OT: Relationship Advice Thread
- Thread starter LokiDog
- Start date
Riche16
McCready guitar god
It will but again, you don't want to memorize what they said... just enough to show you're listening.
Too many people think that being quiet and waiting for their turn is listening. It isn't.
If you can comprehend it and retain it, then you're listening
It does, but it also is easily detected if you do it too much. You have to just actually listen, actually be engaged, repeat back things that were impactful or seemed important to them, don’t just parrot back 50% of what they say. Women, and honestly even business partners and clients, will see through that kind of tactic fairly quickly if it’s too overt.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Are you guys just acting out the bookstore scene in the 40 year old virgin here???
I think there’s a lot of over thinking in this thread. Which is understandable because dating is stressful, rejection sucks, failed relationships hurt, and there’s so much conflicting information out there about “proven” methodologies and fool proof tactics.
Look, in the gym there is no magic pill, or even steroid, that replaces hard work. I’ve known a ton of steroid users; sure they enhance the results of the work you do, but my point is there’s no “tricks”, there’s no way to just take this pill and you’ll get everything you wanted. Dating is the same. Anyone who is telling you, or advertising that they’ve cracked the code, figured women out, this method is fool proof, it works on all women, blah, blah, blah... it’s the same as magic muscle and diet pills in the gym. In other words, bullshit. There’s no magic pill that replaces actually working out and there’s no magic technique that replaces building a genuine connection with someone. People want shortcuts, so other people learn to effectively market something as one. It doesn’t mean it works, it’s just preying on your insecurities.
Women aren’t all the same. Even when you find women who are similar, the same tactic may not work for both. Humans are all different, no matter how much they have in common. You have to just be human too. I keep saying be yourself in this thread, and I’ll continue to. Just be yourself. You might think someone is really hot and funny and great, but if they don’t like you for you, do you really think that’s gonna work out for you? Being someone else everyday? Be genuine. Ask the questions you want answers to. Share what you feel like sharing. Listen to hear what’s being said and not just hope that in 30 minutes you’ll have asked enough questions and nodded and smiled enough that she’ll want to make out. Be a real, genuine person.
Look, in the gym there is no magic pill, or even steroid, that replaces hard work. I’ve known a ton of steroid users; sure they enhance the results of the work you do, but my point is there’s no “tricks”, there’s no way to just take this pill and you’ll get everything you wanted. Dating is the same. Anyone who is telling you, or advertising that they’ve cracked the code, figured women out, this method is fool proof, it works on all women, blah, blah, blah... it’s the same as magic muscle and diet pills in the gym. In other words, bullshit. There’s no magic pill that replaces actually working out and there’s no magic technique that replaces building a genuine connection with someone. People want shortcuts, so other people learn to effectively market something as one. It doesn’t mean it works, it’s just preying on your insecurities.
Women aren’t all the same. Even when you find women who are similar, the same tactic may not work for both. Humans are all different, no matter how much they have in common. You have to just be human too. I keep saying be yourself in this thread, and I’ll continue to. Just be yourself. You might think someone is really hot and funny and great, but if they don’t like you for you, do you really think that’s gonna work out for you? Being someone else everyday? Be genuine. Ask the questions you want answers to. Share what you feel like sharing. Listen to hear what’s being said and not just hope that in 30 minutes you’ll have asked enough questions and nodded and smiled enough that she’ll want to make out. Be a real, genuine person.
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It’s been too long since I’ve seen it to remember... but I think the idea here is to plant some trees.
East Coast Bias
Registered User
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
Let me preface by saying that I am not in any way "good at this" or an expert. But I am a teacher and my job is to read and interpret. So I'm going to do that with what @Loki Dog 74 said.
He's saying be yourself, and we hear that a lot, so what does that mean? That means, I believe, presenting the package as it is without the games or the tricks. I think you said earlier you don't like the games. I don't either. But a couple of things...
With that last paragraph there's this girl where you're keeping track of how often you talk, trying to not chase, trying to show you're independent, etc. Right there, you're sort of playing a little game to impress the girl or meet the standards that you think will impress her. Sure, there's something be said of not being desperate, but this whole "let me show her I'm too cool for school" ploy is exactly what I think Loki is saying to avoid. And this is also from my experience because I've lost a few girls I hit it off with because I was all like "let me wait to text and be aloof and shit" and it actually got me nowhere.
