking of anyone in particular, just what I'd want if we traded the pick but I hope we keep it.

Our 1C is filled, Cozens looks to be a good bet to fill our 2C, solid top-6 wingers in Olofsson/Reinhart/Skinner at decent ages.

That's your top 2 centers and 3/4 wingers I'm confident in, I care less about the bottom-6 and those players are easier to find (still have some players in the pipeline that could fill there anyway)

I guess I'd rather have the shot to add a high end player for a long time to our already young/skilled core. Eichel isn't 24 yet and Dahlin doesn't even turn 20 for like 2 more weeks, I'm in absolutely no rush. Give me the (possible) highly skilled player.

That's certainly a reasonable stance to take

The only thing I would say is that I think the incoming players for Buffalo in this proposal are A) solid pieces, and B) young enough to be part of the current core you mentioned

If Buffalo swings and misses at the draft, and winds up with nothing to show for yet another lottery pick, they're considerably worse going forward than they would be had they taken this deal

 

[GOALOFSSON]

As I said in my previous message, the Sabres are looking to win now, but have quite a few holes in their lineup

Post-trade, their lineup would look something like this:

Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Brown/Reinhart
Olofsson/Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart/Brown
Duclair - White - Johansson

That's a solid top 9, but if Cozens isn't ready next season, White can slide into the #2 slot for a year with Tierney in the #3 spot

We posted at the same time but my recent comment explains we aren't really in a win now mode despite what a lot of our fans think.

Eichel 23 (24 at the start of next season)

Dahlin still 19

Cozens I think just turned 19

Sam/Vic are 24/25

Our would be goalies of the future are 21 and 20

I don't think we are win now at all and have a long healthy cup window coming up, I'd take another chance with the high pick.
I guess even if we were win now I'd still highly value the pick though.

As for the rest, I don't think we need to trade Okposo just yet and I don't want to give up on Mittelstadt yet either.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

That's certainly a reasonable stance to take

The only thing I would say is that I think the incoming players for Buffalo in this proposal are A) solid pieces, and B) young enough to be part of the current core you mentioned

If Buffalo swings and misses at the draft, and winds up with nothing to show for yet another lottery pick, they're considerably worse going forward than they would be had they taken this deal

I don't necessarily disagree, I just highly value the potential of the pick and am probably being a bit greedy.

If we hit on the pick... well I already think highly of what we have but it would be great.

 

[Neutrinos]

We posted at the same time but my recent comment explains we aren't really in a win now mode despite what a lot of our fans think.

Eichel 23 (24 at the start of next season)

Dahlin still 19

Cozens I think just turned 19

Sam/Vic are 24/25

Our would be goalies of the future are 21 and 20

I don't think we are win now at all and have a long healthy cup window coming up, I'd take another chance with the high pick.
I guess even if we were win now I'd still highly value the pick though.

As for the rest, I don't think we need to trade Okposo just yet and I don't want to give up on Mittelstadt yet either.

I'm all for playing the long game, so I can't fault you for wanting to swing for the fences with the pick

That's why I'm surprised so many view this as a negative for Ottawa given where they are in their rebuild

 

[Reddawg]

When is the last time anyone saw six roster players change hands in a single deal? Just pointless.

 

[RebuildinVan]

OP youre the only one who ever agrees with any of your proposals....kinda says it all

 

[Djp]

As I said in my previous message, the Sabres are looking to win now, but have quite a few holes in their lineup

Post-trade, their lineup would look something like this:

Skinner/Olofsson - Eichel - Brown/Reinhart
Olofsson/Skinner - Cozens - Reinhart/Brown
Duclair - White - Johansson

That's a solid top 9, but if Cozens isn't ready next season, White can slide into the #2 slot for a year with Tierney in the #3 spot

Buffalo acquired Kahn who is top 9

Brown isn’t top 6 talent

Not trading a top 10 pick for any of that from Ottawa and include a 21 yr old in Mittlestadt who still has skill makes this nuts

 

[Djp]

When is the last time anyone saw six roster players change hands in a single deal? Just pointless.

Buffalo Winnipeg trade for Kane-Myers

 

[Jim Bob]

Buffalo Winnipeg trade for Kane-Myers

That trade only had 4 real roster players in it (Kane, Bogo, Myers, & Stafford).

