Player Discussion Replacing Jacob Markstrom

[innitfam]

It's fairly clear, IMO at least, that Markstrom will not be returning to Vancouver after this season.

Demko, the heir apparent, is playing often and playing well. Markstrom is 30 years old. He's not signing a short term deal to buddy up with Demko only to be shown the door 1-2 years later. This is Markstrom's chance to sign his largest contract. He has played well these past few seasons, despite having a largely terrible team in front of him. His monetary value is likely the highest it will ever be.

Who do we replace him with when he leaves? I don't think DiPietro is ready.

Khudobin could be an interesting choice. Proven vet to platoon with Demko - can leave him exposed for Seattle in 2021.

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[John Johnson]

We should honestly trade him while his value is high.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Im not sure that is fairly clear at all

 

[bandwagonesque]

If we see enough of Demko to be reasonably confident he's ready to start, let Markstrom go. If Demko takes the reins and dominates in a 1B role or takes the starter's job, trade Markstrom -- this isn't happening, and historically has not happened, under any other circumstances. If Demko isn't ready, resign Markstrom or sign a decent veteran replacement. One way or another, I don't expect Markstrom to be back with the team next season.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Im not sure that is fairly clear at all

Cant afford him. We will be cap strapped.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Trading Markstrom for the highest return possible is common sense, especially with Demko looking good in his starts. Only problem is common sense isn’t a strength for this team.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

Trading Markstrom for the highest return possible is common sense, especially with Demko looking good in his starts. Only problem is common sense isn’t a strength for this team.

Either this happens or he goes to Seattle. He won’t make it past them if we expose him.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

Trading Markstrom for the highest return possible is common sense, especially with Demko looking good in his starts. Only problem is common sense isn’t a strength for this team.

Jim's job depends on making the playoffs.

I guess you could say, for him it is common sense to look short term this season. Awful situation for the team.

 

[DonnyNucker]

It's fairly clear, IMO at least, that Markstrom will not be returning to Vancouver after this season.

Demko, the heir apparent, is playing often and playing well. Markstrom is 30 years old. He's not signing a short term deal to buddy up with Demko only to be shown the door 1-2 years later. This is Markstrom's chance to sign his largest contract. He has played well these past few seasons, despite having a largely terrible team in front of him. His monetary value is likely the highest it will ever be.

Who do we replace him with when he leaves? I don't think DiPietro is ready.

Khudobin could be an interesting choice. Proven vet to platoon with Demko - can leave him exposed for Seattle in 2021.

If Markstrom would sign for 3-4 years at a reasonable cap I’d do it and trade Demko. I still have reservations about demko and he is a decent trade chip.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Trading Markstrom for the highest return possible is common sense, especially with Demko looking good in his starts. Only problem is common sense isn’t a strength for this team.

No team in a position to make the playoffs has ever traded a star incumbent starter without a highly drafted future star 1B already outperforming them and taking their starts. If Demko does that, then it would make sense. Otherwise there's no precedent for this happening, which would seem to undermine your description of it as common sense.

 

[y2kcanucks]

No team in a position to make the playoffs has ever traded a star incumbent starter without a highly drafted future star 1B already outperforming them and taking their starts. If Demko does that, then to would make sense. Otherwise there's no precedent for this happening, which would seem to undermine your description of it as common sense.

Realistically the Canucks aren’t a playoff team. They have to cap themselves out and mortgage the future just to try to make themselves a bubble team. But hey, bad decisions breed more bad decisions, and there are always people around who will support that.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Realistically the Canucks aren’t a playoff team. They have to cap themselves out and mortgage the future just to try to make themselves a bubble team. But hey, bad decisions breed more bad decisions, and there are always people around who will support that.

Just so we can put this to rest, are you going to dispute anything I actually said about the likelihood of, or precedent for, trading Markstrom?

 

[bandwagonesque]

Jim's job depends on making the playoffs.

I guess you could say, for him it is common sense to look short term this season. Awful situation for the team.

Again -- no team in the history of the NHL has made the decision you're implying the Canucks should make. No team has ever traded a clear no. 1 goaltender when in range of a playoff spot without a young star goaltender taking about half the starts and outperforming them. You're construing this to be evidence of incompetence while disregarding the objective reality that every other GM who has ever been in the same position has made an identical decision, regardless of how they came to be in a position to have to make it. Criticizing Benning for mortgaging the future is defensible. Criticizing him for not trading Markstrom now, regardless of whether or not his career hangs in the balance, isn't. Unless Demko dominates and takes the bulk of the starts, no GM in this position would trade Markstrom regardless of any other circumstances. Therefore it makes no sense to say that Benning's position is the cause of his not trading Markstrom. This isn't a defence of Benning, it's frustration with people criticizing him in ways they know are disingenuous.

