Regular season success or player awards?

[Ziggyjoe21]

If you could choose one, would you rather see the Pens earn the top seed in the east, or would you rather see Sid or Geno lead the league in goals and/or points?

I'll be honest I rather see Sid and Geno pad their HOF resumes.

my reasons:
1) Pens are going to make the playoffs no matter what
2) Playoff seeding has no influence on playoff success. Playoff success is 50% luck and 50% being hot at the right time.
3) I think Pens fans would appreciate Sid and Geno's personal success more than a few meaningless regular season wins.


Man, hockey talk in August is really lame....

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[ColePens]

This is tough. I care so little about individual awards. I seriously don't care if they win any trophies other than the Cup. But that's because I already know Sid is the best hockey player in the league and Geno isn't that far behind. I don't need trophies to prove it, but fools on the main board need it.

I'll go for regular season success because playoff seeding can help us win the Cup. Only goal I have is the Stanley Cup. Nothing else matters.

 

[NeedleInTheHay]

Give me the Hart's and Art Ross's, as long as they make the playoffs i'd much rather watch brilliant individual performances over a few more points.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Whether people like it or not... legacies and the counting-up-of-numbers does matter when it's all said and done.

I want to see Sid and Geno have at least a couple more awesome seasons. I have a hard time imagining it, especially for one of those guys. but I'd love to see it. Things would have to change rapidly, I think. With Crosby, though... it's never an impossibility.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

This is tough. I care so little about individual awards. I seriously don't care if they win any trophies other than the Cup. But that's because I already know Sid is the best hockey player in the league and Geno isn't that far behind. I don't need trophies to prove it, but fools on the main board need it.

I'll go for regular season success because playoff seeding can help us win the Cup. Only goal I have is the Stanley Cup. Nothing else matters.

I am the opposite of you.

I have found that regular season success is virtually irrelevant to playoff success.

There is a statistical difference in seeding and success, but it is minor, and likely is more a result of the better team being higher seeded than the extra home game. The difference is fairly small in your chances of advancing historically.

My answer also depends on how you use the regular season. I would love, love, love to see the regular season used as a modified pre-season to allow the Pens to work on things for the playoffs. Different line combinations for instance. Give some kids the opportunity to grow. Rest some vets. And power play I am especially looking at you.

So for me, pad the stats of the players to a degree, work on things for the playoffs, and that is a successful regular season even if the Pens end up something like a third seed.

 

[Fordy]

individual awards. i don't care what their seed is going into the playoffs

 

[Ozz]

Seeding doesn't make a difference to me as long as the end result is commendable. I'm not a "cup or failure!" kinda guy, but I at least hope we don't go out in embarrassing fashion again. Although with last year's Cup win, it would sting less this time.

Beyond that, I'm all for individual awards at the expense of a high-seed finish.

 

[Rossi Rat]

I prefer Sid's Cup (albeit a team award) and Smythe to Kane's Lindsay/Hart.

Edit: I missed the point. Who currrrs about regular season team success. See what it got the Caps this year.

 

[Son Goku]

Sidney Crosby id like to see win at least one or two more Rosses and Harts, he was robbed of a few. Guy could be at 4 art Rosses, 4 Harts, and 2 rocket Richards.

 

[DegenX]

Since it's pretty unlikely we miss the playoffs, and only (2) President's Trophy winners have gone on to win the Cup in the last (11) seasons ... I'll go with stat padding FTW.

 

[ColePens]

Seeding doesn't make a difference to me as long as the end result is commendable. I'm not a "cup or failure!" kinda guy, but I at least hope we don't go out in embarrassing fashion again. Although with last year's Cup win, it would sting less this time.

Beyond that, I'm all for individual awards at the expense of a high-seed finish.

Ugh. I'm definitely in that boat. Not just for the Pens but for everything. Steelers, Buccos, any sport i ever play, etc. A respectable finish is still losing. I'm not saying I'll want a fire-sale if they lose, but only one team wins each year. In Pittsburgh, we are so damn lucky it's one of our teams so often.

But the stat guys/gals are bringing up good points all over. Seeding doesn't matter. I think the President's Trophy winner can admit that.

 

[SEALBound]

Making the playoffs is making the playoffs. In 10 years I won't remember if they were 2nd, 3rd, or 8th. Sid and Geno taking home a couple additional trophies...I will.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Pens can still win the Cup even if they don't finish at or near the top of their conference. Sid/Geno can't add to their trophy case if they don't finish at the top of the leader boards.

As long as it results in the Pens making the playoff (no lower than 8th in the conference), give me the individual trophies over any regular season team success..

