TorontoTrades
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2012
- 6,459
- 2,194
It's easy to pretend that toughness, grit, and intimidation doesn't exist in hockey...
Sitting behind your keyboard and all
You know, if you truly believe the Leafs aren’t going to be the type of team you like, change to cheering for a team of that type. That way you can enjoy hockey again and don't need to whine on the Internet. And if the Leafs become the type of team you like again, you can always switch back.
Of course, it’s possible that you’re not really unhappy with the Leafs, but just like whining on the Internet.
"If the Leafs aren't playing the way you like you need to stop following them, unless of course they do, and then you may resume following them"
Are you actually serious?
acquire reading comprehension. that's not what he said.
Colton Orr had absolutely nothing to do with how the special teams performed.
It appears you are the one who doesn't understand.
Out of curiosity, how did you feel about the Clarkson signing?
Leaf fans were never happy! This is fake news!
It's exactly what he said.
How is it any different?
May as well have said "If you don't like what your politicians are doing, you need to leave the country...unless they start doing what you like....then you can come back."
Are you going yourself into a circle on this as well?
I don't think it's the players idea...I think it's Babs idea. Walk away,don't get the instigator,or unnecessary 3rd man in penalty. They are relying on the Refs to call indiscretions ,but that hasn't worked so well since Babs has been there. So,after failing for 4 years,maybe try some other tactic...maybe?I can't even get in the head of hockey player who doesn't react to his teammate, let alone star teammate, getting manhandled. At the very least, I expect to see the team get more competitive, more intense, show more desire to win that particular game. That base reaction is what is missing above and beyond a lineup mostly bereft of grit and snarl. Mats Sundin is a perfect example of what I'm talking about: often a gentle giant but if you took a run at him or one of his teammates his intensity level and competitiveness went to 10. Hence most teams just left him alone.
I think the nearly extinct fighting specialists still get brought up because historically that's the type of addition a team this soft and unresponsive needed to at least survive on those certain nights.
This is a poetic waxing back to an era when a team was a team... all the way through the organization.
The late Pat Burns, one of my favourite coaches of all time, was eventually chased out of Leaf Nation... as things tend to go. But while he was here... the 92-93 and 93-94 Leafs were ... forgettaboutit.
Pat Burns was famously remembered for going after Barry Melrose between the benches in the 92-93 playoff series vs LA Kings.
But that mentality didn't just emerge in that incident. It was part of his entire tenure in Toronto, before and after.
Here's a great clip of what a team does when someone they care about was targeted. A hit on Gilmour. A response by the entire freakin' team.
And at the 1:13 mark of the video... watch Burns.
The current $oft $quad. The current, "I don't buy physicality GM." The current "all about me" Coach... friggin' learn from the past and conduct yourselves with the honour that is being a Leaf.
F' me. I need a beer.
You are making me sad Pookie.
It’s like how I love the original Star Wars trilogy but now Disney took over the product and those days are gone.
Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or loseHow is this a relevant take? What does that 'tough team' have to do with a 3rd period collapse in a game 7? I saw it...did you? They didn't lose in the final 10 minutes of a 7 game series because they were a tough team.
Would you say that St.Louis finessed their way to the Stanley Cup or how about Washington. a good balance of skilled players who can handle the rough patches and guys who know how to dish it out is usually a good team. The Leafs don't have that at the moment.
Confidence and give a crap. Things that can’t be measured with a ratio.
Totally understand why these concepts are elusive.
Yeah, I do remember the Burke era, wasn't too long ago. Not a fun time.
Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or lose
Brilliant point, but nonetheless we are in the Golden Age of Leafs management- I cannot recall management having a methodology- analytics - and a theory based on math applied to the team before. We have an analytics department. Just consider that- an actual stats division in management! Rejoice. It is unbelievable that people honestly have a problem with math based decision making. But they do. And they see penalty box sitting capacity as a postive. These people must have rejoiced when Marner was sent to the box in overtime so that some damn Euro on Washington could predicatably score against us.
Burky! Burky! Burky! Oh how fondly Moron Man remembers trading 2 consecutive first round picks! Always goes well. Good old school thinker.
I despised fans calling Mr. Burke - who commands, rightfully, considerable respect- Burky. It really, really grated me.Some people are invited to call me by my nickname, others by my first and some by my last. I am not him and it is not my battle, but jeez! Have some respect!
With my zero milliseconds of experience in hockey management, I pronounce as follows: the salary cap era mandates the use of analytics, and as a consequence, immeasurable information, (is it information if it cannot be measured?) is excluded from the decision making process, so giving a damn and confidence levels are reduced to gut feels, which means moving off of facts, which means you are being an idiot.
Moron Man knows that you wait for guys to win cups elsewhere and then you overpay them to come here with thier torn ACLs and reward them for cups won a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. Enlightened fans conversely know that you pay your players for what they will be and not for what they were. And for that you need some heavy duty math as you toss your dart tosses to get figures to fill in the blanks in the algorithm.
Moron Man wants to be rid of at least one perhaps 2 of Nylander (has to go! Damn European- take your skill some place else where they appreciate modern hockey! We dinosaurs don't need your stupid fancy skating and passing and commitment to fundamentals!) Marner and Matthews. Get some good grinders- guys who know how to get into that penalty box and just sit there while the other team enjoys the strategic advantage!
"MAn! Imagine if we traded some of this skill for a bunch of 4th line grinders that we could put on every line! And a really tough 3rd and 4th line! Why restrict 4th liners to the 4th line? Just imagine: The Box Brothers! Such a great tag line! Fans would love it! A bunch of players who can reliably take a penalty. Imagine what the other teams will think when they see our Box Brothers on the ice! Good Canadian kids who play the game in accordance with the Code of the Gladiators! The Box Brothers! Love it! Imagine in the playoffs, the Leafs are up by 3 goals heading into the third, and have things well in hand, playing an American based team, and then the Box Brothers take to the ice! Bam, just like that- we got the makings of an extincting finish! Ah! That's why I love the American Association of US Ice Hockey Teams! And the Leafs can rely on always getting the call that helps them lead in penalty minutes, so that the AAUSIHT can get its fat US TV deal," Moron Man enthusiastically proclaimed as he grabbed the brim of his ball-cap, smiled a self satisfied smile, garbed another suicide flavored chicken bone, had a sip of his domestic swill, wiped his hands in his track pants, looked down on his running shoes that have never seen the inside of a gym, and said, "Stupid Dubass would not agree with me! Stupid Dubass thinks the Box Brothers are a detriment!"
Once again, I was startled by my concordance with Moron Man on 2 points. Firstly, it is true, the Box Brothers would make a playoff game that was well on the way to victory and convert it into an exciting finish, and secondly, there is no way Dubass would see plus side of the Box Brothers and their plan to give the other team the advantage.
Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or lose
Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or lose
Certain styles don't really work anymore and people wanting the Leafs to be the big bad Leafs of old, need to get over it. The NHL has changed and is continually changing away from that style and you don't want to be someone like the Kings who are having trouble adapting. Say what you will about how "soft" the Leafs are, but this past May they were in much better shape and played better in that series in comparison to the previous 2, even if the outcome ended up being the same. My point is that in this NHL, if you're skilled enough, you can play around "toughness" and "grittiness" because if you move the puck fast enough, the opposing team isn't going to hem you in your zone. This romanticizing of the past, and how "tough" players and teams used to be is rather silly to me. Most teams don't play that heavy and slow anymore because of how fast the game has gotten, keep up or lose
Yeah, I do remember the Burke era, wasn't too long ago. Not a fun time.