And then you went on a rant about not wanting to talk to this other girl and it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself it's ok more than anyone. Look, if it's not for you, you don't have to convince anyone or answer to anyone. You just do you, that's what it's all about.
So what I think is -and again, not an expert, just a reader- you're still in this mindset of how to convince women to be attracted and I think what Loki [Loki is the dog but I don't know what else to call you lol] is suggesting is that you get out of that mindset, just put yourself out there 100%, and the right ones will just be attracted.
One of my favorite sayings is by Jim Carrey, and he says: "you can fail at something you don't want, so you might as well take a chance on doing what you love." And this is coming from an absolute goofball who has always been with attractive women. It's about careers but I think we can apply it here in that, you can do the ploys and what you think they will like, but you can fail with that anyway, so fail while being yourself. The long-term gains will be better. I think that's what Loki was touching upon with the gym post.
And I completely understand where you're coming from. A lot of women like a certain archetype and that ain't me. I get that. But if you're not this cool/alpha/whatever guy, then don't do anything to try and make yourself seem that. It will actually hurt you because being real is more important than being that, especially with your target audience. And this I know because like I said, I've blown good opportunities in retrospect trying to be cool for girls who weren't looking for that. If they were, my spaz ass wouldn't have gotten a date or a phone number to begin with.
@Machinehead I’m perfectly content to be called Loki. He earned the name (several times over), but I also chose it because it’s badass and he deserved a badass name. And you summed it up fairly well.
And you summed it up fairly well.
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Riche16
McCready guitar god
I completely agree. In this particular thread I have tried to give some advise on how to be a better person and to listen. Not cheat sheet stuff, really.
Overall I’d say to NOT settle. Which is on point w what you’re saying. Until it’s right, it’s wrong & wont work no matter what one may try.
NYSPORTS
back afta dis. . .
- Jun 17, 2019
- 7,993
- 4,459
I find the topics of both Politics and Religion as good ice breakers. Sometimes ask what they believe happens when we die too. I few dozen disagreements gives you a true picture of what marriage will be with this person down the road.
Synergy27
F-A-C-G-C-E
I definitely don't consider myself qualified to give relationship advice, but I have a story that some might find useful. This happened probably 15 years ago, but I vividly remember it and it had a pretty profound impact on my subsequent behavior.
I was out at a bar with a bunch of buddies one night. My good friend's older brother was with us, and he had/has a tendency to be kind of loud and "douchey" at times. My group of guys struck up a conversation with a group of girls that was sitting nearby.
I was having a great conversation with one of them, easy flowing, interesting, etc. Then, I decided to make a comment about my friend's brother, who was talking to one of the other girls in a way that I found embarrassing. I basically called him out for being a tool. The girl I was talking to, who up until that point had given me every indication that she was into me, immediately shut me down and pretty much just walked away because I showed her everything she needed to know about me by turning on a friend for a chance at something with a complete stranger.
A very humbling experience, and I respect the shit out of that girl to this day for doing that.
The thing is, I was not, and never will be, a guy with "game". I'm an honest, nice dude, and in a moment of false confidence I betrayed that and ruined something. Don't do things that don't feel right. They won't start feeling right after more repetitions.
I was out at a bar with a bunch of buddies one night. My good friend's older brother was with us, and he had/has a tendency to be kind of loud and "douchey" at times. My group of guys struck up a conversation with a group of girls that was sitting nearby.
I was having a great conversation with one of them, easy flowing, interesting, etc. Then, I decided to make a comment about my friend's brother, who was talking to one of the other girls in a way that I found embarrassing. I basically called him out for being a tool. The girl I was talking to, who up until that point had given me every indication that she was into me, immediately shut me down and pretty much just walked away because I showed her everything she needed to know about me by turning on a friend for a chance at something with a complete stranger.
A very humbling experience, and I respect the shit out of that girl to this day for doing that.
The thing is, I was not, and never will be, a guy with "game". I'm an honest, nice dude, and in a moment of false confidence I betrayed that and ruined something. Don't do things that don't feel right. They won't start feeling right after more repetitions.
So a story which I think falls on the bucket under "don't get into your own head".