 

[dombrova22]

If Markstrom would sign for 3-4 years at a reasonable cap I’d do it and trade Demko. I still have reservations about demko and he is a decent trade chip.

Wtf

 

[Canucker]

I'd bet they deal Demko before they move Markstom...he's a leader on the team and I'm sure it would be an unpopular move in the room. It's going to be difficult to find money for him with how Benning has overspent on his duds, but he's going to need to find space for him and be sure to leave space for EP and Hughes in the next few years. They need to dump Eriksson, Sutter and Baertschi ASAP which will be a tall task for someone as inept as JB.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Wtf

You confused? I think Markstrom is a better goalie

 

[VanJack]

The real sad thing (from Markstrom's standpoint) is that if Benning didn't have so much dead-weight contract space tied up in bottom-six players, they'd easily have enough cap space to re-sign Markstrom AND keep Demko moving forward.

But when you've got guys like Beagle, Eriksson and Sutter consuming almost $14m in cap space, it dramatically reduces your options. If they weren't so tight to the cap with useless contracts, they could sign a guy like Zane McIntrye to an extension and expose him in the expansion draft. And they could hope that Markstrom's new contract number might discourage Seattle from taking him.

 

[John Johnson]

You confused? I think Markstrom is a better goalie

Demko is better than Markstrom was at the same age by quite a bit.

 

[StreetHawk]

Cant afford him. We will be cap strapped.

Agreed.. It's going to be tight to keep him at the $5.75 to $6 mill range. Based on what Hughes and Petey have done so far through 24 games, they are both on pace to secure their ELC performance bonuses, which due to a complete lack of cap space, the Canucks have to push over to next season. So that will eat up any cap increase.

Meaning, any increase to Markstrom has to come from dropping players off the roster and replacing them with cheaper options. There's no bad contracts coming off the books, which you could replace the player with a $1 million cap hit player and be at the same level of performance.

Tanev - $4.45 mill, would need to get someone to be in the top 4. have to spend the cap space on a top 4 Dman.
Stecher - $2.3 mill, signs point to them moving off him, but at most you're saving $1.3 million on a replacement player
Leivo - $1.5 mill, saving maybe $300-$500K to replace him.
Virtanen - $1.25 mill, don't see Benning moving him just yet.
Fantenberg - already a replacement level guy

Savings need to come from guys with term left on their contracts. Any of Sven, Loui, Beagle, Sutter, etc. to save on cap space. But, Benning's trade history, the best he's done on cap savings was the MDZ deal where he saved like $500K. After that, it was Gudbranson/Pearson, saving $250K.

 

[DonnyNucker]

Demko is better than Markstrom was at the same age by quite a bit.

Well this is probably true, there are no guarantees demko will ever be as good as markstrom is now. I’m concerned about the next 5 years as that’s our window. It can come and go pretty quickly

 

[NoShowWilly]

we can't just keep buying guys out either. we need to eat some full caps next year. we can't afford to have more dead money then we've already got with Pettersson and Hughes coming up.

we also need to pay their bonuses this year and next.

going to need a saavy play or two as well as the cap going up.

 

[John Johnson]

Well this is probably true, there are no guarantees demko will ever be as good as markstrom is now. I’m concerned about the next 5 years as that’s our window. It can come and go pretty quickly

Yeah that is also very true, but trading away Demko could be very costly in the future as well.

 

[sting101]

With the emergence of DiPietro things get really interesting.

It is plausible that Demko is the best trading chip of the 3 just as Schneider was.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Demko has the potential to be Elite. He’s on the same level as Markstrom already.

Markstrom:
GP: 16 Wins: 7 SV% .913 GAA: 2.72
Demko:
GP: 8 Wins: 5 SV% .916 GAA: 2.50

 

[thekernel]

I figured Markstrom would price himself out of our comfort zone, especially if we want to hold onto Tanev. But Friedman said he expected extension negotiations to begin soon. Let the intrigue commence....

Personally, I'd hate to see him go, he's been through a lot of garbage here and it would be a shame if he couldn't be here for when it gets better. But there is a cruel reality to the business side. We have a long-term solution in place, and there needs to be as much room as possible for Q and Petey's new deals.

The only way I see it working is if:
1) We find trade partners for cap relief
2) He signs on a discount

The first seems unlikely, or at least, it won't happen without some terrible caveat like giving up good picks or prospects. The second option seems even less likely, as this is probably the biggest contract opportunity of his entire career, and it would be a horribly imprudent decision to take such a huge risk when he's had to fight so hard just to get it. Although it's probably the best outcome we could ask for. He would command much more on the open market (even though the UFA class for goalies is looking stacked)

The Seattle draft doesn't seem like a possibility to me. At 29 and heading to free agency, if he's shooting for a long term deal I'd imagine he's going to want draft protection at the very least.