Kasdorf, Armia, & Lemieux were all prospects at the time of the trade.

 

[Neutrinos]

Buffalo acquired Kahn who is top 9

Brown isn’t top 6 talent

Not trading a top 10 pick for any of that from Ottawa and include a 21 yr old in Mittlestadt who still has skill makes this nuts

In a vacuum, no, Brown isn't a top 6 talent, but he either is Hyman in Toronto

Top lines often have a hardworking defensively responsible winger to compliment the big guns, and I think Brown could thrive in that role in Buffalo

 

[lauraP]

In a vacuum, no, Brown isn't a top 6 talent, but he either is Hyman in Toronto

Top lines often have a hardworking defensively responsible winger to compliment the big guns, and I think Brown could thrive in that role in Buffalo

why are you arguing with people ? everyone is telling you your trades make no sense for either team and you just keep pushing it. NO means NO

 

[Neutrinos]

why are you arguing with people ? everyone is telling you your trades make no sense for either team and you just keep pushing it. NO means NO

I was under the impression this was a forum for sharing and discussing varying ideas and opinions

 

[lauraP]

I was under the impression this was a forum for sharing and discussing varying ideas and opinions

not when you make 3 threads with the same premise in which everyone who comments tells you it makes no sense for their team.

 

[Langdon Alger]

I may know little about value, but I do know the difference between "your" and "you're", so I'm one up on you there

Wonderful, so why don’t you become an English teacher rather than wasting our time with your garbage trade proposals?

 

[GOilers88]

A rebuilding team that isn't expected to be competitive for a few seasons shouldn't be signing "nice, not great" players to extensions

Those kinds of players should be traded for picks that could potentially produce a great player

None of the four guys you've proposed from Ottawa are above the age of 25. They're all (Brown is close) legitimate NHL players, albeit "complimentary" as you say.
You do realize that Ottawa still have to actually ice a team, right?

They have 3 first round picks, two of which could be top five, 9 in the first three rounds and a total of 22 picks over 14 rounds in the next two drafts.

Why would a team who is already into their rebuild go and trade away 4 young, good NHL players who will still be in their primes in 3 to 4 years from now for another 1st round pick this year, a cap dump, and a prospect who has 34 points in 114 NHL games?

We still haven't mentioned that Ottawa has the fifth lowest payroll in the entire league, meaning the other half of your thinking is so that a team that is already well below the cap with sparce NHL talent currently on their roster wants to trade these four good young cost controlled players to free up ANOTHER 10 million in cap space that they don't even need.

I'm not sure you thought this proposal, and your follow up posts defending it through. At all.

 

[Neutrinos]

None of the four guys you've proposed from Ottawa are above the age of 25. They're all (Brown is close) legitimate NHL players, albeit "complimentary" as you say.
You do realize that Ottawa still have to actually ice a team, right?

They have 3 first round picks, two of which could be top five, 9 in the first three rounds and a total of 22 picks over 14 rounds in the next two drafts.

Why would a team who is already into their rebuild go and trade away 4 young, good NHL players who will still be in their primes in 3 to 4 years from now for another 1st round pick this year, a cap dump, and a prospect who has 34 points in 114 NHL games?

We still haven't mentioned that Ottawa has the fifth lowest payroll in the entire league, meaning the other half of your thinking is so that a team that is already well below the cap with sparce NHL talent currently on their roster wants to trade these four good young cost controlled players to free up ANOTHER 10 million in cap space that they don't even need.

I'm not sure you thought this proposal, and your follow up posts defending it through. At all.

Because I don't think a rebuilding team should be committing long term cap space to complimentary players, regardless of their age

Look at Zaitsev in Toronto. He was a complimentary piece that the team signed long term during their rebuild, and then had to move his salary in order to sign their foundational players

So instead of signing complimentary players to long term deals, I would use that cap space to sign veterans to one year deals, hope they have a good first half of the season, and then flip those players at the deadline for more picks with the idea that, like Toronto, the core players with star potential will be entering their prime as the team is ready to contend

You may disagree with this approach, but I've thought it through

 

[GOilers88]

Because I don't think a rebuilding team should be committing long term cap space to complimentary players, regardless of their age

Look at Zaitsev in Toronto. He was a complimentary piece that the team signed long term during their rebuild, and then had to move his salary in order to sign their foundational players

So instead of signing complimentary players to long term deals, I would use that cap space to sign veterans to one year deals, hope they have a good first half of the season, and then flip those players at the deadline for more picks with the idea that, like Toronto, the core players with star potential will be entering their prime as the team is ready to contend

You may disagree with this approach, but I've thought it through

You seem to assume that all four of those guys (Actually 3 cause White just signed a six year extension at a pretty good hit), are going to get long term, expensive deals.