I think I mentioned either in this thread or another one I was part of a matchmaking service where you get set up with dates and then they leave feedback. One of the girls that I was set up I was smitten with. She was beautiful and her personality was amazing. Bubble but not frivolous is what I'm looking for, she was that to a tee. Then after the date, I got the feedback..." he's not confident, not just in dating but himself". A lack of confidence has been a cross I've had to bear in life and the reason my dating life has been let's just call it lacking. I really thought I overcame it mostly and then I got THAT feedback. It put in a funk for a few days. I was really distraught. "How could I be stupid enough to think I was good enough for a girl like THAT." That said here's the problem:
Here's one reason she thought that. She complimented me by telling me I'm really smart and that I'm good at math and that's something she doesn't have. As far as I could tell the reason she said it was I got a degree from Carnegie Mellon and worked in finance. I responded with, I know that there are people much smarter than me. THAT was a signal to her that I lacked confidence. But I just finished a book about Renaissance Capital and it was a book about a bunch of mathematicians doing complex analyses that I couldn't dream of doing. While I wasn't thinking about that at the time, I also got an MBA in the school with the best financial engineering program in the world. Anyway, I talked to two people, one a girl who would be theoretically my audience and her take was that it sounded like false modesty, and one a guy who never had problems with confidence and women and he took it as real modesty. So three people three different opinions. I let her own perception get to me so much, but that was HER perception, two other people had completely different perceptions. Also, the fact that she thinks and MBA from CMU and finance means you're so smart at math, shows her own limits. When you're knowledgeable you know the extent of what you don't know more than when you're not knowledgeable. So if anything by saying what I did, it was a much more sophisticated take.
Bottom line, the lesson here is don't take things people say to heart, there's a lot of nuance there, it may be their own interpretations or limitations.
I think I mentioned either in this thread or another one I was part of a matchmaking service where you get set up with dates and then they leave feedback. One of the girls that I was set up I was smitten with. She was beautiful and her personality was amazing. Bubble but not frivolous is what I'm looking for, she was that to a tee. Then after the date, I got the feedback..." he's not confident, not just in dating but himself". A lack of confidence has been a cross I've had to bear in life and the reason my dating life has been let's just call it lacking. I really thought I overcame it mostly and then I got THAT feedback. It put in a funk for a few days. I was really distraught. "How could I be stupid enough to think I was good enough for a girl like THAT." That said here's the problem:
Here's one reason she thought that. She complimented me by telling me I'm really smart and that I'm good at math and that's something she doesn't have. As far as I could tell the reason she said it was I got a degree from Carnegie Mellon and worked in finance. I responded with, I know that there are people much smarter than me. THAT was a signal to her that I lacked confidence. But I just finished a book about Renaissance Capital and it was a book about a bunch of mathematicians doing complex analyses that I couldn't dream of doing. While I wasn't thinking about that at the time, I also got an MBA in the school with the best financial engineering program in the world. Anyway, I talked to two people, one a girl who would be theoretically my audience and her take was that it sounded like false modesty, and one a guy who never had problems with confidence and women and he took it as real modesty. So three people three different opinions. I let her own perception get to me so much, but that was HER perception, two other people had completely different perceptions. Also, the fact that she thinks and MBA from CMU and finance means you're so smart at math, shows her own limits. When you're knowledgeable you know the extent of what you don't know more than when you're not knowledgeable. So if anything by saying what I did, it was a much more sophisticated take.
Bottom line, the lesson here is don't take things people say to heart, there's a lot of nuance there, it may be their own interpretations or limitations.
Roo Returns
Skjeikspeare No More
Let me preface by saying that I am not in any way "good at this" or an expert. But I am a teacher and my job is to read and interpret. So I'm going to do that with what @Loki Dog 74 said.
He's saying be yourself, and we hear that a lot, so what does that mean? That means, I believe, presenting the package as it is without the games or the tricks. I think you said earlier you don't like the games. I don't either. But a couple of things...
With that last paragraph there's this girl where you're keeping track of how often you talk, trying to not chase, trying to show you're independent, etc. Right there, you're sort of playing a little game to impress the girl or meet the standards that you think will impress her. Sure, there's something be said of not being desperate, but this whole "let me show her I'm too cool for school" ploy is exactly what I think Loki is saying to avoid. And this is also from my experience because I've lost a few girls I hit it off with because I was all like "let me wait to text and be aloof and shit" and it actually got me nowhere.
And then you went on a rant about not wanting to talk to this other girl and it sounds like you're trying to convince yourself it's ok more than anyone. Look, if it's not for you, you don't have to convince anyone or answer to anyone. You just do you, that's what it's all about.
