Post-Game Talk: Refs try their best to help the Sabres but it's not enough. Leafs win 5-3!

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JT AM da real deal

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Im annoyed with Reilly on the 2nd and 3rd sabres goals. On the 2nd if he's not going to 1. tie up a man or 2. block the shot, get out of the ****ing way instead of screening the goalie. On the 3rd goal he goes for a lame half ass hit at the blueline and misses, play gets behind him and were outmanned deep in our zone resulting in a goal. He made a great play to Mathews streaking in but its like he created 1 goal for and 2 against. His frequent mental lapses in our end are so frustrating!
I love Rielly's game last night. If you honestly watch game you will see Barrie is much like Gards he never goes and gets puck in his own end on the shoot in when someone is forechecking. Rielly does it every time. That is what a defensive leader does. and he is getting better over time at absorbing the hit and staying up. Just watch my comment next game. You will see it if you look for it.
 
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JT AM da real deal

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How far you are from the boards has a HUGE impact. Now which in your opinion is more dangerous...closer or farther?
It depends but when defenders are up against the wall many forwards will use their elbow because while the body is tight the head never is. So you can snap a guys neck and give a concussion more easily.

But 2 foot for board and a hit from behind is likely more devastating because the head is moving faster given more distance to travel. and then you see QUADS coming from it.
 
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saltming

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Animated GIF - Find & Share on GIPHY

Here is the difference between a two game suspension and ... nothing. You can clearly see Hyman was later in his hit, by 0.000000000001 seconds.
Good work on that gif
giphy.gif
 

Eye Test

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It depends but when defenders are up against the wall many forwards will use their elbow because while the body is tight the head never is. So you can snap a guys neck and give a concussion more easily.

But 2 foot for board and a hit from behind is likely more devastating because the head is moving faster given more distance to travel. and then you see QUADS coming from it.

Ya the hit 2 feet from the boards is way more dangerous. Kerfoot’s hit earlier if it was at a higher speed could have been devastatingly bad.

Cheers
 

Marshy

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Get Henny to ask some players about the lack of calls.

Have those players say the refs have a hard job. We respect them and they are no different than us. They are human and they make mistakes. We think we we have the best officials in pro sports..

That's the message outside the dressing room. Inside the dressing room - it's us against them. Nobody is going to help us. Let's win DESPITE the obvious bias. Use it to bond and motivate.
 
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Alerion

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The difference between the Hyman hit and the Okposo hit is that McAvoy is further from the boards, which does make it more dangerous as there's greater potential for a head injury. I'd argue that Dermott was smart to be tight to the boards for this reason, it minimizes the risk of him going head first into the boards. Otherwise, they're pretty similar hits, both late, both mostly from behind. Given that precedent, I think it's totally reasonable to expect a 1 game suspension, or at the very least a call on the ice. However, we all know the DoPS is an inconsistent farce.
 
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likecheese

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The difference between the Hyman hit and the Okposo hit is that McAvoy is further from the boards, which does make it more dangerous as there's greater potential for a head injury. I'd argue that Dermott was smart to be tight to the boards for this reason, it minimizes the risk of him going head first into the boards. Otherwise, they're pretty similar hits, both late, both mostly from behind. Given that precedent, I think it's totally reasonable to expect a 1 game suspension, or at the very least a call on the ice. However, we all know the DoPS is an inconsistent farce.
They were both bad hits also because they both involved elbows. I wasn't upset about Hyman's suspension but as usual, it's just one-way. There's a much better view of clownposo bring up his elbow and planting right into the square of Dermott's back. We're not going to get tough overnight, somebody has to teach these guys how to Pronger themselves ie. if somebody is coming at you late and you're vulnerable, get the butt end of your stick out, groin high. We've got the former head of dops running our team, yet nobody is doing anything about anything.
 

