Restart the Rebuild

[Grimes]

What about Stepan for Coyle. Minnesota is looking to add a center with Kiovu's recent injury.

 

[YotesFan47]

This is a bit of an over reaction. We don't need a rebuild. A few moves to get the right mix and some draft picks panning out in our favor would be best, restarting the rebuild will do nothing for us. We just moved our 2013, 2014 and 2015 1st rounders, we seem to draft better in that 5-10 slot than we do outside of that. Sit in mediocrity for another season or 2, continue to develop our picks, and in 2-3 years we can be competing.

Outside of moving Stepan, Goligoski and Demers, we don't need to flip a bunch of guys. Get what we can for those 3 and stay the course. Sign a few guys in the off season that complement our current talent. Make trades that bring in established youth with upside. That's our path.

 

[CNYCrunchfan1]

I think we have to stay the course, but there will be three to five changes next year. We can't stay status quo yet as we are not good enough, but talking about a rebuild is ridiculous.

Thats kind of a double sided comment...five changes would practically be a rebuild.

 

[Grimes]

It's not so much restarting a rebuild but rather gathering assets from the players who wont be here when the team becomes competitive. We used a top 10 pick for Stepan. Now on his second year on the team we were pushing to be a .500 team and maybe a playoff hopeful in a bad division. Without a goalie we are probably a lotto team. I have issues not getting back assets for him that help us when the inevitable top pick we draft this year needs a supporting cast. Thpse pieces could be late 1sts and 2nds that help us upgrade elsewhere or players that are younger than him that fit on our roster but could also be traded when the time is right. Trade Stepan for one of Buffalos 1st or Coyle. Trade Goligoski for Brassard and some picks. It's more of a retool than anything.

If the price is right for OEL you have to consider it though.

 

[_Del_]

The problem with Stepan is he should be anchoring a third line for us. He's a mediocre second line C. Would rather have spent the money elsewhere and taken Vilardi.
Now that it's a sunk cost, I'd rather keep him. This roster should represent a minimum of competence moving forward. We need to add talent and push guys down the lineup AND we need more young/cheap assets. If we can't afford to do that, then we're #ed no matter what we do.

 

[Heldig]

While I did not like the aquisition price I do like Stepan's game and think the team really needed his savvy vet leadership and consistent game. I presume the plan all along was to slowly move him down the lineup as the young C's earned top line minutes. Too bad Dvorak is injured and Strome is gone and Galchenyuk is not really a top 2 line C.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

I feel like we’re in constant rebuild mode. Or maybe constant panick mode.

Domi and Duclair are supposed to be the centerpieces of our rebuild.... but they have one sub-par season each and they’re shipped off for older players. Domi is scoring at a PPG pace, and Duke would be tied for the team lead in goals. But instead, they’re traded away because our GM got scared. Thanks for Dick Panik, I guess?

Then Keller/Strome/Perlini are the next group to lead the rebuild. And we saw how that went. Keller is still an alright player, but by no means is he a “star” and would be a second liner on a good amount of teams.

If you look at every successful team, a large percentage of their players are home grown. We currently have 4 players on our roster that were drafted by us (5 if Garland counts). It’s just not good enough.

In conclusion: every player we trade away becomes better, and every player that gets traded/signs here becomes worse.

 

[PerpetualTankYear]

Delete

 

[Sinurgy]

They couldn't stomach the first rebuild and IMO jumped ship right in the middle of it which is why they're now this weird sticky glued together conglomeration of random parts that seems to be going in no particular direction. No point trying another rebuild as they clearly don't have the fortitude.

 

[Name Nameless]

Yeah, if another rebuild forces the owner to sell it to Houston, they will thank you... or not.

But if the owner needs a play-off to afford keeping the team, this question shouldn't be so hard for you locals.

I figure your answer should be: "All In."

Ok, except future first-rounders. If you fail to make it you will at some point win a draft - lottery. After all.