It seems to be that your approach is to ice a team full of rookies and old vets while in the meantime hoping you snag franchise players in a draft and that playing on really shitty teams with no complimentary support doesn't destroy the prospect development.

I don't think you have.

 

[Neutrinos]

You seem to assume that all four of those guys (Actually 3 cause White just signed a six year extension at a pretty good hit), are going to get long term, expensive deals.

It seems to be that your approach is to ice a team full of rookies and old vets while in the meantime hoping you snag franchise players in a draft and that playing on really shitty teams with no complimentary support doesn't destroy the prospect development.

I don't think you have.

That is exactly my approach

The old vets would supply the complimentary support

 

[TS Quint]

Not thinking of anyone in particular, just what I'd want if we traded the pick but I hope we keep it.

Our 1C is filled, Cozens looks to be a good bet to fill our 2C, solid top-6 wingers in Olofsson/Reinhart/Skinner at decent ages.

That's your top 2 centers and 3/4 wingers I'm confident in, I care less about the bottom-6 and those players are easier to find (still have some players in the pipeline that could fill there anyway)

I guess I'd rather have the shot to add a high end player for a long time to our already young/skilled core. Eichel isn't 24 yet and Dahlin doesn't even turn 20 for like 2 more weeks, I'm in absolutely no rush. Give me the (possible) highly skilled player.

Mittlestadt, Nylander, Reinhardt, Gigorenko, Armia.... these are the types of picks the Sabres make. I wouldn’t hold your breath for that high end you’re looking for.

 

[GOilers88]

That is exactly my approach

The old vets would supply the complimentary support

I guess I understand the theory that you're running with, but we've seen Edmonton and Buffalo do this for years. It's not a good model for success.

 

[Neutrinos]

I guess I understand the theory that you're running with, but we've seen Edmonton and Buffalo do this for years. It's not a good model for success.

Edmonton traded Hall, signed Lucic, Russell, Sekera etc.

Buffalo signed Okposo, traded O'Reilly for futures, then traded futures for Skinner

Neither team used my approach to rebuilding

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

'so I'm one up on you there'

There being the key word that illustrates to the reader I'm referring only to our knowledge on the difference between "your" and "you're"

So congrats! If they give out an award for trying too hard to be clever, I'm sure you just earned yourself a nomination

And if they give out an award for not trying at all to be clever, you'd have a dynastic hold on it based on your past week of posts alone.

Also, for someone who is pedantic about grammar/word choice when people rightfully criticize their half-baked ideas:

Buffalo has quite a few holes down there lineup though, so I'm not sure one piece is enough to help right the ship

This is not a particularly good look.

 

[GOilers88]

Edmonton traded Hall, signed Lucic, Russell, Sekera etc.

Buffalo signed Okposo, traded O'Reilly for futures, then traded futures for Skinner

Neither team used my approach to rebuilding

Edmonton has been trading players for picks for years while signing shitty vets to make up for it. Not so much in the last year and a half but for a long time prior to that.

I'm inclined to think there's a reason you don't see teams constantly trading away young cost controlled talent for more picks that you hope turn into at least that same cost controlled talent you just traded.

Ottawa doesn't need to trade away all those guys to free up cap space for Mittelstadt and another pick when they already have a shitton of picks. What they do need is good, cost controlled young complimentary talent to play with all the young kids they have and will have coming.

You absolutely have to try your best to stay competitive when icing a team full of young kids otherwise they wind up like Edmonton, Arizona and Buffalo.

And Melnyk handing out some decent contracts to guys like that would really go a long way to showing players in and around the organization that they are valued.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Mittlestadt, Nylander, Reinhardt, Gigorenko, Armia.... these are the types of picks the Sabres make. I wouldn’t hold your breath for that high end you’re looking for.

Even if those picks were relevant (hint: they're not) I'd still take the pick.

Gimme that high end player.