So what I think is -and again, not an expert, just a reader- you're still in this mindset of how to convince women to be attracted and I think what Loki [Loki is the dog but I don't know what else to call you lol] is suggesting is that you get out of that mindset, just put yourself out there 100%, and the right ones will just be attracted.
One of my favorite sayings is by Jim Carrey, and he says: "you can fail at something you don't want, so you might as well take a chance on doing what you love." And this is coming from an absolute goofball who has always been with attractive women. It's about careers but I think we can apply it here in that, you can do the ploys and what you think they will like, but you can fail with that anyway, so fail while being yourself. The long-term gains will be better. I think that's what Loki was touching upon with the gym post.
And I completely understand where you're coming from. A lot of women like a certain archetype and that ain't me. I get that. But if you're not this cool/alpha/whatever guy, then don't do anything to try and make yourself seem that. It will actually hurt you because being real is more important than being that, especially with your target audience. And this I know because like I said, I've blown good opportunities in retrospect trying to be cool for girls who weren't looking for that. If they were, my spaz ass wouldn't have gotten a date or a phone number to begin with.
The rant about the girl someone was setting me up with was more for everyone else. It's not for me trying to do something like seek validation or any weird kind of insecurity of Freudian stuff. We're here to help each other. The bottom line is I don't know anyone for real on this board and most of us have not met. I want everyone to succeed and be happy of course. My answer for that situation is there's no attraction, I'm not going to pursue, final choice. The girl who wanted to set me and her friend up is now the ex-g/f of my friend so no thank you.
The friend who is far away it's a very complicated situation. The friendship is non-linear and not a normal level of development because we've never been in the same place at the same time for more than a few months. We've kept up on and off for seven years. Way too crazy to get into here but its one of those things in our social group where people are rooting for us to figure it out but it has to be natural and not forced. We spoke recently did the whole I miss you thing very open with each other about our lives. We coincidentally want to move to the same city but that's a post-Covid thing if it even gets there.
I don't text her everyday because its going to come off as needy and despite being sad a sack in this thread, I think I come off as ok on all other threads (lol some may not like my blunt ass opinions on certain players and proposals but I try to be fair and root for the Rangers to do the right thing because we all want to see Cups #5 and even #6 in our lifetime). I have my own life and a lot of responsibilities and it's my duty to help others in my social circle/work life who are struggling with covid. I never went to war or was in an interment camp. My biggest problems in life are that I can't get a girl I like a lot to like me back and my team hasn't developed a 60 point forward in almost 30 years (Yet. Still TBD with this group).
I understand the whole "be yourself" thing. Believe me. But I've been trying to be myself for 30+ years and I've got one girl who I like a lot to actually like me back and very quickly I found out she wasn't who I thought she was. All other females/women I've dated were out of convenience or we were both single and in the same place same time. What I've been told by female friends and outside observers is I'm too nice, I don't have an edge that "mess with girls" thing in my personality, I show too much interest, and I don't have the NY personality. I've also seen my alpha friends have the most success. So what that tells me is ok maybe I'm trying to go for super models or girls that are like 9s and 10s which I never do. Or maybe it is I show too much interest. Or maybe all along what my best friend has been telling me since Brad Richards signed with the Rangers is that you're not going to find a perfect match in NY and get out. He left a long time ago. So its either I'm not really being myself, I'm picking bad girls, or its not the right market for me. What's the answer?
So I've been working on "my game" not huge changes to my personality or being fake but just maybe a little more dynamic during this covid thing. Now its actually going out and applying it which is tough but we'll get there.
I'll be honest, once covid is done, love my family, friends, pizza, and sports teams, but its time to leave the Northeast once and for all.
Boris Zubov
No relation to Sergei, Joe
It sounds like you're not happy with a few things in your current life situation. When you're dealing with internal conflicts, subconsciously the energy you're putting out into the world is conflicting as well. People pick up on those vibes whether we realize it or not. Especially when you're trying to impress a woman.
If you set conditions on yourself, such as the Northeast is the reason you're not meeting the woman of your dreams, you're setting yourself up to fail. It's a defeatist attitude that really isn't true, but it will be if you believe it. All types of people in the Northeast find lasting relationships...and you can too. Once you change your train of thought.