 

[TheSniper26]

The Pens have won 4 cups in their history. They haven't been the top seed in the conference for any of them. Actually, I think this last cup was the first where they even got to the #2 seed, right? The advantage of home ice is a little overblown(and Pens fans should know it better than anyone). I'd rather see our best players get rewarded for their efforts than have the team hit some fairly meaningless spot in the standings.

 

[Ziggyjoe21]

It's really interesting how much "luck" goes into the playoffs. Most of the teams are so evenly matched that it literally comes down to bounces and inches to determine a winner.

Sid and Geno are an extension of the franchise. And in many fans' eyes, are the only reason they watch the team play. I want the star players to succeed as much as possible. Greatness in sports is mostly defined by individual awards.

With that said, I have a feeling Crosby is taking the Yzerman career path of becoming a responsible defensive player while sacrificing some of his offensive production. Shame. Fans want to see exciting scoring, not boring defense.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Years ago I would have picked regular season success, just because the playoff format was different. Now I'd pick players awards, cause no matter what you have to play the top teams from each division and I think it's pretty safe to assume we are a playoff team and seeding don't matter much no more.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

It's really interesting how much "luck" goes into the playoffs. Most of the teams are so evenly matched that it literally comes down to bounces and inches to determine a winner.

Sid and Geno are an extension of the franchise. And in many fans' eyes, are the only reason they watch the team play. I want the star players to succeed as much as possible. Greatness in sports is mostly defined by individual awards.

With that said, I have a feeling Crosby is taking the Yzerman career path of becoming a responsible defensive player while sacrificing some of his offensive production. Shame. Fans want to see exciting scoring, not boring defense.

In general I agree with you.

However in some cases teams simply are a problem that other teams can not match. Usually teams with a lot of depth like this Pens' team. At no point this year in the playoffs did I believe that the Pens were the inferior team on the ice. And honestly it was not even a slight edge. I constantly backed such feelings up with stats to show where the Pens had a decided advantage, and that edge was always the bottom six and possession numbers.

And the games played out as the stats predicted that they would. Not just for the Pens, but for around 90 percent of the games played. Much better than the seventy-five percent prediction rate in years past. Either the models are getting better (they are) or that was just a lucky bump. Likely a bit of both.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Rather have them pad their trophy cases than overextend themselves trying to get a meaningless #1 seed. Let Washington have it.

 

[ColePens]

I don't like the concept a lot of people are using in this discussion that the Pens are pretty much guaranteed to win enough for the playoffs. I do think we are a strong team, but it's basically saying sure-thing for postseason or gamble with having to make it at the end.

If you guaranteed me playoffs, just not seeding, then I'd take stats over #1 every single time. Especially with the dumb playoffs where we have to play Washington 2nd round anyway.

 

[TheSniper26]

It's really interesting how much "luck" goes into the playoffs. Most of the teams are so evenly matched that it literally comes down to bounces and inches to determine a winner.

Sid and Geno are an extension of the franchise. And in many fans' eyes, are the only reason they watch the team play. I want the star players to succeed as much as possible. Greatness in sports is mostly defined by individual awards.

With that said, I have a feeling Crosby is taking the Yzerman career path of becoming a responsible defensive player while sacrificing some of his offensive production. Shame. Fans want to see exciting scoring, not boring defense.

Fans also like to see championships and if Sid playing a more well rounded games gives them a better chance at it I don't think many would be complaining.

That said, I'm not sure Sid actually is sacrificing his offense anyway. Let's not be fooled by the Mike Johnston era where practically every guy on the roster was producing less than normal. Under Sullivan, Sid pretty much went right back to his 1.3ppg career average.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Player awards. I honestly couldn't care less about the President's Trophy, and as people have said we're almost guaranteed to make the playoffs annually.

In a couple years, when the playoffs aren't a virtual lock, I'll probably feel differently.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

I don't like the concept a lot of people are using in this discussion that the Pens are pretty much guaranteed to win enough for the playoffs. I do think we are a strong team, but it's basically saying sure-thing for postseason or gamble with having to make it at the end.

If you guaranteed me playoffs, just not seeding, then I'd take stats over #1 every single time. Especially with the dumb playoffs where we have to play Washington 2nd round anyway.

Granted there are no guarantees on anything in life. But in the NHL the Pens are one of a handful of teams who are as close as you can get to a guarantee of making the playoffs. Basically half of all NHL make the playoffs. Sure, injuries can derail a team, but the Pens would be hard to derail given their scoring depth and the number of players who could step in or up. And face it, the Pens always are the most injured team in the NHL anyways so that is nothing new.

The chances that the Pens actually miss the playoffs are very low even if they have some key injuries.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

Player awards. I'd like to see Pens players get recognized for big seasons. I would be happy if Crosby or Malkin won more Art Ross' or Harts, or if Letang could grab himself a Norris. Obviously the Stanley Cup trumps everything but why not hope for both? The President's Trophy doesn't really matter to me.