Remembering When II - We Had a Players Coach & Team Toughness

[Primary Assist]

Make the Leafs Great Again!

 

[Mike1]

Pat Burns was the only coach in my lifetime to get the team to play defense. I wouldn't describe him as a players coach. There is a reason he only lasted 3-4 years wherever he went. He was a hard ass coach that DEMANDED his team's play defense.

Pat Quinn is who I would describe as a players coach. Quinn's teams struggled defensively but were aided by great goaltending.

Your overall point about resilience(or character which is the more used word) is valid. It makes the current team in a lot of cases very difficult to watch. They have skill but you know when it gets tough they are going to wilt. You also know you are going to watch players & question in the back of your mind whether they are giving 100%. It's crazy that we are at a stage with the team where people are talking about 'good efforts' when that should be what normally happens. It's not like you are paying these slackers millions of dollars or anything.

 

[Craig Button]

Not true. I just spent good coin on a road trip to Montreal to cheer on the team. I will ALWAYS love the Leafs.

Many of us feel as though this era of junk stats and lack of passion is a step back. I highlighted there would be more "Remember When" focus threads. This one is on the late Pat Burns.

I don't feel as though there is anything wrong with remembering a team that was led by a fantastic coach. Particularly in the Leafs forum.

For those not old enough to remember, it's a history lesson and maybe a chance to gauge what they are missing.

If it's not your cup of tea.. that's cool. Plenty of threads to choose from.

For me. I enjoyed watching. I enjoyed seeing the coach say "Good Job" up and down the bench when players actually battled for each other.

It's a mentality and a culture that I hope returns one day.

I’m old enough to remember Pat Burns calling out the leadership and getting fired shortly after that.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

once again. since you are awash with nostalgia.

the reasons (in order) of why we were eliminated in the 1st round all three years is as following.

1: The power play that was 2nd, 2nd, and 7th(i think) in the league was 16th, 16th, 16th. they barely capitalized on any chance they had. it was horrendously bad.

2: the penalty kill was historically bad. it got worst every year (Oh by the way. they were like dead last in the PK too. so for it to get worse you know that's utterly bad).

3: Freddy Andersen couldn't stop a beach ball in any of the 3 elimination games that he played when it ensured the leafs could move to the round.

4: the utter lack of discipline from the Leafs in critical moments (big spot light on Kadri, Nazem, who isn't here anymore, so this point is moot).

5: egregious defensive breakdowns from forwards and defense.

6: lack of adapting quicker from Babcock.

what is so freaking painfully frustrating here (more so than everyone who wants to beat the "advance stats tho" drum) is the "but we're so soft tho." drum) that. is. not. the problem. to be. focusing . on. like at all. (not to mention at all that even when the Boston was being their aggressive selves, the Leafs were at their best, skating hard, and ignoring all of that crap. Not to mention they threw hits etc).

so many people have decided to spin their narrative if they "were just tougher, and stir." everything will be fine. and it won't. not until they get to theplayoffs, and freaking address the several things that actually cost them the playoffs.

they were never eliminated because they couldn't take a hit or refused to hit. they were eliminated because Andersen was a Sieve. Because they couldn't capitalize on the powerplay. because they couldn't penalty kill if their lives required them to do so. Because Babcock decided to you know limit Matthews when he's having the game of his life in Game six, and then pull the goalie without the Leafs having possession. (or playing Zack Hyman on one leg). a "Players coach" and toughness isn't going to fix all of that.

not to mention. (and i am not on Team Dubas here) the fact that people are under this mindset that he doesn't even want toughness on the team (while he had a blend of grit and skill on his Soo teams) is just laughable.

like holy moses.

I agree mostly but why do you think Boston gooned it up in Game 2 after losing Game 1 and don't you think that turned out to be an effective strategy?

 

[deletethis]

Pat Burns was the only coach in my lifetime to get the team to play defense. I wouldn't describe him as a players coach. There is a reason he only lasted 3-4 years wherever he went. He was a hard ass coach that DEMANDED his team's play defense.

Pat Quinn is who I would describe as a players coach. Quinn's teams struggled defensively but were aided by great goaltending.

Your overall point about resilience(or character which is the more used word) is valid. It makes the current team in a lot of cases very difficult to watch. They have skill but you know when it gets tough they are going to wilt. You also know you are going to watch players & question in the back of your mind whether they are giving 100%. It's crazy that we are at a stage with the team where people are talking about 'good efforts' when that should be what normally happens. It's not like you are paying these slackers millions of dollars or anything.

Excellent summary. 100% correct about Burns and Quinn. Quinn's tenure here started with one of the softer teams in the league then the team responded by finding hardened vets to supplement the young softer talent. Like most players' coaches, not every player got on great with Quinn: not Jason Smith, not Steve Sullivan.

 

[deletethis]

I agree mostly but why do you think Boston gooned it up in Game 2 after losing Game 1 and don't you think that turned out to be an effective strategy?

