Restructuring of youth leagues

Maverick41

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Nov 9, 2005
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There will be some big and some small changes in the structure of the youth leagues in Germany.

  • 2 teams will be added to the DNL, so there will be 12 teams in that league.
  • The DNL will be split in 2 groups (North and South) with 6 teams each.
  • The first 4 teams of each group advance to another group stage where all 8 teams play each other twice. The top 4 teams of this group will qualify for the playoff semi final.
  • The last 2 teams of each group will be joined by the best teams of the new DNL 2 to play a similar group stage to determine promotion and relegation.
  • The new DNL 2 will also be played in two groups (North and South).

The new system has already drawn some criticism from DNL powerhouse Jungadler Mannheim.
They think the groups are too unbalanced, as they will join Berlin, Köln, Düsseldorf, Krefeld und newly promoted Hamburger SV in a very strong northern group. The southern group will consist of Bad Tölz, Landshut, Regensburg, Kaufbeuren, Rosenheim and Augsburg (the second new team).
Furthermore Jungadler coach Frank Fischöder pointed out, that even now with 10 teams the clubs have to fight to get enough decent players together. With two additional teams, this will become even worse.

On the other side the DEB-Technical Director Michael Pfuhl says that two more teams means more young players getting exposure on this level and it will result in more games for these players, which he also points out as a positive of the new format.

What do you guys think? Is the DEB going in the right direction or are the negatives outweighing the positives?

Sources (in German):
http://www.eishockeynews.de/aktuell...-saison-um-zwei-mannschaften-aufgestockt.html

http://www.morgenweb.de/mannheim/lokalsport/ligareform-gefallt-jungadlern-nicht-1.1428900
 
Last edited:

kaz

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Mar 27, 2014
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There is some logic to this process. Mannheim has a problem with it becuase they will not be the number one address anymore. The DNL, like the NHL, when it expanded, will have problems with weak players but in time that will change for the better. What may be a concern is, what age are the DNL players last year in that league?
 

Maverick41

Cold-blooded Jelly Doughnut
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Nov 9, 2005
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Germany
There is some logic to this process. Mannheim has a problem with it becuase they will not be the number one address anymore. The DNL, like the NHL, when it expanded, will have problems with weak players but in time that will change for the better. What may be a concern is, what age are the DNL players last year in that league?

Well this year players born in 95, 96 and 97 were the regular players in the DNL and 94s could play as overagers (don't know what the limit for those are) and a few 98s were also playing in this league. So it is mostly an U20 league.
 

KEC

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Feb 8, 2014
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Something Had to be done

Yeah, i mean those changes may have a Few Downsides but i Share the Point here that more Young Players should get used to tougher competition.
I am really Looking forward to See the Outcome - may be One of the best steps in the Last years, Maybe it has not a measurable Impact on German Hockey.
 

kaz

Registered User
Mar 27, 2014
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@ Kec. It will have an impact but your biggest hurdle is young players want to leave the German system and come to North America. This is an international problem which has been discussed at the highest level. The question is, how do German teams keep the young players in Germany? Playing time and money, is the answer. The kids over here are getting contracts, better then DEL teams are offering and are getting quality ice time. Start at the top, meaning DEL. The NHL has made mistakes in the past, so look at what they have done wrong and correct your direction.
 

Sabreagle

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Apr 1, 2014
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Apart from the stronger North than South and the possible (short term) lack of good players, two further problems come to mind:

- regular games (for the 8 highest teams) go from 36 to 20+28 = 48 games. That’s nice but it means 6 more playing weekends in already a tight schedule.

- this is compensated for 2 weekends by cutting the best-of-5 quarter finals. The suggested 2 game (plus overtime in case of 1-1) semi-finale and finale seem to me the biggest drawbacks. The current play-offs are the best period of the year! At least the best-of-3 semi-final and final should stay.
 

GermanNuck

Registered User
Jun 15, 2011
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Germany
DEL, DEL2 and the DEB (German Hockey Federation) finally came to an agreement, which means that hockey in Germany will have a structure from the DEL right down to the amateur-leagues..

They also implemented a new program, called "POWERPLAY26", a youth-program, backed by the financial resources of the DEL&DEL2 clubs.. The target is to be able compete for medals from 2026 on..

Not too sure about this but it's a step in the right direction

Source (german): http://www.del.org/de/news/2015/04/del-del2-deb/page/3753--30-3679-.html
 

kulenova seka

Guest
DEL, DEL2 and the DEB (German Hockey Federation) finally came to an agreement, which means that hockey in Germany will have a structure from the DEL right down to the amateur-leagues..

That means DEL clubs can get relegated to DEL 2 and DEL 2 can be promoted to DEL ?
 

Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,676
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Hamburg, Germany
That means DEL clubs can get relegated to DEL 2 and DEL 2 can be promoted to DEL ?

No, it means that one organisation is responsible for the entire setup. As of right now, you had the DEL and DEL2 that worked on their own, followed by leagues done by the DEB, followed by leagues under control of the regional federations. It was a pretty big mess with constant arguing about who was in charge over which matter.

Relegation-issues are dealt with under their own agreement.
 

GermanNuck

Registered User
Jun 15, 2011
824
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Germany
Althought they wanted to enable relegation within the next few years.. So we'll have to wait and see if the DEL keeps it's promise. Now with the unified structure I have high hopes.

Then again, most DEL2 clubs are not even close to the DEL clubs, both, in competitive and financial aspects, so there might be "elevator clubs"
 

Purple hippo

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Jan 3, 2010
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Louvain-la-Neuve
Now with the unified structure I have high hopes.
Then again, most DEL2 clubs are not even close to the DEL clubs, both, in competitive and financial aspects, so there might be "elevator clubs"

You dont need to have "elevator clubs" if you believe the gap between the two leagues is a little large or might damage clubs. You dont need automatic promotion/relegation, you could do something like the Swiss and have the loser of relegation series play the DEL2 Champion in a Best of 7 series. If you dont want added matches, the Slovaks use a last place in Extraliga faces Champion from 1.Liga.