Eddo22

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Since the refs constantly screw the leafs game after game, the thread titles should be like this after just about every game. "
Refs try their best to help the non-Leaf team but it's not enough

Refs try their best to help the non-Leaf team and succeed.
 
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willmma

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Many have said it, but the missed call on the hit on Dermott was a joke. Recall Hyman getting suspended for "bumping" into MacAvoy late. The hit on Dermott much worse IMO.

Farabee just got 3 games for his late hit on Perreault. Perhaps Dermott needed to embellish and be helped off the ice for the NHL to notice the hit.





Listen to it and replace Hyman with Okposo.

 

Eb

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I love Rielly's game last night. If you honestly watch game you will see Barrie is much like Gards he never goes and gets puck in his own end on the shoot in when someone is forechecking. Rielly does it every time. That is what a defensive leader does. and he is getting better over time at absorbing the hit and staying up. Just watch my comment next game. You will see it if you look for it.
Lmao, are you really trying to say Barrie never goes and gets the puck after it's shot into our end?
 
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Tlo1

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I wanna defend Dermott but honestly shouldn’t be admiring his pass there. He had time to avoid the hit had he not done so. With that being said it was a late hit.
 

LeafingTheWay

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I love Rielly's game last night. If you honestly watch game you will see Barrie is much like Gards he never goes and gets puck in his own end on the shoot in when someone is forechecking. Rielly does it every time. That is what a defensive leader does. and he is getting better over time at absorbing the hit and staying up. Just watch my comment next game. You will see it if you look for it.

What lol, which Gardiner are you talking about ... "Gardiner never goes and gets the puck in his own end on the shoot-in"? That's just silly. I was a big Gardiner fan and he was always involved in those. Absorbing the hit was a different thing, he would shy away from those but he definitely moved the puck efficiently.

Barrie is also great at going after the puck in his own end after a shoot-in. Don't know where you got that he never does it lmao.
 
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ToneDog

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I wanna defend Dermott but honestly shouldn’t be admiring his pass there. He had time to avoid the hit had he not done so. With that being said it was a late hit.

Let's not blame the victim. As you say the hit was late. It was from behind. It was to a defenceless player. He planted his elbow to Dermott's back. And it could have been avoided.

If Leafs are not going to acquire players to respond to these hits, let's get the PP tuned up so that players think twice about taking these cheap shots. Then again, the blind refs did not even call a penalty. #AreYouKiddingMe ??
 
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JT AM da real deal

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What lol, which Gardiner are you talking about ... "Gardiner never goes and gets the puck in his own end on the shoot-in"? That's just silly. I was a big Gardiner fan and he was always involved in those. Absorbing the hit was a different thing, he would shy away from those but he definitely moved the puck efficiently.

Barrie is also great at going after the puck in his own end after a shoot-in. Don't know where you got that he never does it lmao.
They are both scared as babies ... if you played you know and you can see it ... going after a puck when you may lose it or it is close is much different then going after a puck when you have a half second on a guy. After watching Barrie as many shifts as I could after watching every one of Matty's shifts on Tuesday night it was so obvious. Watch the video of entire game and you will see it too. Just watch Barrie ONLY. Do not puck watch. Just watch Barrie. It is very hard to do if you never have done it before but you will learn it after doing it a few times. It does take away from the overall game as you miss a lot of the game.
 

Commander Clueless

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I love it when Goat shows flashes of excellence.

I feel like he could be a really good bottom sixer but he is inconsistent.


Tim-tim really looks like he's stepping up his game. Going to be tough to replace him when Moore returns.
 

JT AM da real deal

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They were both bad hits also because they both involved elbows. I wasn't upset about Hyman's suspension but as usual, it's just one-way. There's a much better view of clownposo bring up his elbow and planting right into the square of Dermott's back. We're not going to get tough overnight, somebody has to teach these guys how to Pronger themselves ie. if somebody is coming at you late and you're vulnerable, get the butt end of your stick out, groin high. We've got the former head of dops running our team, yet nobody is doing anything about anything.
Now you are going full 70s and 80s here. But you are correct if you have the time to get the butt up. Dermy did not. McBaby was completely oblivious.
 