They won the game. They once again got the Leafs' best 2 way center out of the series. It seemed to work out fairly well.

 

[Daisy Jane]

I agree mostly but why do you think Boston gooned it up in Game 2 after losing Game 1 and don't you think that turned out to be an effective strategy?

to try to get the Leafs off their game. which is what happened.
and then when the leafs ignored the Bruins gooning it up, and applied their strengths, the Bruins looked in trouble. I want to be clear, I'm not saying that I'm adverse more toughness on the team. I'm saying that people saying that the Leafs have none is completely erronous. I'm also saying people who think that "just mix toughness and stir." will fix all the problems is dead wrong.

quite frankly, if we had more toughness, all we would have is a few more hits that people can go "oh yay isn't that great?!" and we'd still be eliminated because, we can't score on the PP, we can't stop a puck on the PK, and Andy loses his mind in elimination games. address that. then worry about how tough the team can be.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Not true. I just spent good coin on a road trip to Montreal to cheer on the team. I will ALWAYS love the Leafs.

Many of us feel as though this era of junk stats and lack of passion is a step back. I highlighted there would be more "Remember When" focus threads. This one is on the late Pat Burns.

I really don't feel as though there is anything wrong with remembering a team that was led by a fantastic coach. Particularly in the Leafs forum.

For those not old enough to remember, it's a history lesson and maybe a chance to gauge what they are missing.

If it's not your cup of tea.. that's cool. Plenty of threads to choose from.

For me. I enjoyed watching. I enjoyed seeing the coach say "Good Job" up and down the bench when players actually battled for each other.

It's a mentality and a culture that I hope returns one day.

mimicking this team’s spirit made me an arsehole to play against growing up. I miss the energy of that team. I miss being young.

@Pookie what have you done, now I’m depressed

 

[Nineteen67]

Make the Leafs Great Again!

Would be nice..but...... when they do everything right and bring joy, satisfaction and prosperity to Leafs Nation, the opposition will be furious, have a (glorious) meltdown, and jealously use every illegal trick known to hockey to bring them down.

 

[Pookie]

Would be nice..but...... when they do everything right and bring joy, satisfaction and prosperity to Leafs Nation, the opposition will be furious, have a (glorious) meltdown, and jealously use every illegal trick known to hockey to bring them down.

Now now.

You know what would really happen?

The President of the team would take over Leafs TV.

After every actual loss, Leafs TV pundits and analysts would claim we actually won. And 35-40% of the fan base would lap it up without question.

The President would hold up a picture of the Standings... drawn with a Sharpie... to provide “evidence” that the team was doing well.

People would be saying there was a tremendous amount of winning, so much winning they have never seen that much winning before.

And think of all the issues that would immediately go away:

- Warm(ing) ice? Naw, just a hoax by the Chinese. Ice changes aren’t real.
- Animosity? Naw. The Bruins would be very fine people.... on both sides
- Referring bias? Damn right. We’ll invest in the KHL and get some Russian supplied KHL Refs to oversee our games #no colusion (spelled wrong of course)

 

[KuleminFan41]

I remember when the Leafs had a great tough team back in 2013 where they played heavy, hit a ton and had the most fights in the league. Then they played the Bruins in the playoffs and got out played virtually every game of the series and some how managed to not only take the series to game 7 but have a lead going into the final 12 minutes of the 3rd. I think we all know how that game turned out. Playing that "old school" style of hockey utterly failed them as the Leafs embarrassed themselves in game 7 in less than 20 minutes .

The past is the past, you can't keep looking at it and trying to apply everything that had a tiny bit of success , to today.

 

[kb]

There is no doubt that special teams between us and Boston was huge and that the jury is still out on Freddy, while some think he's top end, I think he's more league average, but there is little doubt that lack of heart was a cause as well. Nylander is a perfect example of this. His infamous moment in the offensive zone where he seems to be daydreaming while the puck is passed to him in the slot area (prime scoring position) or his laziness when he coughed up the puck right next to his own goal. Just some egregious examples of all too common lack of effort.

Watch Marner now

 

[Pocket Hercules]

I remember when the Leafs had a great tough team back in 2013 where they played heavy, hit a ton and had the most fights in the league. Then they played the Bruins in the playoffs and got out played virtually every game of the series and some how managed to not only take the series to game 7 but have a lead going into the final 12 minutes of the 3rd. I think we all know how that game turned out. Playing that "old school" style of hockey utterly failed them as the Leafs embarrassed themselves in game 7 in less than 20 minutes .

The past is the past, you can't keep looking at it and trying to apply everything that had a tiny bit of success , to today.

To be fair, if it weren't for Grabovski mocking the B's bench during the final 10 mins of the game (pointing at the score board) and Reimer playing with the same poise of a cat on skates, the Leafs would of won that series despite going in as massive underdogs. Who knows what would of happened after that.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I agree mostly but why do you think Boston gooned it up in Game 2 after losing Game 1 and don't you think that turned out to be an effective strategy?