If you want to make 100% sure and really test the club(s) coming up, you could do what the Czechs do in using the two worst clubs from "relegation Group" against the Finalists from the 1.Liga. These clubs come together to play a round robin for a total of 12 matches where the top two clubs play in Extraliga.

Just some other options to fight against having a club go down only to destroy the league and return a year later. But I do agree with you, I have high hopes to see some form of open league return.
 

S E P H

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Mar 5, 2010
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I don't know why it is so hard to create a National Development Program like USA, Slovakia, and perhaps Russia have for other countries.

Powerplay26 seems like a great start, but what are the main aspects of it? I only know basic German so I cannot understand 95% of that video. Is it going to be like the USNTDP and the Team Orange? Where the top junior players in Germany will develop their skills on/off the ice and play against tougher competitions like teams in DEL 1 and 2?

I REALLY want Germany to be the next Switzerland and I think they have a ton of potential, but getting relegated in both WJC U20 and WJC U18 is showing the effects of the lack of development between the Ehrhoff generation and now. All I hope is this Powerplay26 really improves German youth skating, that has been one of the worst weaknesses for German players.
 

Sanderson

Registered User
Sep 10, 2002
5,676
240
Hamburg, Germany
I REALLY want Germany to be the next Switzerland and I think they have a ton of potential, but getting relegated in both WJC U20 and WJC U18 is showing the effects of the lack of development between the Ehrhoff generation and now. All I hope is this Powerplay26 really improves German youth skating, that has been one of the worst weaknesses for German players.

I don't think that getting relegated is all that surprising, nor does it say much about the quality compared to the past. The German U20 spend four years at second tier level at the time of Ehrhoff, Seidenberg, Goc being around, with the team constantly going up and down afterwards, until the rules where changed and only one team went down. The U18 usually fares a bit better, but has been down as well, with a few solid performances sprinkled in between.

Generally, I'd say the level of play - and the level of skating - is much better than it was 10-20 years ago. The top-end may not always be there, but there are far more players who succeed in the DEL, and far more options for the national team as well.

The really big focus needs to be on skill, skill and nothing but skill. Way too much time gets spend on making sure the players don't screw up their assignments, keeping everything nice and steady, taking hardly any risks. These kids need to play, have fun, try things that may not work, in short: develop individual skill.
 

slovakiasnextone

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Jul 7, 2008
5,741
254
Slovakia
I don't know why it is so hard to create a National Development Program like USA, Slovakia, and perhaps Russia have for other countries.

Powerplay26 seems like a great start, but what are the main aspects of it? I only know basic German so I cannot understand 95% of that video. Is it going to be like the USNTDP and the Team Orange? Where the top junior players in Germany will develop their skills on/off the ice and play against tougher competitions like teams in DEL 1 and 2?

I REALLY want Germany to be the next Switzerland and I think they have a ton of potential, but getting relegated in both WJC U20 and WJC U18 is showing the effects of the lack of development between the Ehrhoff generation and now. All I hope is this Powerplay26 really improves German youth skating, that has been one of the worst weaknesses for German players.

I don't see how having something like the Slovak Orange team would benefit German hockey. It might slightly improve their chances of not getting relegated from elite, but it does little to nothing for the individual development of players. Even the success of American junior hockey isn't just a result of the USNTDP, the players who play there are already as good as the young players from the other elite countries as a result of how good the US programme is on other, younger levels.

Neither in the video nor in the articles I could find on the project does it say what the actual steps of Powerplay 26 are, but one would hope that it is some kind of strategy that will be applied on age levels. And not like the u18/u20 Slovaka teams, where a lot of money is poured into two age groups, where it is already too late and the best you can hope for are cosmetic improvements.
 

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,725
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Toruń, PL
I don't see how having something like the Slovak Orange team would benefit German hockey. It might slightly improve their chances of not getting relegated from elite, but it does little to nothing for the individual development of players. Even the success of American junior hockey isn't just a result of the USNTDP, the players who play there are already as good as the young players from the other elite countries as a result of how good the US programme is on other, younger levels.

Neither in the video nor in the articles I could find on the project does it say what the actual steps of Powerplay 26 are, but one would hope that it is some kind of strategy that will be applied on age levels. And not like the u18/u20 Slovaka teams, where a lot of money is poured into two age groups, where it is already too late and the best you can hope for are cosmetic improvements.

I am not too knowledgeable concerning Slovak Orange Team, but USNTDP has outstanding features for individual players. It....

- Teaches the IQ side of the game with classes concerning hockey, teaching players where to be here at a specific time in a specific location.

- Brings team bonding applications building up team work with one another, but more importantly, developing that team aspect in your brain.

- Brings in sports or mental psychologists to discuss any problems, but to build the mental side of the game into a brickwall.

- Has a superb training facility, which players can use to improve overall body mass, or to improve weak muscles concerning areas of game.

- And most important....the knowledge of world class hockey coaches ranging from Assistant coaches to nutrition coaches to strength and conditioning coaches. Having a team of 24 of perhaps the best age group Americans results in MORE one on one time with individual players which help to fix weaknesses and to promote strengths. Majority of kids in minor hockey have below average defensive games, but a good amount of kids coming out of the USTNDP, all have strong two-way games compared to the likes of certain European and Canadian leagues. This isn't coincidence. And this isn't a result of players the USNTDP "choose", but more of the production of what the USNTDP make.
 

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