LeafingTheWay

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They are both scared as babies ... if you played you know and you can see it ... going after a puck when you may lose it or it is close is much different then going after a puck when you have a half second on a guy. After watching Barrie as many shifts as I could after watching every one of Matty's shifts on Tuesday night it was so obvious. Watch the video of entire game and you will see it too. Just watch Barrie ONLY. Do not puck watch. Just watch Barrie. It is very hard to do if you never have done it before but you will learn it after doing it a few times. It does take away from the overall game as you miss a lot of the game.

Disagreed completely. I'm huge on microevents, so I'd like to think I'm an "expert" ( :laugh: ) at isolating players and analyzing lol. I did it with Hainsey, Zaitsev, Gardiner last year and Rielly, Barrie this year.

Maybe you're a bigger/taller guy like a Muzzin/Holl who can absorb a hit to make a play. Smaller players utilize their stick to move the puck effectively. Look across the league and almost all smallish players do this. Krug, Dumba, Dahlin, Ellis, etc all do this as well. Heck, even Karlsson does it.

Why on earth would you lose the puck AND get knocked down out of the play? I'm a smaller guy too and I would do the same. Obviously you absorb the hit if you need to, but the best option for the smaller players is to look for quick passing options (I.e which way to move the puck around the boards) and then get out of the way so that you can be a receiving option.
 

JT AM da real deal

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Disagreed completely. I'm huge on microevents, so I'd like to think I'm an "expert" ( :laugh: ) at isolating players and analyzing lol. I did it with Hainsey, Zaitsev, Gardiner last year and Rielly, Barrie this year.

Maybe you're a bigger/taller guy like a Muzzin/Holl who can absorb a hit to make a play. Smaller players utilize their stick to move the puck effectively. Look across the league and almost all smallish players do this. Krug, Dumba, Dahlin, Ellis, etc all do this as well. Heck, even Karlsson does it.

Why on earth would you lose the puck AND get knocked down out of the play? I'm a smaller guy too and I would do the same. Obviously you absorb the hit if you need to, but the best option for the smaller players is to look for quick passing options (I.e which way to move the puck around the boards) and then get out of the way so that you can be a receiving option.
OK next home game on Saturday night I am going to do a count by shift and period of number of times Barrie turns for puck when forechecked when it is dumped in to our end. You have to be in the rink live to assess it as cameras only puck watch. Come down to game yourself and do the same. It is called isolation scouting and all you do is watch Barrie. You don't watch the game. You don't watch the puck. You isolate on Barrie only. Tuesday night was first time I did it partially for Barrie (but only on shifts Matty was not one so I may have missed something). I was more focused on certain things puck control, defensive giveaways, shift lengths, faceoffs and physical involvement. But that said I only saw Rielly go back for all pucks shot into our zone which had a forecheck element to them ie no shift change. I did not count Barrie do it even 1 time over 3 periods. There were a few Barrie was closer to puck but he hestitated and let Rielly went on Barrie's side to get it.
 

Mad hatter

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I wanna defend Dermott but honestly shouldn’t be admiring his pass there. He had time to avoid the hit had he not done so. With that being said it was a late hit.
Sure but players now a days aren’t as used to getting cheap shots so they’re less likely to brace for it. The game has changed to protect players more so they aren’t excepting late hits from behind like it used to be. Those hits used to be common but luckily the NHL woke up and realized the severity of concussions. If players have to start protecting themselves against cheap shot then the NHL as fallen back into the head hunting league. The refs job is to protect the players from cheap shots and it’s disgusting that they are not.
 