 

[Jakey53]

There are changes every year. We just signed OEL to a long term deal, we aren't trading him 30 games later. We are still in the hunt for a playoff spot and its still early in the season. Tanking and getting rid of our best players is not the answer. If you think about it, the Yandle trade sunk us for years in a lot of ways, we should have kept him, same with OEL.

I didn't say trade OEL. I said there will be three to five changes before next season starts. OEL is the least of our problems.

 

[Jakey53]

What about Stepan for Coyle. Minnesota is looking to add a center with Kiovu's recent injury.

I think we should be looking to add a C. All ours suck at playing C.

 

[rt]

To make matters worse, our terrible hockey team has likely tanked Stepan's value. We traded a top 10 draft pick for him two years ago. Think Buffalo would consider moving Mittelstadt for him now? They'd laugh at us.

At this point, if Adin Hill isn't THE story of the season, we're just doomed.

 

[SniperHF]

I'm not much a believer in the semantics of this rebuild or that rebuild. IMO you're rebuilding until you don't suck. We still suck ergo the rebuild hasn't stopped.

At this point, if Adin Hill isn't THE story of the season, we're just doomed.

Probably. Kuemper might come back I suppose. He was playing reasonably well, I don't think we need .920 + sv% to be competitive nightly but we'll certainly get more wins that way.

To make matters worse, our terrible hockey team has likely tanked Stepan's value. We traded a top 10 draft pick for him two years ago. Think Buffalo would consider moving Mittelstadt for him now? They'd laugh at us.

I don't think we tanked Stepan's value. I think Stepan was already declining when we traded for him. His scoring has been consistent, but league scoring is going up. So he's declining production wise without it being obvious at a glance.

 

[rt]

What to do with OEL, Hjalmarsson, Goligoski, and Stepan? To a lesser extent, Grabner, Demers and Richardson.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

It would be a different story if Dvorak wasn't hurt, if he elevated his game this year, then you could absolutely get rid of Stepan, but with the uncertainty to the C enter ice position, you can't give up Stepan unfortunately.

Goligoski on the other hand should definitely be traded, along w/Demers in the off-season. We need to find a RHD replacement for Demers, so we can have at least 1 RHD on the team who can play in the top 4. Grabner is a keeper with this PK ability and no one will want Richardson.

Hammer just signed a contract extension with the Coyotes so you don't want to trade him as we want to keep the players that want to play here that play hard and are positive value like Hjalmarsson.

 

[rt]

It would be a different story if Dvorak wasn't hurt, if he elevated his game this year, then you could absolutely get rid of Stepan, but with the uncertainty to the C enter ice position, you can't give up Stepan unfortunately.

Goligoski on the other hand should definitely be traded, along w/Demers in the off-season. We need to find a RHD replacement for Demers, so we can have at least 1 RHD on the team who can play in the top 4. Grabner is a keeper with this PK ability and no one will want Richardson.

Hammer just signed a contract extension with the Coyotes so you don't want to trade him as we want to keep the players that want to play here that play hard and are positive value like Hjalmarsson.

So just let an 82 point team get a year older and hope they get 20% better?

 

[SniperHF]

What to do with OEL, Hjalmarsson, Goligoski, and Stepan? To a lesser extent, Grabner, Demers and Richardson.

Unless someone blows me away with an offer I'm not doing anything with big pieces till the offseason. Lot of season left to go. Coyotes have improved substantially from last season despite still being annoyingly inconsistent about it.

We're just not bottom 3 bad and the odds aren't that great lottery wise anyway, plus we don't win those. Trading them off to be worse doesn't make sense. The difference between 8th worst and 4th worst is about 3% in the odds. And like you said I don't see anyone running to the phone to give Chayka some great young talent for those guys.

At this time last season the coyotes had a .28% points percentage.
We're .500% right now.

Let some stuff play out. We need to see what Fischer and Chychrun do in the second half. Keller and Schmaltz flash in the pan or real chemistry? What's up with Galchenyuk? Hill taking someone's job?
Too many questions for me to want to just go around trading stuff mid season.

 

[rt]

Unless someone blows me away with an offer I'm not doing anything with big pieces till the offseason. Lot of season left to go. Coyotes have improved substantially from last season despite still being annoyingly inconsistent about it.