Sometimes a change in location can help, but usually you find the same internal issues pop up when you get to where you're going. I understand the draw of leaving the Northeast, but the grass isn't always greener. Depending on where you go, you'll find that the intelligence level of your peers that you take for granted now is a distant memory. It also thins out the potential dating pool unless brain power isn't a priority or you lower your standards.
I went though a bunch of the same things you're feeling now. I did pretty well with women on a superficial level but never made that real connection I was looking for until I got right with my own internal issues. I learned along the way that if you want to find a great partner, you have to be ready to be a great partner yourself. That means sorting through the things in your head that are holding you back in life, whatever they are.
However that doesn't mean doing things you think women want or trying to be someone you aren't. Putting pressure on yourself to meet the "one" is the worst thing we do as humans. There's a woman out there for you who has all those qualities you're looking for, & she's out there trying to find you too. Until you guys meet, try to sit back, relax & enjoy the ride.
Roo Returns
Skjeikspeare No More
I've had issues with the Northeast for a very long time. Never really felt like I belong here even though I'm from here. I'd say 60% of my friends left and are doing pretty good in varying degrees.
There are absolutely things in my life I'm unhappy with. Not detrimental to the point of I can't function. I've been doing much better professionally the last few years. My colleagues always tell me how fair, kind, and especially patient I am. I'm glad that's coming off. There's always been a lack of love and understanding in my personal life. I'd say even though I have a lot of really close friends, the ones who actually get what make me tick are far and few between.
I talked about it on this thread. I really liked someone recently we had a tremendous amount in common (same goals, same movies, same humor, etc.) and she didn't see me as a romantic partner. I knew our time socially together was coming to an end so I had to say something. I had a feeling we were going to end up in that "I text you 2-3x a year to wish you happy birthday/happy (insert the holiday of her ethnicity/etc)/etc." and she'll respond cordially but thats it. It stings and I still don't feel one bit better about it so I have to deal with that and keep dealing with it.
My friend from far away doesn't see that because we don't talk about it or live in proximity.
It is what it is. I'm doing what I can to get through covid and work hard. Hopefully I can press the reset button once its done. If something here comes up great, but I'll continue working on my shit and will plan to leave in 2021 or 2022.
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I don't know if it's a matter of not being yourself but maybe more so not being comfortable being yourself. I do sense a lack of confidence. Not saying that to put you down or anything, I've been in that boat.
Don't worry about the alpha thing. It's actually been disproved across multiple species, let alone humans. Alpha/beta male dichotomy doesn't really exist. There's a ton of nuance, context, and individual experiences at play here that this false dichotomy is missing.
Yes, aggressive males do succeed because arrogance and dominance is better than submissiveness and lack of confidence, but genuine self-esteem and comfort in one's own skin rates much higher than arrogance and dominance. This is according to social science research. I think genuine confidence is something you may need to work on.
Assertiveness has shown to be one of the most attractive traits. That's not the same as aggressiveness, self-centeredness, or "edge." For example, if there's genuine interest, the assertive thing to do is go for it, not try to hide it to fit an archetype. That signals non-assertiveness and discomfort with what you're doing.
I get the "mess with girls" thing because my most successful interactions have been with girls where we can push each other's buttons. That's the "game" as it were. But that's really a chemistry thing. Different girls have different buttons and you have to find what makes her tick; you have to find little "memes" between the two of you. That requires presenting yourself wholly and assertively, observing her instead of being so self-conscious (this is advice I've gotten a lot), and genuineness (which is also a highly-rated trait). My lady friends have told me that guys who try to mess around in an inorganic way come off insulting and weird. So I would work on it as a mindset as opposed to as a skill. Be confident.
As far as leaving, if you think it will help, you do you. That's kind of the whole point. But don't expect external changes to fix everything without doing the hard internal work of having genuine self-esteem.
With that, I leave you with a real dating expert:
I accidentally swiped right before I got a chance to take a screenshot but I found my soulmate on bumble. "Equality means to me: The Rangers getting the same favoritism Crosby gets from the refs."
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
I thought the same but can I really expect her to be a Rangers fan AND stay current with the team?
Machinehead
GoAwayTrouba
YoSoyLalo
me reading HF
I’ll give you one solid piece of advice: don’t refer to women as “females”. It’s cringey.
KirkAlbuquerque
#WeNeverGetAGoodCoach
