Replacement Players = No Crosby

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by shakes, Nov 19, 2004.

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  1. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    It appears not everyone would like to be replacement players in the NHL should the league decide to use them.


    TSN

     
  2. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    What % of regulars needs to cross before he would decide to play?

    Sure looks like this quote leaves him with a good deal of latitude in making his decision.

    Interestingly enough, it also provides NHL teams with a perfect reason to NOT bid on his services should the courts declare him a free agent without worrying about collusion charges should they opt for replacement players.
     
  3. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    You really are a dreamer, aren't you? If there is a strike he's not going to cross a picket line. That is obvious. This story is about Sidney Crosby, free agent. What makes this a great story is that we beat the media on it on these boards. We were arguing about it before it hit the TV and the papers. I think that is really neat.

    I don't think there is an accident in this timing either. Both Brisson and Barry were very militant coming out of Goodenow's meeting. They are going to try to make their client a free agent if the season is cancelled. That is a message to the NHL. "Settle this thing and have a season, or..."

    "In hockey we're used to looking at free agents at 31, but if Sidney Crosby becomes an unrestricted free agent at age 18, it would definitely be the ultimate feeling," said Brisson bearing a wide grin.

    If the courts declare him a free agent, there had better be a frenzy over him or the NHL will get whacked with a collusion suit for sure. The courts are not going to make him a free agent and then say it is okay if nobody bids on him.

    That they think he might honour a picket line is not nearly good enough to avoid a collusion suit.

    Tom
     
  4. Steve L*

    Steve L* Registered User

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    Considering its rumoured 75% of players will go back to play next year, it would be a safe bet that Crosby would play too.
     
  5. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Which one of us is dreaming?

    The one who maintains that NO player will cross the line or the one who is looking at the practical implications when some do cross on Crosby's stance?

    What happens if 10-25% of the NHLPA members cross? 50%? More than 50%?

    Are you suggesting that Crosby will never cross the line if even ONE NHLPA member refuses to cross?

    IF the courts declare him a free agent (highly doubtful) then they are not going to force the teams to do anything more than express interest in Crosby. If he maintains his stance that he refuses to work under the working conditions they have established, they cannot be forced to give him a contract. If he changes his stance, I'm sure they would be more than willing to offer him a contract.
     
  6. kremlin

    kremlin Registered User

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    Who cares about Crosby & the silly NHL entry draft at this point. Much better things are at stake.
     
  7. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    No, I'm saying Crosby will be like the vast majority of players. If the NHLPA is on strike, he won't report.

    I'd bet the Leafs or Rangers sign him within 24 hours. Why wouldn't they?

    If nobody makes a bona fide offer, the NHL will be defending a collusion suit that they can't win.

    Tom
     
  8. littleHossa

    littleHossa Registered User

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    I don't know why Crosby got that idea, he only wishes to play if that enables him to measure himself against the best in the world, why not just be happy that he hit the "NHL" and just play for a Stanley Cup. His whole message when analysed a bit doesn't change anything either, if the NHL won't meet Crosby's requirements, what will he do, stay in the Q? Go play for a team somewhere in Europe? they wouldn't be close to NHL talent either.
     
  9. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    So at some point he'll have to decide what percentage changes his stance, if more players begin to cross.


    Gee, maybe because he's refusing to work under the conditions they set.

    The courts can't force them to give him a contract if he refuses to be an employee.
     
  10. YellHockey*

    YellHockey* Guest

    How can he refuse to work unless he's signed a contract to work?

    He's not refusing to be an employee. He's just refusing to cross a picket line.
     
  11. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    So the owners should shower him with signing bonus money in order for him to be happy walking the picket line?

    Give me a break. The courts would never find the clubs guilty of collusion if they simply offered him deals contingent upon his changing his stance and reporting for work with whatever players they have under contract.
     
  12. shakes

    shakes Pep City

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    I'm pretty sure that number may be a bit high and I'm pretty sure that with all the hype around him.. "Next One" etc.. when he says NHL regulars he doesn't mean Cory Hirsch or Mike Commodore and the like that would make up the majority of that 75% if indeed true. He wants to play against the best and if the best decide they would rather play at home or in foreign leagues, then that's where he will play. I seriously doubt he would play in a league full of replacements ECHL,AHL or any team stocked with 3rd and 4th liners.

    Of course he is going to give himself that latitude.. I bet he hopes the season is cancelled because that equals a much greater payday. To think that all these teams will lowball him is dilusional. If he is declared a free agent, you can almost make book that he will be a very very rich kid AND playing for a team that would be considered one of the "haves" (Toronto, Philly, St Louis, Dallas, Detroit etc).