We're just not bottom 3 bad and the odds aren't that great lottery wise anyway, plus we don't win those. Trading them off to be worse doesn't make sense. The difference between 8th worst and 4th worst is about 3% in the odds. And like you said I don't see anyone running to the phone to give Chayka some great young talent for those guys.

At this time last season the coyotes had a .28% points percentage.
We're .500% right now.

Let some stuff play out. We need to see what Fischer and Chychrun do in the second half. Keller and Schmaltz flash in the pan or real chemistry? What's up with Galchenyuk? Hill taking someone's job?
Too many questions for me to want to just go around trading stuff mid season.

It's just depressing. Here we are again in December and are talking about the rest of the season like an extended training camp again. Every damn year is the same.

 

[Grimes]

Goligoski needs to go.
Stepan is tough because how potentially thin we could be at C. However with Dvo coming back and potentially Schmatlz working out and Gally being able to switch to C if needed we are potentially in the same spot next year as we are this season of we move Stepan.
Demers can be moved if we can attract a UFA
OEL only if the prices is right, aka a slight overpayment which is difficult considering he hasny had a great season.
Hammer has to be an overpayment as well but is the lowest on my desire to move list.
Grabner and Richie should be kept as their value on the market isnt greater than what they bring.

 

[rt]

I think the time to move Demers is now. To a team with an underperforming pending UFA they want to get rid of. They get to LTIR Demers and save the caphit this season.

 

[SniperHF]

You should have been prepared for this

36-35-11 = 83pts and walk into lottery with 12th best odds. Take advantage of roughly 2.5% odds and move up to 2nd pick. Spend entire offseason reminding everyone on HF outside of Forum 40 that we were actually not the 2nd worst team. Zero non-Coyotes fans remember this. We are glad to have Kakko (who with Keller, becomes one of the four or five best players in Arizona franchise history) but are mildly irritated that even the professional guys like McKenzie and Button, etc keep saying we had the 2nd worst record and can’t remembwr that we actually moved way up.

Except for the fact that we're not getting Kakko anyway.


Also from that thread:

Crowd-source point prediction, average of everyone who posted a point total in this thread (anyone who said just barely miss I called 92 points)

84.6 points

We were destined to be mediocre. We are who we thought we were.


The big concern is more that we aren't seeing progression basically anywhere. Most of the improvement has been stuff like the PK and defense finally understanding how to handle this system.

Clayton Keller *SHOULD* get better. If he doesn't you start firing people. Fischer, Chychrun, Crouse, Schmaltz. Galchenyuk slightly older but we'll include him. Outside of Chychrun who is a D, the rest of the guys should take big steps forward in the next 6-18 months.

If they don't we'll have proven out that we just simply cannot develop anyone.

 

[Heldig]

I want to add Mark Stone and Anders Lee in the summer.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

So just let an 82 point team get a year older and hope they get 20% better?

We are extremely thin up the middle. Goligoski should be trade bait, Demers should be trade bait, but we only have Schmaltz, Stepan, Dvorak, Richardson at the Center position, so you can't move him.

We've got to hope that one of the wingers steps up and begins to play like a legitimate top 6 winger. I would hope it would be Fischer, but who knows at this point. We've got the D covered with Capobianco, and I think that POJ might be able to make the jump next season if he had to.

What we need to more offensive talent up front...and unless Stepan could be traded for a top 10 pick this year, we can't trade him.

 

[_Del_]

What to do with OEL, Hjalmarsson, Goligoski, and Stepan? To a lesser extent, Grabner, Demers and Richardson.

I'd listen on anyone. Noone looks irreplaceable.

But the only guy I'd be actively trying to move is Demers. I wanted him moved this off-season. The IR situation for cap relief makes some sense. The other guys might get varying levels of interest at the deadline.

No point moving OEL, Goligoski, or Stepan if you don't have a NHL-level replacements in the deal. We need more talent, not less. Especially if we're not going to develop any young guys. Why trade away talent for more on the off chance Tocchet finds one or two sticky enough some day?