LeafingTheWay

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OK next home game on Saturday night I am going to do a count by shift and period of number of times Barrie turns for puck when forechecked when it is dumped in to our end. You have to be in the rink live to assess it as cameras only puck watch. Come down to game yourself and do the same. It is called isolation scouting and all you do is watch Barrie. You don't watch the game. You don't watch the puck. You isolate on Barrie only. Tuesday night was first time I did it partially for Barrie (but only on shifts Matty was not one so I may have missed something). I was more focused on certain things puck control, defensive giveaways, shift lengths, faceoffs and physical involvement. But that said I only saw Rielly go back for all pucks shot into our zone which had a forecheck element to them ie no shift change. I did not count Barrie do it even 1 time over 3 periods. There were a few Barrie was closer to puck but he hestitated and let Rielly went on Barrie's side to get it.

Sounds good, let me know how it goes! I know for a fact I've seen Barrie make those effective plays, because that's why I've liked Barrie under Keefe and specifically called it out lol. I used to do track micro-stats with Gardiner in the defensive zone and he was always effective on those plays (contrary to what everyone thought Gardiner was doing). But you're saying even Gardiner was bad at those plays, which is really untrue to me lol. That's also why I think D like Karlsson, Krug, Girard, Dahlin, etc (I.e smallish but fantastic transition D-men) would be hated by Toronto fans and not truly appreciated for their great transition plays. Playing the body on dump-ins is not always a necessary play. Utilizing the stick and hockey IQ in the defensive zone is one of the most underrated plays IMO. Nicklas Lidstrom was a god at that and my favourite D of all time.
 

Tlo1

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Sure but players now a days aren’t as used to getting cheap shots so they’re less likely to brace for it. The game has changed to protect players more so they aren’t excepting late hits from behind like it used to be. Those hits used to be common but luckily the NHL woke up and realized the severity of concussions. If players have to start protecting themselves against cheap shot then the NHL as fallen back into the head hunting league. The refs job is to protect the players from cheap shots and it’s disgusting that they are not.
I’m not saying it wasn’t a cheap shot. It totally was but Dermott has to learn to make a pass and not admire it. There are many Players in this league that are always prepared for contact and are great at protecting themselves. Marner, Mathews and Nylander are examples of players that are great at making plays and avoiding hits.
 

Tlo1

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OK next home game on Saturday night I am going to do a count by shift and period of number of times Barrie turns for puck when forechecked when it is dumped in to our end. You have to be in the rink live to assess it as cameras only puck watch. Come down to game yourself and do the same. It is called isolation scouting and all you do is watch Barrie. You don't watch the game. You don't watch the puck. You isolate on Barrie only. Tuesday night was first time I did it partially for Barrie (but only on shifts Matty was not one so I may have missed something). I was more focused on certain things puck control, defensive giveaways, shift lengths, faceoffs and physical involvement. But that said I only saw Rielly go back for all pucks shot into our zone which had a forecheck element to them ie no shift change. I did not count Barrie do it even 1 time over 3 periods. There were a few Barrie was closer to puck but he hestitated and let Rielly went on Barrie's side to get it.
Wow you must be great to watch hockey games with.
 

Gallagbi

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OK next home game on Saturday night I am going to do a count by shift and period of number of times Barrie turns for puck when forechecked when it is dumped in to our end. You have to be in the rink live to assess it as cameras only puck watch. Come down to game yourself and do the same. It is called isolation scouting and all you do is watch Barrie. You don't watch the game. You don't watch the puck. You isolate on Barrie only. Tuesday night was first time I did it partially for Barrie (but only on shifts Matty was not one so I may have missed something). I was more focused on certain things puck control, defensive giveaways, shift lengths, faceoffs and physical involvement. But that said I only saw Rielly go back for all pucks shot into our zone which had a forecheck element to them ie no shift change. I did not count Barrie do it even 1 time over 3 periods. There were a few Barrie was closer to puck but he hestitated and let Rielly went on Barrie's side to get it.
Puck retrieval on a dump in is something the cameras catch because it follows the puck. There may be a few instances here and there which aren't well captured, but those are few and far between.
 
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