Only because the refs didn't control the game. Had they, I would say no.

 

[Nineteen67]

Now now.

You know what would really happen?

The President of the team would take over Leafs TV.

After every actual loss, Leafs TV pundits and analysts would claim we actually won. And 35-40% of the fan base would lap it up without question.

The President would hold up a picture of the Standings... drawn with a Sharpie... to provide “evidence” that the team was doing well.

People would be saying there was a tremendous amount of winning, so much winning they have never seen that much winning before.

And think of all the issues that would immediately go away:

- Warm(ing) ice? Naw, just a hoax by the Chinese. Ice changes aren’t real.
- Animosity? Naw. The Bruins would be very fine people.... on both sides
- Referring bias? Damn right. We’ll invest in the KHL and get some Russian supplied KHL Refs to oversee our games #no colusion (spelled wrong of course)

Sounds like you watch too much That’s Hockey on TNN.....

 

[Matthews34]

did they win a cup?
no.
then we're not missing much.

At least we were entertained! There's reason a reason it's called Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment!! This team in it's current form won't win a cup but aren't nearly has entertaining. Clark and Gilmour were far more to watch than 3 o-zone plays a night Marner and Matthews neither of switch have out scored the best single seasons of Gilmour and Clark!

 

[Menzinger]

At least we were entertained! There's reason a reason it's called Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment!! This team in it's current form won't win a cup but aren't nearly has entertaining. Clark and Gilmour were far more to watch than 3 o-zone plays a night Marner and Matthews neither of switch have out scored the best single seasons of Gilmour and Clark!

I think this post does a great job of hitting the nail on the head.

This discussion really isnt about ehat makes the team better, its what part of this fanbase enjoys aeeing on the ice.

Personally "grit" doesnt add much extra entertainment value to my eyes but i can understand why others think differently (to each thei own ect)

 

[Nineteen67]

At least we were entertained! There's reason a reason it's called Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment!! This team in it's current form won't win a cup but aren't nearly has entertaining. Clark and Gilmour were far more to watch than 3 o-zone plays a night Marner and Matthews neither of switch have out scored the best single seasons of Gilmour and Clark!

They sure were entertaining. This team, not so much.
If we were watching Boston’s top players we would be entertained almost nightly with passing shooting and skating but this current group just doesn’t do much of that.

 

[kevsh]

First, you need a captain like Gilmour who teammates would run through a wall for.

This is no shot at Tavares, btw, you could easily replace "captain" with "star player", heck even just "player" and it still rings true.

And you don't need to change the roster, just one player steps up to get the ball rolling: For example, an opponent runs Marner and Matthews responds the way Pearson did in that video. After that, the rest of the team would look at Auston the way those Leafs back then look at Dougie ... Okay, bit of a stretch but you get the point.

Would any of the Leafs stars do that? I'd bet no, but if they did, I honestly believe it would instantly change the dynamic of this team, no Reaves required.

 

[namttebih]

did they win a cup?
no.
then we're not missing much.

What? They made it to the conference finals 4 times in 10 years. I shed tears of joy and balled my eyes out in sorrow with those teams.
This current team makes me feel nothing.

 

[Fatass]

First, you need a captain like Gilmour who teammates would run through a wall for.

This is no shot at Tavares, btw, you could easily replace "captain" with "star player", heck even just "player" and it still rings true.

And you don't need to change the roster, just one player steps up to get the ball rolling: For example, an opponent runs Marner and Matthews responds the way Pearson did in that video. After that, the rest of the team would look at Auston the way those Leafs back then look at Dougie ... Okay, bit of a stretch but you get the point.

Would any of the Leafs stars do that? I'd bet no, but if they did, I honestly believe it would instantly change the dynamic of this team, no Reaves required.

Seriously. How much toughness does any man have who thinks it’s funny to scare girls who are alone in their cars at 2 am? Then when confronted about his childish behaviour pulls his pants down and hides behind his parents. AM has great hockey talents, but is he a leader? Is he like Gilmore, and a guy who others respect?

 

[OVO16]

Miss those days

This team badly misses a Darcy tucker and/or Tie Domi type of player

 

[napoleon in rags]

 

[RoyalCitySlicker]

Miss those days

This team badly misses a Darcy tucker and/or Tie Domi type of player

Riiiiiight.



I did love Tucks, though.

 

[deletethis]

Seriously. How much toughness does any man have who thinks it’s funny to scare girls who are alone in their cars at 2 am? Then when confronted about his childish behaviour pulls his pants down and hides behind his parents. AM has great hockey talents, but is he a leader? Is he like Gilmore, and a guy who others respect?

You may need to google to see why a 25 year old Doug Gilmour had to leave the St. Louis Blues before holding him up as a bastion of respectable behaviour.