    Actually, has anyone imagined the repercussions that this would have? Rich teams could load up on talent and stock their farm systems with the best of the 05 class.. Sign them to minor league contracts with big bonuses so as not to affect a salary cap in any great regard. This bodes well for Canadian teams, especially the rich ones and for signing homegrown talent.
     
  13. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    I think the Crosby people brought it up to push the NHL toward a settlement. If not, they sue.

    I think this is an excellent reason to make sure there is a second half of the season. I'm still optimistic about that. I don't think the owners are ready to cave completely, but I can think of several excellent reasons to play the second half of the season under the old deal:

    1) Sidney Crosby et al

    2) The second half of the season is the profitable half.

    3) It helps the non-traditional markets hold whatever fan base they have.

    4) They don't want to use replacements until next fall anyway.

    5) All the players in Europe get yanked back and the problems that creates for the European teams may make them hesitate next year when we go through this again.

    6) It is good PR and will play well as bargaining in good faith when the NLRB gets the case.

    Tom
     
  14. SENSible1*

    SENSible1* Guest

    Now who's dreaming.
     
  15. ctfan

    ctfan Registered User

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    If the NHL opens next season with replacement players there will be a new IMPOSED CBA in place. There will be rules in place for drafting and signing players. It won't be a free for all. Of course the players will strike against the new imposed CBA.

    It will be then be up to each player whether or not he breaks ranks with the union. I don't think Crosby is going to sit out forever just to spite the owners. If he sees the union cracking he'll sign with whomever drafts him. Otherwise he has every right to play in Europe or wherever.
     
  16. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    How would any Canadian team not named Toronto like this scenario? None of the other 5 teams could offer any real competition to the big US franchises if it came down to bidding for the top '05 talent.

    What would stop the Rag$ from opening up their bottomless wallet and outbidding every other team for the top 5 guys of the draft class?
     
  17. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    This is fine, but what happens between July 1st and the date the NLRB permits the new CBA (assuming they do)? Unless they impose a CBA before the end of June and have a draft, Sidney will try to become a free agent before impasse.

    At that point, the judge will be making the decision in the absence of a CBA.

    Tom
     
  18. I in the Eye

    I in the Eye Drop a ball it falls

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    Blasphemy!

    I'll get the witches costume... Someone else pick up the matches...
     
  19. Pepper

    Pepper Registered User

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    Crosby can play in outer mongolia for I care, if that 17-year old punk (or his management) thinks him holding out makes a difference to majority of hockey fans, he's dead wrong.
     
  20. ctfan

    ctfan Registered User

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    He can sue all he wants. At this point in time the NHL is not open for business.
     
  21. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    So what? If the judge makes him a free agent, NHL teams will still have to explain why they don't sign him. There is nothing stopping a team from doing it. Well, except collusion.

    And do you really think Toronto won't try? They'll sign him in a second.

    Tom
     
  22. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    He's already a free agent. He can play anywhere in the world. But if he wants to play in the NHL, he will have to wait until they have a new CBA...

    The draft is illegal without a valid CBA in place, so he can't be drafted. And while they are still negotiating a new CBA, there are no players being signed. I can't see any judge not laughing this out of court if he tries to sue... We have already seen that the NHL will not be considered to be violating anti-trust laws while negotiations are still on going. A nice fantasy though. It's keeping us entertained here!
     
  23. Digger12

    Digger12 Gold Fever

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    This feeling of deja vu is nearly palpable...

    Wasn't this topic beaten to death and back fairly recently?
     
  24. Tom_Benjamin

    Tom_Benjamin Registered User

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    Why? Explain this without using the collusion word.

    Are you a lawyer? Do you know something that Crosby's agents don't know?

    Tom
     
  25. djhn579

    djhn579 Registered User

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    No, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express...

    If you go back to the last big discussion we had on this, I posted a link to a legal site that had a nice article on case history and sports. One of the key points made was that by the nature of sports leagues, they are not considered to be violating anti-trust laws while they have a CBA in place or are in negotiations on a new CBA.

    Your sole argument is that NHL teams will be violating anti-trust laws if they don't attempt to sign him. Based on what I read, he does not have a case.

    Furthermore, and probably for the reason mentioned above, any CBA signed between the NHL and NHLPA will specify how players can enter the league. Any player signed now would have to meet those requirements, so any contract signed would probably be declared invalid and rejected by the league.

    Furthermore, any contract signed must be in accordance with the CBA and approved by the NHL. Until a new CBA is signed, no one knows what the contract will have to say or contain to be approved.

    I may not be a lawyer, but I do understand a little bit and do know how to read and draw conclusions from previous cases.

    Now, I do understand that you have at least some legal background. What I don't understand is how you can come to the conclusions you do when information like this is easily found on the 'net.
     
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